[KayDee]

Sending strength to you LC - you are going to learn so much about yourself, how much you have to offer the world, how much other people appreciate you and how much you are loved. Happy hols ❤️

[Reinventing]

This^^^^^

[Flummoxed]

Sending hugs, LC, and looking forwarding to hearing about all your new adventures upon your return! 💗

[LC]

Hi All,
Thought I would update. It’s been awhile.
The kids and I had a good Christmas together and New Year’s Eve.
Although strangely different, this year the kids and I seemed closer.
S28 bought a new Toyota Corolla. He is teaching S21’s best friend how to drive.  S21 moved into his new apartment and his friend will move in with him when he saves up enough rent money. 
I am teaching 3 kids how to drive. On Thursdays, we go driving at a church parking lot. I think everyone in town has practiced driving there at one time or another, 😄.

I am earning a small side income. My intuition told me not to get an official salaried job yet.  Turns out I was right to heed my intuition.

H bought a new 4 door 2024 Nissan pick up truck.  He brought it over to show the kids.  The two littlest did not go outside to look at the truck. I didn’t make them go outside, neither did I stop the. D15 and the two oldest adult children went outside and looked.
D15 told me that H said he is planning on buying a house. He wants to buy a solid concrete house.
He hasn’t had the kids over to his place since the beginning of November.
So, last Friday morning MLCer sent this text:

“I think that you were right that we are going to need to have lawyers help us with the paperwork.  I don’t think that with as little time and knowledge as I have that we could do it adequately.
I was hoping to have all the debt paid off before we started the process, but there is still about $12,000 to go that I need to have paid off before June, and I’m sure that I will have to pay taxes this year also. 
I’m wanting to move into a house instead of this stupid apartment but if I got a mortgage for a house it would just make things more complicated at this time.

I hope you and the kids are well.”

Keep in mind I had put down a retainer for a lawyer, regarding a legal separation, because he dumped bills off over at our house, without notice. Some were overdue and he only provided $800 for groceries and bills. 
I got a refund on my deposit, when he told me how much debt he was in and how poor his health was. I had told him that as long as we could communicate politely regarding financial needs, Iand we received adequate funds, I wouldn’t file anything.
We have been receiving $1600/month plus a well funded HSA.

This morning I answered back, asking what he meant by “process” and “paperwork”.

His reply was, “our divorce”.
I asked, “When will you file?”
He replied, “I don’t know.”

I strongly suspect OW, so much evidence points to this. I’m strongly tempted to let him know what I suspect. I should probably wait.
I also know I can’t beg or cling, I need to let go of the rope.
I replied, “Let me know when you do.   I need to go and clean the laundry room, now from him.
I haven’t heard back. Maybe it was too snarky. I don’t know.  My thinking at the time was that I can’t let this be the center of my universe. I wouldn’t be able to function otherwise..
I’m feeling a tiny bit shaky at the moment. I need to eat and breathe. lol
I will be back later today

[LC]

I also texted him and told him, If you ever want to talk and need someone to listen , I am here.

I do feel he is in a bad place and I do feel concern for him. I can’t offer him help. I can only offer a sympathetic ear.

[OffRoad]

I will caution once again. I don't know the rules of where you live, but where I live, if a spouse purchases a vehicle and takes out a loan, both spouses are liable for the loan even if one spouse knew nothing about it.(and I think I mentioned cars end up collateral damage quite a bit). Hopefully he magically had enough cash to pay for it.

Please take this in the spirit it is intended. You often sound like you make your and your kids needs smaller than your H. Like you don't want to bother or trouble poor H in debt with such poor health, but he can buy a brand new vehicle and you and the kids are living on what is considered poverty level income, even if your H is paying the house payment. Please make sure you aren't just "getting by" and have enough for emergencies. Again, ask me how I know. I hadn't realized I had made my needs so small, but I had. My xh never paid a penny of child support, and I regret not going after that. S and I made do, but neither of us should have had to worry when he needed new clothes, a car broke down or a repair came up. I went into debt making sure he got the high school things his sister got, and I should not have had to do that.

I know you have to do what is right for you. But your H is not looking out for your best interests right now so you need to. So glad your kids have you for their sane parent.

[Treasur]

I also texted him and told him, If you ever want to talk and need someone to listen , I am here.

I do feel he is in a bad place and I do feel concern for him. I can’t offer him help. I can only offer a sympathetic ear.

You may want to muse lightly on why you did that and feel that way, given the circumstances. He has left you in difficult financial circumstances, bemoans his lot and yet turns up to show off his new car and talk about his future house plans…. whilst I imagine you could no more buy a shiny new car than fly to the moon. Is he giving you a sympathetic ear? Or indeed sympathetic actions? Probably not, and I think it’s wise for all of us to pause and consider how reciprocal our relationships actually are, all kinds of relationships tbh. And why you feel a desire to listen sympathetically when you and your kids are collateral damage from his actions? As my gran used to say, it’s good to be fair and open-minded, but not so much that your brain falls out lol.

Not being judgmental…most of us have walked in your shoes. Why? I think there’s just a time when we honestly believe that what we do and say can fix or save a situation more than it usually turns out to do, that what we do influences someone else more than it does bc it used to. That’s a pretty normal part of the LBS journey imho, seeing the real limits of our influence.

The deeper reason perhaps is that we are playing catch up, that they are still to some degree ‘our’ person so it’s difficult to adjust to the idea that we are no longer ‘their’ person. That, for whatever reason, they have chosen to resign from that role and fire us from it. And we tell ourselves that we know them best or love them most, or that no longer seeing them as ‘our’ person is somehow abandoning them. But tbh you can’t abandon someone who has chosen to leave, can you? And inherent in any divorce is that you are no longer each others’ ‘person’ when life is hard….whether emotionally or practically….that’s the choice he is making/has made….time will tell how that works out for him.

But it takes most of us a little time to catch up to that changing reality. And tbh a lot of us women have spent decades with men who outsourced their emotional care to us so it’s a tough habit to break. You may well be right that your h is struggling emotionally, idk, but I would suggest that a fairly predictable effect of his choices is that, if he needs a sympathetic ear or any emotional support, he will have to figure out how to get it from someone or something else. (And usually they do lol) Bc he fired you from that role in his life.

I’m not saying you have to be nasty or uncivil….just that you might want to consider why you still feel you should meet part of the job description you’re being unceremoniously fired from? And whether your sympathetic ear can be deployed more usefully with other people and in other places?

In a way, the value of asking oneself those questions is not really about him at all….most likely what you do or don’t do won’t make any real difference to his path at all. It’s about YOU, about what you think and feel, about the role and responsibilities and boundaries that work best for you moving forward. And thinking about those things can make a real difference to how you go about your life and find your new place in your world….so worth a pause to consider maybe.

[LC]

OffRoad and Treasur,
I feel like such an idiot. I don’t know how to shut off the sympathy faucet. I just feel that he has so screwed himself up. I know I can’t change that. I really need to go full detachment. I guess I need to figure out why it is I haven’t completely.
Regarding his debt, I thought that if a loan was in his name, it was his responsibility.  I worry that if I renew the process of separation, that I would end up with half of his debts as I would in a divorce.  I also worry about how the little kids would feel about my initiating legal action against their Dad. 
And, I am worried about this process being really expensive and taking years.  Alot of folks on here end up having to sell their homes. I don’t want us to lose our family home. I worry about going into debt with legal fees. 
I guess I need to weigh both sides. I need to be honest with myself. He is moving on with his life and I need to be honest with myself about the reality that I married a monster and I was able to appease him for only so long. I need to look at what the older kids are telling me with their actions.
1.  They appear to be done mourning his departure from our lives.
2. They haven’t been sharing their good news with him (new cars, apartments, etc.)
3. The 2 littlest haven’t been asking why he doesn’t visit.

I guess I need to make the best decision here. He mentioned divorce. In a divorce, we are more likely to lose our home. In our county, if we get  legal separation, we go through mediation.  We will be more likely to keep our home.
I guess I need to get a backbone and just finish this.
MLCer is one of 6 kids and 4 of them have been divorced. The only one not divorced is on antidepressants.
Thanks for the kick in the backside guys. I needed it.
Dorry for the choppy sentences. It’s 5:30 am here and I haven’t had my coffee yet.

[KayDee]

So, last Friday morning MLCer sent this text:

“I think that you were right that we are going to need to have lawyers help us with the paperwork.  I don’t think that with as little time and knowledge as I have that we could do it adequately.
I was hoping to have all the debt paid off before we started the process, but there is still about $12,000 to go that I need to have paid off before June, and I’m sure that I will have to pay taxes this year also. 
I’m wanting to move into a house instead of this stupid apartment but if I got a mortgage for a house it would just make things more complicated at this time.

I hope you and the kids are well.”

I completely agree with the others, and want to add, by stating the obvious - this, above, is all about him, and what works for him - it's all I I I.  From experience, I know the dread of this kind of email. It's like death from a thousand (paper) cuts. I can also tell you from my experience that, something massive lifted for me when I took back control of my life and filed for divorce. Before this, I was on tenterhooks waiting for the next 'thing', and none of these things gave me any thought at all.  I get that divorce is devastating, but it really has to been seen as a separate issue from the MLC - to support our financial (and mental) well-being, and that of the children. While you dangle on the hook, you will will gradually become worn down.
Perhaps it's time to consider reinstating that lawyer.

BTW - 'stupid apartment'  how old is he? 12? Do I hear a teenie weenie violin?

[Treasur]

I would add - please please don’t beat yourself up, especially when life is giving you a bit of a kicking. Turn that sympathetic ear towards yourself. Be kind and fair towards yourself - you did the best you could based on what you knew then. Not a single one of us chose this path and most of us never imagined we would find ourselves with a spouse that did.

It’s pretty hard to conceive of the inconceivable until we have to. That’s normal for we humans, I think, about all kinds of things. And then when we see things differently, we reach a point where we can’t unsee them and it gets easier to act differently.

I think you need to go back and get some more detailed legal advice. Your fears are not crazy and there may be limits to what you can and cannot protect from these circumstances. And of course it depends on how the law works where you live. What I will say as a general principle is that financially isolating yourself against these circumstances and actions of someone with a habit of debt is usually a wise choice.