[stayed]

Over time, sensing the discomfort, I avoid going to places where she would withdraw.

I would stop going out with friends over the years because when I came home, there was this withdrawal... I don't want to say there will be hell to pay, because there wasn't...  she would just not be as nice, and not talk...  that is passive aggressive...  she had me whipped and controlled, and I didn't even know it.

I knew it was there, but accepted it, and didn't even acknowledge it.  I wanted to avoid conflict.

Oh my goodness, this whole comment Hobo screamed at me.  I have never, even now, almost 6 years after reconciliation, actually understood this "passive aggressiveness" everybody spoke of.  OMG, I totally see it now.  The situation you described above was TOTALLY mine. 

I too stopped going to my parents or family, with my h.  As I found his withdrawal insulting and bad mannered.  Quite frankly, I was always ashamed of his rudeness.  Not sure, whether I stopped going to protect myself from the embarrassment and shame I felt at his rudeness, to protect him... or to protect my family, who did not deserve his ignorant disregard for them.  My family, are the salt of the earth types.  Kind to everybody.  Never judged your friends, if they are friend(s) of yours, that is good enough for them... you are accepted and welcomed.  He was so rude! 

He isn't anymore.  Quite surprising how different they can be, once they become aware, THEY ARE NOT GOD... that the sun does not rise and shine over their heads.  That there are some really fine people out there, who make you look like a selfish, ignorant A-hole.  I really do think my h has been HUMBLED... and to be honest... as you can see, he NEEDED to be.

Everything about this crisis has been humbling, which in my opinion, never hurt anybody.  A little reality check now and then.  Mind you, this one was pretty EXTREME... nobody will ever convince me this was needed.  Although, in regards to myself, I feel I have been changed permanently, so perhaps, I needed something this drastic... shucks!!! 

hugs Stayed

[Phoenix]

When you've been together for a quarter of a century, and maybe have children together, house, business and any number of other things and combined hopes and dreams.  And when the person who has been so close to you throughout all of this starts to withdraw, you feel it.
You ask what's going on for them - and they fob you off.  You are confused.
They detach some more - you ask again, and you get the same fobbing off.

They get angrier and angrier, and spend less and less time with you and your kids (if you have them), and doing all of the things that they used to do - and then, the piece de resistance - they announce that they are leaving!!!  Just like that.  And they go.
Of course they are going to think we are controlling when they want to escape and deny responsibility for the life that we had together.  It's their perception of our survival response. 

Who in their right mind wouldn't be asking 'controlling' questions?   Who wouldn't be trying to make sense of the situation and ask them to explain themselves.  Who would just say 'that's nice honey - off you go.  Have fun'.
I believe this is often a chicken and egg thing.  Which came first?  Their MLC behaviours and detachment, or our 'control'?

I was just going to say this exact thing, Kikki, when I saw your post and thought, "How sweet of her to have read my mind again and put it into such lovely words. 

My H never called me controlling (I was told I was too smart, too deep, and like to connect with people).  Huh?!  

BUT, I will say that other points H did mention were in direct response to his MLC behavior, before I knew it was MLC. He was a husband and father detaching from his child and spouse and acting bizarre on top of it. As Kikki said, anyone in a committed relationship who would like to keep it that way, would take notice and try to address it. 

And I too found H to be the angry, bitter, controlling one (with our daughter also) even if some of it was passive aggressive. I agree with taking a good long look at ourselves and working on areas we can grow in, but caution may be in order when it comes to taking on more blame than the MLCer already places on us. We really cannot control them and only hindsight is truly 20/20.

Phoenix

[crazyjourney]

Its always intertesting to read what peoples husbands have said to them, they are all so similar.

Although I got very little monster I did at one point get you are all about me, me, me, goodness that one at the time had me thinking was I really and I he almost had me convinced then I thought hang on a minute you have just described yourself not me.

H hadnt always been a me, me, me, person but has definately been showing those traits since mlc, for all the heartache I have suffered I have to be honest I still find this whole thing facinating (hope that doesnt make me sound sick) I still have hated every minute of it, but to actually read the stories here and be witness to the same kind of madness I think is where the facination comes in, maybe that is the wrong word I dont want to come across as sadistic perhaps intrigue would be a better word.

Lets continue to be intrigued folks its easier on ourselves than believing we had anything to do with this.

x

[stayed]

I agree with taking a good long look at ourselves and working on areas we can grow in, but caution may be in order when it comes to taking on more blame than the MLCer already places on us. We really cannot control them and only hindsight is truly 20/20.

ABSOLUTELY AGREE!  I am delighted with the person that came out of this horrific experience.  Stunned to be honest.  I honestly would not have expected to see such drastic changes in myself, especially the way they came about. 

The truth for me Phoenix, is that the CHANGES were made for me... little old me!!!  I do not get as angst, angry, distressed by what others say and do but when and if I do, I speak up and say so, to the PERSON who has caused my angst... not some poor defenseless person who had nothing to do with it.  I don't get involved in my children's, friends, relatives woes, I listen, discuss and let them find their own way out of their situations.  Pretty much like I do here.  I don't know everything, I know I don't, heck, I don't need to.  Now, I read, think, suggest or relate how it went down for me and I let it go.  When I do find myself becoming too involved, I remove myself for a few days.  Back away from the flame, from that NEED to FIX!!! HEHEHE.  Man, that is strong in us LBS's hehehe.

I was not for ONE MINUTE suggesting we take on ANY MORE BLAME then what we are truly responsible for.  Like you, I think we must be very, very careful about accepting fault.  Sure we were not perfect, we all know that.  We contributed to the discontent within the marriage, we were not deliriously happy either.  That being said, we didn't run out and happen to fall in love with somebody else, or happen to fall into our spouses best friends bed... or anybodies bed for that matter.  That doesn't make us saints, I suspect it could HAPPEN to most anybody, if they were not AWARE ( I think their lies the truth), we were not SO arrogant as to think it could not happen to us.  The point is, we didn't do it.

So, in regards to their CRISIS... that is "THEIR" problem!  NOT OUR'S!  That, I know for certain.

hugs Stayed...

[Phoenix]

Very much agreed, Stayed and All.
I was not suggesting that anyone was blaming the LBS (except the MLCer ). I was commenting about the the questioning that seems to go on within the LBS, and even some of the "Relationship Expert" advice out there.

The LBS is trying so hard to make sense of nonsense and undo the horror, that we self-analyze and take to heart every word the MLCer (and counselors, etc.) says at times--dissecting and obsessing over it, often concluding (even if only temporarily) that we are more to blame or have more control than we do. I think this is also a self-preservation tactic of sorts. If we can believe it is our fault then that means we can change ourself and fix everything. The fact that we can't fix it merely by changing ourselves, is a good indicator it is not all our fault.  No one is perfect and the self journey is critical), but I say this as a reminder to be careful about our own LBS tendency to place more blame or control on our own shoulders. This, ultimately, is the journey of the MLCer.
Hugs,
Phoenix

[kikki]

I think this is also a self-preservation tactic of sorts. If we can believe it is our fault then that means we can change ourself and fix everything. The fact that we can't fix it merely by changing ourselves, is a good indicator it is not all our fault.

That's a really good point about this being a self preservation tactic of sorts.

I remember a friend saying to me, your Counsellor is a counsellor, not a sage. (when I was aghast at something that he had said to me).

I think ultimately it is learning all that we can, from many different sources, but at the end of the day, we are the ones with intimate knowledge of ourselves, and how we want to live our lives. That I believe, is one of our biggest lessons.  There are no experts.

[stayed]

The LBS is trying so hard to make sense of nonsense and undo the horror, that we self-analyze and take to heart every word the MLCer (and counselors, etc.) says at times--dissecting and obsessing over it, often concluding (even if only temporarily) that we are more to blame or have more control than we do. I think this is also a self-preservation tactic of sorts. If we can believe it is our fault then that means we can change ourself and fix everything. The fact that we can't fix it merely by changing ourselves, is a good indicator it is not all our fault.  No one is perfect and the self journey is critical), but I say this as a reminder to be careful about our own LBS tendency to place more blame or control on our own shoulders. This, ultimately, is the journey of the MLCer.
Hugs,
Phoenix

I completely agree Phoenix... a very wise observation.  I can see how an LBS could decide the fault was all theirs, thereby fix themselves and they have fixed their partner.  Thank you for bringing that to our attention.  WE must never forget, that that is totally false.  We can ONLY fix ourselves.  The MLCer is the only person who can fix him/her.

Hugs Stayed

[stayed]

I think ultimately it is learning all that we can, from many different sources, but at the end of the day, we are the ones with intimate knowledge of ourselves, and how we want to live our lives. That I believe, is one of our biggest lessons.  There are no experts.

This is the truest thing EVER said!  The sooner we learn and accept that, the better off we all will be.

hugs Stayed

[hobo1]

Crzyjourney-

Even though this is the most painful experience I've ever had in my life, I too find MLCer fascinating!  The way the go according to the script, how very similar their actions are....  It truly is amazing.  Despite different backgrounds, and different countries, they all seem to behave similarly.

It does sound sadistic doesn't it?

As MLC is basically temporary depression, I suppose depression is also known globally....  but basically it's a disease of westernized culture isn't it?  I'm not sure if there are many folks going through depression or MLC in the jungles of Africa.

[Thundarr]

Hey TB,

How would someone know if a person in Africa was going through it?  I also don't think it happens there, but how would we ever know?  I remember OP telling me about a fellow LBSer from Egypt whose W was MLC.  Funny thing is that D is illegal there and one or both of them could be killed for it.  Kind of adds a different twist to "Eat, Pray Love" doesn't it?  What if this happened in the ancient times?  MLCers would be fed to lions or burned at the stake as witches (makes you wonder, huh?).  I was thinking today about how much impact 9/11 had on our generation and whether or not unresolved existential issues stemming from that might have alot to do with what our spouses are going through.  I think we all felt vulnerable and mortal on that day, and the subsequent mass hysteria brought upon my the media sure as heck didn't help us to calm down and realize life would be okay.  Just a random thought, but I do suspect there being some sort of link between 9/11 and the high number of MLCers now.