[BonBon]

DGU,

Perhaps a bit of an explanation: 

One thing that was unusual about my husband during this whole thing is that he always knew and admitted this was (is) a midlife crisis.  He actually planted the idea in my head early on when I had no idea what was going on.  There were certainly times when he bristled if I refered to an "MLC" because he was embarrassed but he never once denied it. 

At other times he would refer to this term on his own and so I think that he actually had some sort of clarity about what was going on despite his fog or lack of ability or motivation to do anything about it. 

He was a low energy MLCer and didn't lay waste to everything in his life as some do (though certainly enough waste laying went on...but I digress)....so maybe that clarity he had is why he was low energy...or perhaps being low energy afforded him the clarity...I don't really know which. 
Not even sure it applies at all but its a thought.

Either way, I think that a self admitted statement that put him in an obviously negative light, admitting that he was going through something afforded to him because he has a relatively comfortable life, is quite honest and insightful.  With all the bravado and nonsense that I heard, this was the one thing that seemed to be achingly truthful and the only time I saw any sort of shame and admission.  Though I know better than to believe most things coming from an MLCer, I don't think I could dismiss moments of clarity such as this.  I think many MLCers have these insights...I just doubt they often admit them while in full MLC.

Bon 

[Rollercoasterider]

My H has repeatedly told me he would not have had an MLC were he in a place that finding food or avoiding slaugher took up all of his waking moments.  That's coming right from the horses mouth...so why shouldn't I believe it?

From RCR's article What is A Midlife Crisis?
I find self-reporting to be possibly the least reliable source--since MLCers deny they are having an MLC, during the crisis and may deny their past experience once the crisis is complete.

OMG.... please!!!!  So now we TOTALLY disregard any evidence from the actual source of the disturbance.  OMG.   PLEASE!  After all, WHAT WOULD THEY KNOW?

I want to clarify that comment.
Stayed has a point. But most MLCers--or former MLCers--do not self-report as having had or being in MLC. Some of the surveys taken to determine the prevalence of MLC are based on asking questions of men (some may include women) either years after the MLC age range or perhaps within it. They ask if looking back, the men thought they had an MLC.

Well, looking back Sweetheart would answer in the affirmative, but come on guys, how can he not given what happened to us AND that we reconciled and what I'm doing now. But he might not be able to describe the experience--not as I have described it (ironic). And if I'd divorced him or not Stood and he divorced me...what would he say then? If he were regretting the situation and wanting me back, maybe he'd answer in the affirmative, if not, his answer would likely be NO--a big NO.

What I feel lacks credibility in self-reporting is using the answers to determine the prevalence of MLC. Most (former) MLCers still deny or don't know they had one. That doesn't mean the few who say they had an MCL are dismissed. They may be the few lights of insight. But they may also be the milder cases and so they may lack the insight of the worst case scenarios-or not, just guessing about them being milder.
And many early MLCers do self-report. They are just tossing out excuses and possibilities, but they don't dwell on the idea and as they go deeper they move on to the teenager level where they are fine and know everything and were wrong before when they suggested MLC.

Think of it like an addict. Do alcoholics deny they are alcoholics?
Yes
Do they all deny for all time?
Certainly not, acceptance is a step to recovery.
But what data should we use to determine the prevalence of alcoholism? Should we ask everyone and use the results as reliable data--knowing that those not in recovery deny?
And if we want to know what an alcoholic is like in the throes of addiction--away from recovery and in most cases firmly entrenched in denial--who do we ask?
Do we ask an observer--spouse, sibling, parent, offspring...?
Do we ask the alcoholic in recovery who can look back?
Do we ask the alcoholic in the throes?

In the case of addiction, a recovering addict may or may not be able to offer insight into their state during addiction--more than some MLCers.
And caregivers can offer insight with a different perception.
But we the data from the denyers is unreliable. DUH

MLC is not addiction in the true sense--since an alcoholic will always have an addiction toalcohol and it will always be one day at a time. MLC is a phase and hopefully once an MLCer comes through, they are really through. But that means they don't have to come to a place of recovery fro their denial. They may go Liminal, but it is more subjective. With alcoholism the problem is booze--though ther emay be many root issues. But with MLC there is not a core problem in the same literal manner. The MLCer finds their Self, maybe there's an epiphany and wake up Friday having gone to sleep Wednesday and missed Thursday--the MLC Thursday is a blur.

So I do find self-reporting to lack credibility...but really I mean that about those who deny it, not those who admit it. Former MLCers who acknowledge they had a crisis may have valid insight; it's just that those guys are rare.

[stayed]

My husband never admitted to MLC during his crisis.  In fact, he would sneer when that possibility was even mentioned and become quite "monstrous".  It was after we reconciled that he admitted it could have been an MLC.  Quite frankly, I felt and certainly told him, that it seemed pretty convenient to me, that "suddenly" he could see he was in a crisis, when throughout the whole ordeal, he mocked and sneered, if I so much as suggested such a possibility.  He can see my point. 

I agree about the addiction stuff RCR, but I am not talking about that part of it.  I think most RECOVERED addicts see what they were like.  I am a recovering Nicotine addict, I now see what I was like but at the time, I offered up every excuse in the world why "now" was not a good time to quit.  If I had never quit, would I still be offering excuses, MOST LIKELY?  If my h had not reconciled with me, would he be thinking he had a crisis, I tend to think YES. 

I have spoken to recovered MLCer's who lost their wife/husband, family and severe financial loss, and ALL of them, wish it had not turned out as it did.  Each of them have told me, that to this day, they know their original spouse was the best "mate" for them.  If they could have done things differently, or if they could have a "re-do", they would not have forsaken their spouse.  In all of their cases, their spouses had MOVED ON.  This was/is not the case, with couples who simply divorced. Any of my friends who divorced due to irreconcilable differences, have no regrets.  In fact, most of them are quite happily remarried and have remained friends with their X's.

I understand you have done the research RCR, I am not arguing with you about your conclusions.  I simply feel that the MLCer's do know, do understand what they went through and that in the end, when they are FINALLY at peace with themselves, they KNOW what they have experienced.  Better then you or I, who have never been through a mid life crisis.

I must disagree with you on this RCR, I will and do TRUST the words from my husbands mouth, over anything you or anybody else has to say.  My h is not a man to discuss his "feelings/personal experiences", for him to actually come forward and express his thoughts is unique in itself.  The whole experience has left him perplexed and questioning.  I believe he is still processing!

Former MLCers who acknowledge they had a crisis may have valid insight; it's just that those guys are rare.

Oops went back and reread your whole comment and saw this!  Guess most of my disagreement with you was not a disagreement hehehe... as mine does acknowledge he had a crisis and he does have some very valid "insight", which he shares sparingly. 

I must say though, I just HATE the way DGU throws out your FINDINGS as though they are the LAST and FINAL answer to EVERYTHING concerning MLC.  I do not believe for one moment then any ONE person, has totally BROKEN THE CODE on this thing called MLC.
Hugs Stayed

[Trustandlove]

I for one am often glad for DGU's reminders, I don't take them as the last and final word on MLC, but more as a reminder that this IS mlc.  They serve to calm me when I get agitated, and  let me think straight again and get on with life. 

And you are right, stayed, no one person has unlocked the final code, as each case, much as it shares broad similarities, in the end is individual. 

[crazyjourney]

Just want to add my 2 cents worth.

When my h left for a short while the first time (I think I dragged him back from tunnel) afterwards once or twice he said things like did I really say that and did I really do that, also our youngest son was doing his exams at the time and I have to say I couldnt believe his timing about deciding to leave, any normal person would have hung on a while longer so as not to disturb sons studies wouldnt they. However at that time I knew nothing of mlc.

Fast forward to this time round which obviously has gone full blown and when we tried to discuss things in the begining when my head was realing one of the things h said was I dont know call it a midlife crises or whatever but blah blah blah, interesting isnt it. I never said anything at the time because again I didnt have a clue and I havent mentioned mlc since, but he did metion it that one time.

Thought I would mention these things as it is all more information for us to piece together, not so great that I got a second shot at it though eh!

x

[JAG]

RCR,

I read this thread and ralized that when my H told his best friend "what can I say, I guess I am in MLC" I now realize that this was H trying to give an explanation for his behaviors and for him to give himself some peace of mind....I guess now that he can point his finger at MLC he doesn't have to point it towards himself....I guess I am just at the beginning of this and I better start moving on with my life so that my children have the best possible childhood...he is not even deep in it....my H is simply at the beginning (and knowing his personality, he will most likely be in it for a VERY long time....maybe the next time we see each other I will have one strand of grey hair...he gets more grey hair by the day...hehe....)

[OnMyJourney]

5 days before h left he kept saying he felt like he was in a fog and felt like a ship adrift at sea
A few days later h seemed to have a nervous breakdown and said had an urge to run
In those earlier few days we joked about him having a midlife crisis.
H laughed and said it couldn't be because he hadn't bought a red sportscar.
The day of that conversation although he was very troubled about how he was feeling  there was NO indication that he was thinking about leaving our marriage. 

H saw an IC  the day before he left
When he came home from IC he said she told him he was depressed and in a midlife crisis.
H left the next day and in the months following when I would calmly try to get him to consider that he may be depressed he could not/would not acknowledge it

16 months after BD H  told me he thought he had been depressed and may still be.

OMJ

[BonBon]

When and if they admit it is/was an MLC, it can go either way.  Even if they know it is in fact an MLC, it is an embarrasing term...because most people do think of an MLC as some idiot with a young honey on his arm and a sportscar in the driveway.  No one wants to be thought of as that...even though that is the truth in some cases.  So it doesn't surprise me many MLCers would reject the term.  It also implies something temporary which doesn't back up their typical claims of knowing what they want after all these years, or finally finding their permanent happiness right?
So I think that's why man of them reject what is so obvious to the rest of us.

It can be good for them to realize it while its occuring because it can at times reign them in a bit or keep them from being too, too, too depressed...better to know what is going on than wonder why you feel so lousy.

On the other hand, my H has acknowledged it from the get-go but being a crafty MLCer, he has used it as an excuse from time to time as well.  I would say this or balk at that and he would say "well, you know what the problem is, I'm having an MLC!" as if this gave him license to act like a jackbutt with no accountability.

I will always maintain and no one will ever convince me otherwise (sorry to sound like an MLCer) that if you were unsure where your next meal was coming from or had to fight just to stay alive, your midlife transition would not wind up a midlife crisis.   So when I hear some psychologist, writer, whatever, trying to in any way blame the spouse, my head nearly explodes.  THAT kind of thinking is why MLCers have been able to justify their actions to begin with...its NEVER THEIR fault, right?




 

[JAG]

BonBon,

I sometimes feel the same that if they didn't have the financial means to run and run and run, they would be less likely to get into crisis mode....back in the olden days (post war in europe) no one had the luxury to not go to work or quit their jobs or not provide for their family. Our society today with the idea of immediate gratification and with the financial means has allowed these MLCers to flourish and run...it is no surprise that my H's parents who are quite elderly cannot even start to understand him and are in complete shock (his actions are also affecting their health and he could care less....he says they are being over dramatic...it is not a big deal to walk away from family if that is what "HE WANTS"....always all about them)!

[Thundarr]

http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2011/06/23/why-so-many-baby-boomers-are-getting-divorced/

Taking RCR's suggestion, I'll begin this thread by weighing in on my opinions first.  While I'm more Baby than Baby Boomer, there are many here who this will apply to and have a better perspective on this than me due to experience.  I think the author makes some good points but I also struggle with their assertions as to why the divorce rate has doubled in the over-50 group.  I disagree with communication being the number 1 issue although it does play a part for sure.  I don't see where the author acknowledges that society encourages selfishness and personal gain rather than commitment to values and another person.  I also don't think that perfecting divorce will improve marriages either.

"A really healthy marriage is hard to puncture, but one that is on somewhat-shady ground is very easy to puncture. It really gets back to the individuals and how they feel about infidelity based perhaps on their beliefs, value system and background. Infidelity is used as a catalyst reason for ending a marriage 50-70% of the time."

In this paragraph I again think the author doesn't completely get it.  Rock solid marriages can be crumbled very easily as just about anyone on here would testify.  In fact, given all that I have learned from this past year I don't know what I would recommend to newlywed couples to prevent D down the road.  I thought I had all my bases covered, but as I was thinking tonight I can now say that my W left me over a year ago and I'm still not sure why.  I am a card-carrying member of the "Cult of MLC" but all I really have in the end is speculation and no tangible proof or tests.