[SSG]

Publis is public. The MLCers is out in the open with OW/OM. They attend social events together, they often live together, etc. Most MLCers affairs become public. They tend to start in the hidding but unlike other affairs soon the LBS is put aside and the MLCer is all over with OW/OM.

If you read around the threads, you will see that most of us have a spouse with a very public OW/OM. Many of or MLCers do not live with us, they live with OW/OM and have trasfered what used to be marital life to OW/OM.

Hmmmm.........I don't know that H will make it public He has no intentions of moving and thus far he has not brought her around family. I know all of this can change. I think he may be raking her around his 'new' friends but I'm not sure. If H keeps it like this it is going to last a really long time

Hi Searching.

From one of my journals and sorry, did not write down where I found it (could be from HS website):

"Getting caught cheating does not encourage the MLCer to get help and end the relationship with OW. It provides the necessary environment for BD and moving out.
The guilt further separates MLCer and spouse.  The guilt and loneliness causes MLCer to reach out to OW for reassurance that they are good and worthy. Though it is not the cause, guilt fuels the infidelity.

The hormonal highs in an A kept secret can continue indefinitely IF THE OW ACCEPTS THAT AND LOWERS HER STATUS. This type is a lifer.
But MLCer's seek to fill a greater void. They are seeking to build a relationship of shared intimacy, and secrecy is a barrier to this level of emotional commitment.

Most OW are NOT HAPPY with the lower status (being kept secret) and will pressure the MLCer to leave his S and make their relationship public.  It the OW is a secret it fuels the fantasy. If made public, it is the downfall of in-factuation."

So the fact that you know and his father knows...it is not secret.  It will not be long before others know.  If they are eating out in a restaurant or out in public elsewhere, someone will run into them, someone will see them cuddling or hand holding in public.  It will eventually happen. Unless they both meet in a cave everytime 

SG

[SSG]

My hope is that in looking at his OW my guilt-ridden H sees his own despicable behavior literally mirrored in her & what she has done &  eventually becomes disgusted with her as well as himself.

And while sex can be an important factor, I think even more powerful is the adoration & approval, the validation of the MLC mindset.  The capacity of the OP to keep up the approval/validation is quite amazing & demonstrates their own insecurity & poor self-esteem.  My H's OW was around long before BD; it is hard to understand why she has hung on for so long & has (apparently) demanded so little.  My MLCer seems entranced by the adoration; what will it take to break that trance?

Heart Tattoo could not agree with you more. I have read and seen in public the "adoration OW gives H"  When friends witness it, it makes them shake their heads (poor H)  My H's OW capacity to keep it up, I believe, is that she is also a broken record. I believe they bounce off each other, reflecting their insecurities and countering with validations.  At times it seems to be a nonstop interaction.

SG

[Lanzo]

Hi SG,

Had to look after that remark.  Someone told me,, if they leave stuff like that in their wallets or not really hidden, they want someone to find it.  Anyone heard of that before?

SG

When I have discussed my sitch with my SIL she says as an outsider looking in she can see a lot of the things xW was doing was for show to catch my attention.  Things were left out easily for me to find, that way if I react it would cause  a big argument , big enough to feed the monster for days. Yes xW would be in the wrong but how dare I go through her stuff.

Yesterday was a good example. We have phone chargers in most rooms, xW put her phone to charge on the table next to me then left the room. She comes back 10 minutes later to check the phone, sends a text and sets the phone down and leaves the room. I was thinking why not just take the phone with you instead of trying to tempt me.

So yes, some want to get caught, some just want to taunt and rub it in your face.


Lanzo

[SSG]

Hi Lanzo

I think with the password and secret name in wallet...he was not aware I would look, because I never in the 15 yrs before BD snooped.

BUT...now that you brought up leaving the cell phone available...mine did the same on many of his overnight visits (for business) after BD.   One time I sneaked a peak while he slept, he never wakes up easy, so it was a not a problem.
But many times he would text, leave it charging in the living room and then go outside for 10 minutes.  I think it was a test for me...so I would read, get mad and give him the satisfaction that leaving me was the right thing to do.

As hard as it was, I never touched it.  One time when he was here and left the phone charging in the guest bedroom where I made him sleep...he went to take a shower, so I quickly read that mornings text.

OW was throwing a fit, as H was not texting her every waking moment.  Asked what was going on at the house.  Text was in large letters...so screaming.  She was threatening him that she was through!!   Such drama 

SG

[HeartTattoo]

While we try to be dismissive of the significance of the OP, this by far is the cruelest & most painful part for the LBS.

With the writing RCR has done, I think there is recognition about the OP being the most painful.....RCR writes that directly in regard to infidelity.Infidelity Though this is merely a symptom of the Dis-Ease, it is often the most painful and public.
From RCR
MLC is a crisis. It is specific to the individual in MLC; it is not about the spouse and it is not about the alienator. The alienator is just a convenient and willing player on stage.

Yes, RCR has acknowledged this & yes, in the big picture the OP is only a prop for the crisis, & yes, the best stance of the LBS is to ignore the alienator, consider them inconsequential, dismiss them from our minds.  What I am trying to say is that, while we keep telling ourselves it isn't personal, it feels intensely personal.  Literature is full of the romance of the OP.  Society almost legitimizes the OP as soothing the "unhappiness" of the WAS.  So the messages of the inadequacy & blame for the LBS are very hard to overcome & require so much energy, energy that we need initially just to survive & in the long term, to thrive.

There is so much about MLC that we understand intellectually pretty quickly.  It is the emotional acceptance that takes all of the energy, that sends us cycling, that wears us down.

[Medusa]

There is so much about MLC that we understand intellectually pretty quickly.  It is the emotional acceptance that takes all of the energy, that sends us cycling, that wears us down.

Very well said. Somehow our hearts and heads align to help is move forward, but until that happens, we suffer.

[HeartTattoo]

Lots of interesting bits here--

"Getting caught cheating does not encourage the MLCer to get help and end the relationship with OW. It provides the necessary environment for BD and moving out.

My H made a bizarre comment in our early attempt at MC "Maybe if you get caught you can try to put your marriage back together, but if you don't that isn't possible".  Yet, unlike the stereotype of "wanting to get caught" my H was scrupulous about secrecy.  A lifetime of trust certainly worked in his favor, but he left not a crumb of a clue.  So was that comment "blaming" me for not catching him?  Or was it the reason he was so careful; he didn't want to get caught?  Or, hmmm, probably both?

The guilt further separates MLCer and spouse.  The guilt and loneliness causes MLCer to reach out to OW for reassurance that they are good and worthy. Though it is not the cause, guilt fuels the infidelity.

Absolutely.  This is, I believe, my H's infidelity in a nutshell.  Because of the man he is, he had to have had feelings of guilt from the beginning & has continued to have.  This guilt caused him to project that I no longer loved him, didn't even "like" him, because how could I with what he was doing (even though I wasn't aware).  So validation for his "goodness" had to come from the alienator & she knew how to play that.  Even now, many years after their infidelity began & 16 months post-BD this is his rationalization--"I found someone who likes me..."

But MLCer's seek to fill a greater void. They are seeking to build a relationship of shared intimacy, and secrecy is a barrier to this level of emotional commitment.

This is exactly what makes most MLC affairs so long lasting & also what makes them feel so personal to the LBS.  It isn't "just sex" pursued on impulse.  It is a R pursued to insinuate into the marital dynamic & eventually replace it.  Very hard not to take that personally.

Most OW are NOT HAPPY with the lower status (being kept secret) and will pressure the MLCer to leave his S and make their relationship public.  It the OW is a secret it fuels the fantasy. If made public, it is the downfall of in-factuation."

The pressure of the OW is something that can eventually become the wedge that breaks the MLCer's "new life".  My H's OW has put up with years of secrecy & playing by H's "rules" of how & when their R went public, & I believe that "status" is a huge part of this for her.  Her life has been about "upgrading" & she has legitimate accomplishments along that line.  I think she sees my H as an "upgrade" & she is surely getting tired of not having all of the rewards ($ & commitment) that demonstrate that upgrade to everyone else.  While her pressure will also put pressure on me, eventually I think it will be that wedge that exposes the shallowness of her adoration & approval.

[SSG]

Most OW are NOT HAPPY with the lower status (being kept secret) and will pressure the MLCer to leave his S and make their relationship public. 

 Her life has been about "upgrading" & she has legitimate accomplishments along that line.  I think she sees my H as an "upgrade" & she is surely getting tired of not having all of the rewards ($ & commitment) that demonstrate that upgrade to everyone else.  While her pressure will also put pressure on me, eventually I think it will be that wedge that exposes the shallowness of her adoration & approval.

HeartTattoo....

your sitch is where mine is now.  I can fully identify with your statement above in relation to my H's OW.  My H is an upgrade to her "farm hand/truck driving" ex H.   He is prominent in a world that she wants to be a part of.
Unfortunately...the respect shown to both of them, from their peers, is absent.  More like the cold shoulder at many events.  And no one...acknowledges her presence even when she stands next to him.

I am hoping this will help H see, that he is not going to advance farther up the ladder with her, but will reverse in the opposite direction.  The dog world and his judging is the only thing he has to lift him up at the moment.  She will hinder that process.  I hope it will happen, sooner than later, help to wake him up.

SG

[Searching4Answers]

Hi Searching.

From one of my journals and sorry, did not write down where I found it (could be from HS website):

"Getting caught cheating does not encourage the MLCer to get help and end the relationship with OW. It provides the necessary environment for BD and moving out.
The guilt further separates MLCer and spouse.  The guilt and loneliness causes MLCer to reach out to OW for reassurance that they are good and worthy. Though it is not the cause, guilt fuels the infidelity.

The hormonal highs in an A kept secret can continue indefinitely IF THE OW ACCEPTS THAT AND LOWERS HER STATUS. This type is a lifer.
But MLCer's seek to fill a greater void. They are seeking to build a relationship of shared intimacy, and secrecy is a barrier to this level of emotional commitment.

Most OW are NOT HAPPY with the lower status (being kept secret) and will pressure the MLCer to leave his S and make their relationship public.  It the OW is a secret it fuels the fantasy. If made public, it is the downfall of in-factuation."

So the fact that you know and his father knows...it is not secret.  It will not be long before others know.  If they are eating out in a restaurant or out in public elsewhere, someone will run into them, someone will see them cuddling or hand holding in public.  It will eventually happen. Unless they both meet in a cave everytime 

SG

Thank You SG

H does not really bring her around our area - they go do things that aren't too close by and they stay in hotels. I do believe at some point she will start to pressure him more and more. I recall over the summer H telling me that she had a fit because she was jealous of me I can't imagine that has changed any.

H has not been inviting me to family gatherings anymore - not sure why but I know it is causing a stir with the family who suspects. Next month we normally go to his mom and stepdads for a weekend; I am assuming that I will not be invited but I am wondering if H is going to take her with him. It is a 50-50 chance - if he does take here then the cat will be out of the bag - his mom will tell everyone in the family. I know that this may need to happen but I am dreading it.

There is so much about MLC that we understand intellectually pretty quickly.  It is the emotional acceptance that takes all of the energy, that sends us cycling, that wears us down.

Very true ..............the emotional side of this is exhausting.

The guilt further separates MLCer and spouse.  The guilt and loneliness causes MLCer to reach out to OW for reassurance that they are good and worthy. Though it is not the cause, guilt fuels the infidelity.

Absolutely.  This is, I believe, my H's infidelity in a nutshell.  Because of the man he is, he had to have had feelings of guilt from the beginning & has continued to have.  This guilt caused him to project that I no longer loved him, didn't even "like" him, because how could I with what he was doing (even though I wasn't aware).  So validation for his "goodness" had to come from the alienator & she knew how to play that.  Even now, many years after their infidelity began & 16 months post-BD this is his rationalization--"I found someone who likes me..."

I can see this in my H as well. I recently gave the cat a bath and of course the cat was annoyed after and went to hide under the bed - H told me 'now you know what it feels like to have someone mad at you all of the time' - I almost laughed at him

[Darth Obo]

Try as you may to 'scare them off' but eventually if she wants 'it' she will get it'.....in my opinion. SO many broken OP's in the world looking for 'anything' ( married people or not) who won't even think about having any 'character' when our broken MLCers come knocking...

Agree Rookie.....it's a crap shoot at best! Still; I won't set back and watch it happen so I stay on it anyway. You're correct; a lot of broken people but also a lot of entitlement happy that just don't give a crap about anyone else! And not just MLC either. 10-15 years ago women had a code of honor (at least my wife and all her friends did); wouldn't even look at a married man. Now days, it seems like the more established and longer you have been married, the more they try to pursue you. It's nuts!

Had to look after that remark.  Someone told me,, if they leave stuff like that in their wallets or not really hidden, they want someone to find it.  Anyone heard of that before?

When I have discussed my sitch with my SIL she says as an outsider looking in she can see a lot of the things xW was doing was for show to catch my attention.  Things were left out easily for me to find, that way if I react it would cause  a big argument , big enough to feed the monster for days. Yes xW would be in the wrong but how dare I go through her stuff.

Yesterday was a good example. We have phone chargers in most rooms, xW put her phone to charge on the table next to me then left the room. She comes back 10 minutes later to check the phone, sends a text and sets the phone down and leaves the room. I was thinking why not just take the phone with you instead of trying to tempt me.

So yes, some want to get caught, some just want to taunt and rub it in your face.

Mine used OM#1 phone number as the password to her iphone/ipad to taunt me; she admitted that. Also admitted she knew I would look and she didn't bother deleting the the conversation between her and OM#2. So yes, she did want me to see and she admitted she was hoping I would get pissed enough to boot her out so she wouldn't have to be the bad guy.

As far as leaving her stuff out; she knows I will look if she leaves it down. In fact, after EA#2 was discovered, I'll take and look at her stuff any time I want now. I took her right to privacy away; told her if she didn't like it then go file for D and get out of my house! I pay for that phone and it is in my name anyway so she can stuff it.

I know this doesn't follow the traditional teachings here but anyone who has read any of my postings on infidelity knows this is a boundary and sore spot with me; I wont tolerate the disrespect and she knows that! She has a choice to leave but she stays and endures my boundary / rules so it is what it is!


OBO