[OldPilot]

I was afraid to take ADs because I'm so sensitive and for some, they cause thoughts of suicide.

This was my wife's objection also but after talking to the doctor he explained that they can only cause suicide if you are so depressed that you can't actually commit the act. When you take the AD's they give you some relief right away and that is when people that want to committ suicide, do it . The full effects don't kick in for 2 weeks. So the first 2 weeks on AD's should be watched carefully. After that the risk of suicide is slim. Also I was on them for stress not depression.

[LifeGoesOn]

I take 5-HTP. Psychiatrist suggested i try it first and it did the job of taking the edge off. DS is on Zoloft for Anxiety & Depression. It has been a good thing for him, erased his obsessive thinking patterns and irritability. He also sees a family therapist 2x a month. 

A healthy diet and exercise are a must.

[SpecialK]

Hello

I have a few questions about depression:

If you try to resolve it yourself or simple just bury it (try to avoid the feelings) and the feeling go, are they likely to come back, and if so are they worse.

If left untreated, what could happen?

What happens if you ignore and carry on like nothings wrong (ie through yourself into work so that you don't have to think), could this lead to a breakdown?

[Voyager]

Hi Special K
Ok I suspect there might be people on here more expert than me. I've suffered with clinical depression on and off most of my life, so I can give you some perspective on it from a sufferers point of view rather than a medical one.
First of all you need to know if it is depression, as opposed to feeling down and low and stressed. Sometimes in the early stages it's hard to know.
Then there are different types of depression, so learning about what they are helps. There's a lot of info on the net.
If it is depression it does need to be treated, but what treatment really is up to you.
In my case in my earlier periods I went on AD's but later as I got to recognise my symptoms better I relied only on therapy and in my case, but it's not for all, CBT was most effective. Exercise is really good too, some people use a combnation of all three.
My last 2 episodes were much shorter and I didn't take AD's.
Strangely through my crises with my h I haven't slipped into depression. Stress yes, low mood yes, but not a full blown episode.
And you mustn't be scared of it, it's an illness, and there are a lot of ways to recover from it.
Hope that helps. Hope you'e ok. xx

[Trustandlove]

My take is that burying the feelings doesn't work -- they do just come back, possibly stronger. 

I, too, found that CBT was the most effective; I did start to see someone, but found that it worked better to get some good books and do it myself.  A combination is probably best....  I've also done ad's when needed -- sometimes they are enough to remind you what "normal" is -- and they can take off the worst of the panic so you can function, if that is the issue.

I put the books in the resources section; I actually bought a number of them and went with the one that worked best for me.  The theory is the same, each book uses slightly different vocabulary and examples. 

But it takes a lot of work -- and you have to actually do the exercises in writing, just thinking about them doesn't work.   There is a huge difference in getting it down on paper. 

[Purple stain]

so on my commute home today, I've been thinking. How can someone who is depressed/has been depressed for several years overcome depression?

It is a vicious cycle. My h has not been in the mood to do anything, not even sports these days. He's very tired but can't sleep. His therapist told him to "balance" his life but I have not seen any changes.

I'm just wondering, how can they pull themselves out of all these negative thoughts and feelings? I was slightly depressed for a while when I wasn't working and not in school and that's how my h became my world. And that's when I decided I had to finally do something about it which I did! After thinking about it for quite some time, I applied at my school and got in. Actually, finally I thought I had it all (loving h etc) and then my world came crashing down on me by BD. Sometimes I wonder if that might have triggered my H's MLC that I'm going for my dreams and he isn't...

So I guess that answers my question in a way that you have to make a change. But why don't our "nuts and squirrels" (MLCers) do that instead of throwing their families away and look for something that doesn't exist?! How can they not see that they need to make changes in their lives to be happy? I know that happiness doesn't come from outer circumstances but sometimes you have to change something to be happy again.

Any thoughts?

[In this for ME]

I wish I knew why it had to be so radical.

I talked to someone about what happened to me the other day and they said "Gee..I know a couple of guys that went through that - but they got tatoos". WOW some of them can solve it with something so simple and other ones, like all of our nuts and squirrels ( love that by the way) have to join Alice in the rabbit hole. 

I have bouts of depression but I don't remember how I get out of it. I know the feeling when it starts it's like a veil that drops down over me. I can almost feel it.

I think you hit it on the head PS. You finally just realize somehow that you have to take action.

Problem is if your messed up enough (MLC) it's pretty much a sure thing your decision on what to do is going to be wrong.

In the meantime the path they have to clear cut to get to where they are going or find what they are looking for (If they even know) is wide and long.

And like some deaf, blind, farmer with a huge scythe the destruction and bleeding bodies they leave behind in thier wake is enough to curdle the blood of the most stouted hearted human beings on earth.

[covenantkeeper]

I have thought about this for this entire year since my bomb drop. I can't give you a definite reason for any of this except to say that we are all different. We process and react to things differently. Some of us have a strong faith that helps and some think they can do everything on their own.

I think MLC is very different than depression. For instance, my h has suffered from depression for most of our marriage. While he has been the negative one....we called him BA (for Bad Attitude) from the character in the old A-Team show. That and Eeyore from Winnie the Pooh. Any time my husband would start that gloom and doom stuff I would try to snap him out of it, but I could only manage to do that sometimes. And now that I look back on it, I realize how exhausting it was to keep trying to lift his spirits!

The other day my h told me he has always gone by the idea that he always expects the worst to happen and that way if it's better he is surprised. I was flabbergasted that he said this and furthermore that he said it's what his family lived by. I said Bingo! Now we know where your problem and stinking thinking started. He didn't understand that. I explained to him that by thinking and expecting the worst in everything in his life, he will only get the worst. I said, you reap what you sow! I told him if he thinks people are mistreating him or everything he does will fail, that's what he'll get. And once a person has that attitude, they stop looking for anything positive to come from anyone else. My h said oh, so you go skipping around in life thinking everything is coming up roses? LOL! I told him I strive to think the best about a person and to believe that everything will work out no matter what the situation is. And I reminded him that if I didn't do that, why in the world would I even be talking to him?!!

Even though medications work, a person isn't going to change their negative thinking without learning new behavior. We have to get rid of stinking thinking. I actually believe this negative stuff just becomes a habit...it's a way of life. A person needs to create a new habit.

Two books that I have read on this subject that have been tremendous help to me are Battlefield of the Mind and Power Thoughts by Joyce Meyer. She writes these from a Christian perspective and I have no idea if you are comfortable with that or not. In my own LBS journey, nothing helped me more than these books. I found myself carrying them around with me and reading passages over and over again. Whatever battle I was having at the moment, I would find a chapter that covered that. So, I would read it again to get those positive words in my head. And it works! Just like the other way of garbage in, garbage out works for cementing negative thoughts.

As far as why don't our MLC ers do this instead of blaming us and doing all this damage? That's easy to answer. Because it's easier for them to blame us so they won't have to look at themselves. They don't want to admit anything they've done wrong because then they would have to admit they've screwed up. They have to want to change. Until they get that want to, change will not occur.

The therapist I went to see told me that men are the worst at change and talking to anyone about their depression. Their idea of talking is to simply say to a guy, "yeah, I'm having trouble with the wife." Then the other guy will say," been there, done that. Good luck to you" as he gives him a hit on the shoulder.  And they're done! They think that's really talking out a problem! 

Women are wired differently. We are fixers, problem solvers, relationship healers. We see a problem, research the reason, and seek out a way to fix it! If that means we need to talk to a friend, pastor, or therapist, we do it. If it means we need to read books and change ourselves in order to see change in the other person, we do it. If it means we need to pray more, we do it. We will try anything to get to the bottom of the problem, because we have that built inside of us to mend relationships.

Now, I realize there are men who don't go through MLC and there are women who do and therefore you see the opposite in their actions. But, this is just a general explanation of how men and women are different. And since it seems people in MLC act like they've been abducted by aliens, they can act in every which way. Nothing they do is rational anyway.

[Rollercoasterider]

Purple Stain,
 

How can someone who is depressed/has been depressed for several years overcome depression?
...how can they pull themselves out of all these negative thoughts and feelings?
 
His therapist told him to "balance" his life but I have not seen any changes.

Well, that sounds helpful--pardon my sarcasm. Hopefully the therapist worked on something more concrete than merely saying the words, otherwise that is as helpful as my Grandma who has the buck up attitude and thus dismisses anyone else's problems or complaints. Telling a person to balance their life without helping the person to come up with active ideas that will bring balance. What does it even mean to balance your life? It will be different for each person.
 
There are various types of depression. For some it will take medication. Others can make dietary changes in place of pharmaceuticals. Lifestyle changes are a huge factor.
 
Situational depression is different than clinical depression, it also may serve a healthy function similar to the way a fever is often the body's way of removing harmful invaders. Situational depression may manifest as grief and is not uncommon after the death of a parent or when you are an LBS of an MLCer.
 
Change is important. But it's just a word when discussed without any actions to support it. Talking about change does nothing. Doing it is what counts. But doing what? The word change itself is non-descript.
 
Some things for a depressed person to think about:
What are you doing differently when you are not feeling depressed?
What are the circumstances in your life when you are not depressed?
What are you feeling when you are not feeling depressed?

The idea is to focus on what works and waht you want rather than on waht is not working and what you do not want.

Now consider that in MLC a person will project in order to answer those questions. If they are in an in-fatuative affair, they will truly believe that it is a cure to their depression because in-fatuation is creating a hormonal high--like a drug. When high, the idea that there could be a crash is unbelievable and even unimaginable. So their answer may be about the elation they feel when under the spell of in-fatuation--but they do not know it is a spell.
 

why don't our "nuts and squirrels" (MLCers) do that [make a change] instead of throwing their families away and look for something that doesn't exist?! How can they not see that they need to make changes in their lives to be happy?

They are making changes--you know that already because of the situation you are now in. It's different, right? Leaving you is making a change in their life--a big one. True, it is not a healthy change. It is unhealthy due to the manner they are going about it--often adultery, and because they are doing it in a way that harms others. That makes it selfish. Finding Self and focusing on your Self when they are Self-Centered methods and motives(centered=balanced) are positive actions; they are not selfish which is a focus on Self over others and to the detriment of others. But as you are well aware, MLCers focus on Self in selfish ways because they harm others to get what they want. Often they do not want to harm others and yet they are aware that their actions cause damage and yet this does not stop them.

Causing pain/hurt is different than damage. Sometimes honesty, whether kind or brutal, but necessary, causes pain. The pain is the result of the receiver's choice. We choose to feel hurt by someone else's actions and thus they are not responsible for how we feel. Damage is different. It is something inflicted upon us without our choice or consent. The most obvious non-physical damage in MLC situations is to the children since the crisis can have a negative affect on development.
 
Why do they think the necessary change is to abandon their marriage?
Life with you is their main environment. When looking for the cause of a problem, first look toward the thing that has the greatest influence. That is usually Work or Family. If work is just a job, then it will be eliminated from the possibilities. If work has been unstable but they suddenly feel even worse, then they will eliminate work as a possibility because they've been through those hardships before. The family is often the first source of blame and projection. Rather than a comfort and safety zone, the family becomes a suspect. Suspicion breed paranoia, and thus their radar may have been more sensitive since the MLC trigger--12-36 before Bomb Drop.

Then consider the affects of their negative behaviour on themselves. Their actions can create a negative cycle of depression because when they see what they are doing or what they have done they may become more depressed or depressed again. MLC actions feed depression. It's ironic because MLCers take those actions in hopes they will cure depression--though they may not label themselves as depressed.

Depression is about feeling that things--whatever those things  may be for the individual--are hopeless. So a depressed person may start looking for a cause and a cure. MLC is a crisis of Self. It is in part brought on by the surfacing of the Shadow--which is scary. The person wants to hide from the Shadow, they want to stuff it back inside themselves where they can pretend it doesn't exist. They are ashamed of what is buried in their Shadow. To do that they must eliminate their own Self as a cause. So they must look outside of themselves for what makes them depressed. You--their spouse and family--will be among the first they study. They may have eliminated you from suspect early on--perhaps soon after the trigger. But after running through other possibilities and eliminating them, they are back to you. Nothing else fits--so they say--so that means you must be the problem.

Since MLC is about the Shadow, one of the things an MLCer needs to do to get through the depression is face his Shadow. That is what Liminality is about.

[Purple stain]

Thanks RCR! That's where my h is "Liminality is Overt Depression". He can't sleep although he's extremely tired. He has no interest in anything not even in sports which he used to live for! He told me he is happy in the morning because then nothing has happened yet but as the day progresses the drudgery of the day wears on him.

He told me that "he doesn't think all of this has anything to do with me". He said whether he stays or goes, he's hurting me because of the place he is in right now.

I guess there's nothing I can do to help him except to pray and ask for God to guide him through the tunnel and face his shadows...