[NinjaGirl]

How can someone who is depressed/has been depressed for several years overcome depression?

I was just talking to a friend last night that self-admittedly went through a MLC years ago.  He said he sunk into a deep depression and went cuckoo.  He's told me repeatedly that someone in depression will refuse listening to anyone telling them that they are in a depression.  People don't want to face their own demons.  If anything, by telling someone they are depressed, the person will fight the idea even more. 

So I asked him what made him snap out of it.  He said he's really not sure, but he thinks it was because one day he was wallowing and he realized that there truly was nobody else to blame anymore.  He was alone, and there was no attention for his depression, and he thinks that what made him realized that the problem was his and his alone.

The pain is the result of the receiver's choice. We choose to feel hurt by someone else's actions and thus they are not responsible for how we feel.

I've always liked the saying... "Nobody can MAKE you feel anything"  It's so true.  Self worth has to come from within.

I dunno.  I honestly think in the end it comes down to personality, genetics, and upbringing.  Some people look at the glass half full and others see it as half empty.  Perspective is everything.

[xyzcf]

http://www.thirdage.com/relationships-love/why-men-leave-what-every-woman-and-man-needs-to-know

This was posted on the subscribers side by another LBSer ...I asked to post it here because for me anyway, it is dead on.

This article has me in tears..because it seems so true in my case and so hopeless...how can they possibly resolve this?



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But the primary reason men leave is that they are overwhelmed with shame.



About 9 mo post BD my husband sat on the couch and refused to look at me..when I asked him why, he dropped his head and stated "shame, shame, shame". I held him and told him "no shame" but it wasn't enough.

There are a couple of other things that happened that allow me to see this shame of his.



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They feel they need to leave the relationship to keep the core of their identity from being destroyed. They feel they need to leave the relationship to keep from destroying the people they love the most. In their state of mind, leaving is the most kind and loving thing they can do to protect their spouse and children from the rage that is building up inside. They leave because they feel the long repressed childhood traumas coming to the surface, which many men would rather die than confront.



I think I know what he was lacking from his childhood and it makes sense now but again...the significance of that lack of closeness and comfort when he was just a little boy seem impossible to fix now. What I have suspected, that the death of his mother whom he adored is somehow the catalyst of this.



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Once you know what is really going on, his desire to leave can be seen as part of the healing process. Even if he leaves, that doesn't have to be the end. Leaving can be seen as another step along the way to understand the past, reclaim the present, and build a new and better future.



I can't see him coming back..I just can't....he derives his emotional high from his work....he won't give his "drug" up to face the shame and guilt that he feels.....I suspect that he thinks he did the right thing by leaving, taking care of me financially and now that it's done....it would serve no purpose to return..somehow I think he feels I am better off without him.

This article triggered so many things for me...things that are deep within that I don't want to share here...and I doubt that my husband and I could even discuss them..and that's very very sad consider this was the most intimate relationship I have ever had....for 35 years.

[Dontgiveup]

I am not that familiar with Jed Diamond, but I think the information about shame is something we know about MLC.  This is the very first part of RCR's article on Monster.

Monster is the bursting forth of the extroverted Shadow. Everyone has a Shadow side comprised of demons, shames and fears.

How do they resolve it?  That's what Liminality is about.  Diamond refers to resolving childhood issues....which is common to all MLCers, male and female.

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_overview_liminality.html

[Anjae]

Shame alone is not enough. Unless there is OW, men don't leave, no matter how much shame they may feel. At least I have never come across one who left and there was no OW.

DGU, I not so sure they solve it in Liminality, my cousin had passed the liminal depression stage and has solved nothing. At least, not yet. He is 9 months into is "awakening" from the depression and all the issues he had, his were connect with not have achieved what he thought he should and getting old, are still there.

He may still resolve his issues but it may take a while.

[Thundarr]

Hey X,

I completely understand your choice for privacy, but I am concerned whether or not you have a safe outlet for what you have pent up inside.  You mentioned that you cannot talk to your H about it and that you choose not to go into it here, but now that it has surfaced within you it cannot be denied.  I don't recall your mentioning having a therapist but I would strongly advise reaching out to one or to a trusted member of the clergy.  Remember, we have our own journey to healing to do and we serve ourselves and our spouses better by staying ahead of them in it.

Peace to you, and please get some rest as you are beginning to sound very tired from all this.

[Dontgiveup]

my cousin had passed the liminal depression stage and has solved nothing. At least, not yet.

So how do you know he has passed the liminal depression stage?

He is 9 months into is "awakening" from the depression and all the issues he had, his were connect with not have achieved what he thought he should and getting old, are still there.

How do you know he is 9 months into an "awakening".  That's pretty specific timing.

What are your thoughts on RCR's article on Liminality?

[xyzcf]

Anne J...actually, although my husband had a brief affair (lasted about 5 weeks) I wouldn't say that he left for an OW...he sent me home from a foreign country and a year later when we were supposed to move to another foreign assignment he announced he didn't want to be married to me anymore.

As far as I know there is not an OW and I don't think that's why he sent me away.

Thundaar...thanks for your concern....actually I was in therapy for about 18 months after BD. I will say that even after 34 months...I am still very very sad. I do see improvements in my mental health though, it is a gradual process but I know I am moving forward and not sliding back.

When I was in Leeds..I met some LBSers who I had met a year ago in Luxembourg and you can see the difference in us...and it is better but there is still great sadness. I still cannot see that my life will be what I want unless he comes home.....I will live well, I am happy and have many joys in my life...but I doubt this will change much as I go forward....for like so many...my family is gone...what I worked for, what I would die for is not there any more....and there is nothing I can do about it.

[Anjae]

I've been following my cousin since he become totally depressed and have been down, numb and zombie for weeks. He was brought here and I shared the same room with him for those weeks, looked after him, took him to the psychiatrist, hear him cry, hear his story.

I keep taking him to the psychiatrist since he "wake up", we’ve been there last week again. I write "wake up" because it was literally that. One Wednesday he was still totally depressed, mumbling, shaking, dead eyes, the next, after a conversation with a friend, he was much, much different. Alive again.

9 months because I know when that Thursday was and how much time has passed since. It was August, the 25th of 2011. 9 months ago.

My cousin himself says he waken up at that time, that, until then and since he had become completely depressed (overt depression) he was dead, inside and outside.

So, now, compared with what was before, both the covert and over depression, I say he is no longer depressed. And so say the psychiatrist. His antidepressants were removed a while ago. He is still agitated, and on this last appointment, the doctor gave him a very mild anti-anxiety.

Of course that he is still in transition, the doctor told us it would take about two years for him to adjust after he “wake up” and that it is possible he can be depressed again.

I think RCR article on Liminality is fine. I don’t know if it happens exactly the same way for every MCLer… I would say my cousin is in reintegration phase. But the issues are still there, unresolved. He had been talking about that with the doctor last week.

So, maybe not all MCLers solve the issues in Liminality. Or maybe I don’t call Liminality to a phase that still is Liminality. It is hard to say exactly where one phase ends and the other starts. But, for my cousin, since I was around, I’m using the differences in types of depression, behaviour, posture, and so on.

[Anjae]

xyzcf , men do not leave for OW, the leave because there is an OW, a little subtle difference, but a difference. 

Maybe MCLers are different than non MCLer men. Non MCLer men don’t leave a marriage unless there is OW. Of course that, like in everything, there are exceptions, but as a general rule, they don’t. Several men, including some that have left (or been forced to leave by the wife), all told me that: men don’t leave unless there is an OW.

Maybe your husband 5 weeks affair was his OW... They send us away a lot. Or go away themselves. And most of them say they don't want to be married anymore.

I think shame is part of the reason why they leave but not the only reason. And, of course, once they leave, more shame upon themselves they bring, the more they run and go away from us. More shame comes, and so on. It becomes a vicious circle.
 

[TrustingMyHP]

xyzcf,

Wish I could give you a hug.  I feel your sadness and share your despair of "what I worked for, what I would die for is not there any more."

This is so hard to process, so hard to accept.  You and I are both women who were into our 4th decade of marriage, with an adored daughter, when the tsunami of MLC wiped away the lives we knew and loved.  Oh hon, I have drunk those bitter dregs with you.

As you know, this past month has been the first in my "spiritual quest."  I spent six glorious days at a Benedictine abbey last week.  Through the daily prayers we recited I began "opening up space" within me in which I hope to slowly craft the framework for acceptance--which we all know is the only path out of this labyrinth of pain.

Today I returned from a women's retreat (led by Melisa Pearce, a gestalt therapist and founder of Touched By a Horse.)  She did a powerful session during the retreat on accepting that we "own" no one and can "control" no one except ourselves.  Something we all intellectually understand but few emotionally "get." 

She helped me begin to understand that when those we love are in crisis, and we have exhausted efforts to help or aid them, or they refuse our help as is the case with the MLCer, then we can only give them back to God.  For the truth is that our Beloveds belong to Him, not to us.  They are His children, not ours.

That's a hard thing to comprehend, much less accept.  But I believe it to be true. 

For whatever reason(s), God wants our H's at this time, perhaps to do work on them, perhaps to put them on a path that will bring them more in line with God's will for them, perhaps to make it possible so they can resolve the FOO issues present in most MLCers.

So He's taken them from us.

He may never give them back.  If He doesn't, I am choosing to believe it's because He has something better in store for us and for them and our children. 

I refuse to believe God is not working in my life and in my H's.  I refuse to believe God is not working in OW's life.  And I refuse to believe I will never know happiness and love again.  It may not be with my H, or even another partner, but it will be.

This experience is making us more compassionate, more humble, better friends, more present in the lives of those we love, stronger parents, and living examples to everyone who knows us, or comes in contact with us, of the courage of convictions and the willingness to suffer deeply for those we love.  Perhaps it is for those things alone that God has brought this into our lives? 

Shame is a strong emotion, terrible to feel and most challenging to handle.  I've no doubt men have a very hard time with it and that a "vicious cycle" of shame and avoidance is common among MLCers.  But I don't think that's the real reason our H's left.

I believe it's because God wants them right now--as he wants us to do the work he's put before us.

And we're doing it!

TMHP