[sambriony]

I eventually decided to see a counsellor and it really helped.What I realised early on was that I was there to talk about and help me not my H.She was my therapist not his.She wouldnt be drawn into views on my H because she had never met him and of course there are always two sides to a story.She did say he sounded as if he was going through a crisis but the important thing was for to me to help me and the best way to do that was talk.I initially spent all my time talking my H until she made it clear it was impossible to guess what was going on his head and if he was depressed, he probably wouldnt knw what was happening in his own head so I had to try and avoid guessing cos thats all it was.i

I then took my youngest daughter to a psychologist.She has been destroyed by her fathers behaviour especially when my dad passed and he spewed like never before.

 The psycholigist was more open to suggest H issues explaining that he probably didnt mean what he said and that it sounded like  he was going through a very deep personal crisis.She completely got the fact that d wasupset that h said he left the marriage not the girls...our d said that as far as she was concenred she was the marriage and the very reason for its being.The Psych also acknowledged that h had destroyed a very close family unit but it was important for our d to give herself the permission to see her dad in the future if thats what she wanted. D was insistent that she ould never be part of his life again especially if ow remained in it. What i did get from talking to Psych was the feelings we were going through,all of us were very normal..the same feelings we all share here every day.The hiding away to escape, the anger,the despair, the shouting,the desperation, the feeling of loss..its all normal. For me it was worth it to understand that.....

[angelgirl]

MLCer has returned to us after 3 months of abandonment and insanity. Yet there is still lingering depression issues, personality shifts (from old H to new H), teenage attitudes, and remorse, but not crawling on his knees remorse. The therapist i had been seeing does not recognize MLC and nor does he promote the Christian value of marriage. While each day old H is "present" longer, he is still "different" to everyone who knows him. He believes time will cure "it". He keeps going around asking himself "why did i do this?" H felt counselors did nothing to help him. My therapist does not believe any therapy will help; and if i want to be with him, i clearly have set my standards low.  I had thought we should go to marriage counseling or get him a psychiatric evaluation or go on a marriage weekend. But the therapist said he believes that H must have always been this way and I didn't know it, and enabled it. And he will NEVER change back. Hmm. I realize H was never the most mature adult, but he was always so traditional in in values and a dedicated husband and father. The person who became depressed in Dec/Jan of 2010 and dropped a bomb in Feb of 2011 was positively alien. Like i said, he dumped the OW and that life and is home now, but is not fully H. Now I've found a marriage therapist close to home with a Christian philosophy. I want my H to hear my concerns about rebuilding trust and security through the mouth of a professional, so I really thought counseling was essential to rebuilding. This site has been so good at helping me through this. I feel like this the only helpful source thus far. That, and my faith. So, should i push for marriage counseling? How about a marriage weekend? I doubt he'll change back, but he can at least work at it.

Angelgirl 45
H is 45
2 teenage Ds
25yrs
rebuilding
 
Edited by RCR to change icon

[LettingGo]

Dump your therapist.... it's not a good match.... forget about MC or "weekends" it's too soon.

Prepare for your husband to "run" again, but he may be a low energy MLCer and remain in the home. Allow him his depressed state and stop trying to change it, help him, or FIX it.... allow him the DIGNITY of growing up and making his own choices, even if they turn out to be mistakes. You are not his mommy or his jailer. If you want a restored marriage, and it is MLC, you have a long ways to go on a twisty, windy road.

Please read ALL, and I mean ALL of the articles and info available to you on this forum... we are here to support and help, but please do your homework and don't make us school you in the fundamentals. If you are here, there are some concepts that I believe you should ACCEPT... give it a try.... if it doesn't work for you, you can always change your mind, but if you are believing in MLC and STANDING, then please give it your attention.

Forget counseling.

[Shantilly Lace]

LG beat me to it.

[Rollercoasterider]

Angelgirl,

I completely agree that you need to dump that first counselor and that it is too early for marriage counseling or marriage week ends.

But that does not mean you should not make attempts at counseling and marriage encounter week ends. They may simply not work for him but you need to go to counseling and if you encourage marriage counseling while accepting that he may not go (yet) you are sending him a message that it is important. So when he is ready you will have already planted those seeds.

As for that first counselor...Oh people like that make me mad. I mean I'm used to skeptical counselors, but that one sounds over the top and beyond dangerous. When you and your husband have rebuilt your life and had a few years after rebuilding, send him a letter. Oh he just makes me mad.

[Patience]

AG--first thing to know is that your old husband is never coming back.  I am not saying that the one you see today is permanent.  It's not.  I am suggesting that he's not through his MLC yet and has not yet become who he will be.  He's not the grown-up yet.  Only time will tell who he will be in the end.  He has a lot of work to do still. 

Since he's not even close to being there yet, your questions and concerns will have to wait awhile longer.  It's, unfortunately, still about him.  A wise person told me soon after my H returned that I would get my chance to ask the questions, but it wasn't time yet.  Only after he had been home for 3-4 months was I really able to feel free to ask questions and share my hurt.  He's been back for over 6 months now.  Many of the questions I needed to ask have been answered on his time.  Other questions have become less important and disappeared from my mind.  My concerns and wishes are being recognized more daily and weekly, but it takes time. 

The full remorse also comes slowly in bits and pieces.  I don't know how I knew this, and that my H was back for good, but you will know.   

RCR is right in that it's too early for MC.  We didn't go for 3-4 months.  He wasn't ready, and I had to accept that.  I am still too new at this reconciliation process to fully express or understand all of it.  We are not finished yet.  I suspect there are stages here also that I am going through.  I can say that the trust and security issues are very hard for an MLCer to handle right away.  Those also come back with time.  My gut feeling is that those issues are the last to be dealt with for the LBS and MLCer.  They are being worked on all along but are the last to be resolved.  Other things that contribute to the trust issues have to be dealt with first.  (Just my thoughts on this right now.  As I said, we are still early in the reconciliation process, but I think we are doing very well.)

[growing every day]

Angelgirl,

I am very fortunate to have a therapist that understands this crazy thing called MLC. And she also understands my standing. She may not agree with it, but she reminds me that it is my life, and my choices. She has been there to help ME. To take the focus off of H and make sure that I understand that while this journey is about H, it's first and foremost about ME. She is helping me to see that I have to take ownership of my life, take ownership of my happiness, take ownership of my heart and soul. It bothers me immensely that your therapist is so adamant about you and your marriage. Dump that therapist! Find one that understands this crazy world we all find ourselves in. Seriously, how can that person think they are helping you at all? I'm with RCR... that makes me very mad!

Hugs to you!!!

[kappy]

Angelgirl. I'm pretty new at this, but I cannot stress the importance of therapy for yourself. I agree that you need to find a therapist that is working with you not against you. As you are learning, MLC is very compacted and complex. When I asked my therapist if she believed in MLC she answered what is MLC. The important fact here is that your H is very confused so you need to take care of yourself right now while he figures himself out. So I'm not sure she believes on MLC, but the gameplan is the same. She did ask me what I wanted to do about my marriage. I told her I wanted to save it. She told me it was going to take a lot of patience on my side. So she understands the idea. She is also pro marriage which helps.  I don't know if it will save my marriage but it's a step forward. At least I'll know i did everything possible to save my marriage. I'm praying for a miracle but I'm ready for whatever comes. Good luck!!  And do read a lot here.  They all have great infirmation and a wonderful support system.  Whether u need information or just need to vent, this is the place for you!!  For us!! 

[readytofixmyselffirst]

The more I have been reading and looking at counseling, the more I realize that you just don't pick someone because they offer counseling just as you would not go to the yellow pages to select someone for brain surgery.

As counseling has evolved, there are two forms of marriage counseling that are deemed more effective than most. I will write about one then I will post later on the second. The point is that just to go to a counselor and not understand the type of therapy they are going to use is going to confuse you and may actually make things worse.

Traditional counseling has focused on communication skills. Unfortunately, this tends to create two people who can be even better at fighting than before.

EFT therapy is more than just talking about the problem. EFT is about deescalation of the crisis, creating a safe zone for discussions about feelings, and then repairing damaged emotional bonds between the couple. It is based more on research on adult love and childhood bonds. It is not a long term counseling (six months to a year) or 20-40 hours of counseling. However, research has shown that it is 70% effective in improving a relationship as compared to 35% for traditional counseling.

EFT is not simple. The counselor notes body language, listens for issues of trust, feelings, and willingness by both parties to discuss issues. The counselor slowly opens the wounds when she or he determines that the couple is ready to take the next step and feels safe to discuss issues. The goal is to emotionally reconnect the couple not just get them talking to each other again.

In my three counseling sessions, my wife has made three significant shifts, one she said, "I am not going to focus on the past." HUGE for someone who has clutched on to issues that are years and years old. The second came because she had requested to talk to the counselor in private then changed her mind. When asked why she said, "I think that we should not be keeping secrets or make it seem that we are ganging up on Ready. I also know that I need to learn to speak up to Ready." Great! Something I have been desiring for years. If I make you sad, let me know. Smack me on my but and say, "That was not good." Don't suffer in silence while I go on committing the same crime again and again. Finally, she said, "If I did not love Ready, I would not be here." Huge strides in a matter of a few hours of talking.

However, EFT and any other form of therapy is not going to work if the both parties are not ready to change. I also think that you need to work on healing yourself before you can heal your marriage. Then you will be ready to do YOUR work on the marriage and be able to complete change on YOUR part so that you can rebuild yourself and your marriage. Also, EFT and many other therapies tend to lose impact over time. I have realized that we will need to see counseling or weekends from now on to continue to refresh ourselves and keep our marriage intact and well-tended.

((((Hugs))) to you. You have taken a lot of hits in a short period of time. May God's grace heal you and comfort you at this time of need. I agree with the rest- find a new counselor. Why talk to anyone who tells you that "people don't change" if his purpose is to help create change? How about me as a basketball coach telling my players, "I don't even know why we are here. We are going to get beat and beat bad. If I were you, I wouldn't even try."

I will research and post on the other method. Like EFT, it is a very complex behavior model. It has the same results as EFT, but longitudinal studies indicate it has more lasting impact. Have a good day and remember to do one nice thing for you. Rest, eat well, and exercise. The MLCer at home can be really taxing and draining. Detach from his drama and ignore most if not all of his behaviors.

[LettingGo]

Nice post, Ready.... I'm convinced!! And knowing your story with your wife, it's amazing that she's responding to your therapy like that.... AMAZING!!