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Author Topic: Discussion Is this bad treatment inevitable with the MLCer?

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Discussion Re: Is this bad treatment inevitable with the MLCer?
#30: August 31, 2011, 02:29:11 PM
Kikki

That was very interesting! it does make you think now doesnt it?? hmmm

Thanks for sharing..
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Re: Is this bad treatment inevitable with the MLCer?
#31: August 31, 2011, 02:45:40 PM
Just a quick response to a quote from Aff:

Quote
Our aim is to not feel old, ugly and dried up.  Ideally we wish our SPOUSE made us feel young, beautiful and vibrant--but if they do not and someone else does...that feels good.

I agree, it is not yours/my aim to feel this which is why I guess it gets projected elsewhere.  What I mean Aff, is I don't want to feel old or rejected either! But if I look externally to get my need met via someone/somewhere else, I'll search forever.  It's like an undernourished child, who's never quite full.  It is sad really.

The only one who can ever, ever meet our needs is our self. 

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Re: Is this bad treatment inevitable with the MLCer?
#32: August 31, 2011, 07:25:40 PM
Syn - I find this stuff really interesting too.
Just started a new thread with the info on
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« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 07:26:53 PM by kikki »

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Re: Is this bad treatment inevitable with the MLCer?
#33: August 31, 2011, 08:06:34 PM
Kikki is on to something.  Keep on keeping on, lady!!
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Re: Is this bad treatment inevitable with the MLCer?
#34: August 31, 2011, 08:33:20 PM
Ha - thanks for the encouragement Thundarr!!
It's good to find a receptive bunch - my kids and friends are completely 'over' listening to my fascination with all of this  ;D
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Re: Is this bad treatment inevitable with the MLCer?
#35: September 02, 2011, 02:44:04 PM
Based on what you have written, I have a couple of questions for you. 

While I understand you feel about that quote, it does not appear you experienced the Monster behavior that so many on this forum have experienced from their MLCers.  Monster behavior can be mean and cruel.  I experienced it from my spouse, as have many on this forum.  What are your thoughts about Monster in relation to the quote?

Well the very first thing I would like to establish is that "monster" is a convenient label for the way an MLCer is behaving, and is not "who they are."  This is why I prefer to joke a bit and say they're closer to Star Trek's "Evil Twin" because it looks like them and sounds like them...but they have a goatee!  An actual monster would act in a way that is harmful, hurting people purposefully and intentionally; whereas an MLCer frequently *does* hurt those they love, but moreso out of desire to avoid their own hurt than desire to "hurt others."  In other orders, I don't think MLCers sit down and think, "Hmmm...now they hurt me for 3 years so what can I do to hurt them and tear their heart out?"  I suspect it's much more like this: "I have hurt for 3 years now and so I am going to do what I know is wrong to feel good."  (Nothing personal to the LBSs but thinking of you probably isn't part of it at all--it's like unconsidered collateral damage.) 

Now regarding the way that MLCers behave, I have been in both positions in my lifetime.  In my first marriage, my exH was diagnosed with mental illness but would seek no treatment.  As part of his mental illness he did have affairs yet being the rather faithful type that I am, I didn't realize some were emotional affairs until later.  I know of one physical affair he had around the time our daughter was born, and another that ended our marriage and destroyed our business...and during the final affair, he did behave in a way that I would call Monster (i.e., blaming me for his choices, screaming, hateful, etc.).  At the time it was occuring I thought of him more like an addict acting from addiction...kind of.  I do think that MLCers want to blame their own choices and issues on someone else--after all it couldn't POSSIBLY be them!  LOL! So regarding the quote one I think is important to remember is that on the LBS side, there is an enormous desire to *understand* this betrayal because if you understand what in the world happened...maybe you can do XYZ to avoid it and protect yourself from being hurt like that again.  It's akin to when a rape-victim says she was raped because she was dressing suggestively or in a bad part of town at night.  No she wasn't.  She could have been in sweats or in "a good part of town" and still been raped--but part of her wants VERY BADLY to understand it and then say "In order to avoid being raped, I can dress in baggy clothes and move to the suburbs" so this kind of hurt won't happen again.  That's a very natural response.  In a very similar way--sort of a natural response--when MLCers want to stop hurting they do things that in fact are very hurtful and in an effort to justifying continuing to do what they know is wrong, they assign the "BadGuy" role to the LBS and then pick fights so they can say "See?  You really ARE the BadGuy and the cause of all this...not me."  LBS want to understand and avoid this from happening again--MLC wants to shift responsibility for their own choices to someone else.  Both are commonplace, almost instinctive responses....

[As for ME not experiencing Monster behavior, you would have to check with my Dear Hubby on that.  From what I can tell and what he has told me, he felt completely cut out of my life and that was very hurtful to him but I did not do those kinds of vicious, poking until he exploded kinds of behaviors.  Still, I'll be honest--I would look to him for the answer to that one!]


Quote
Also, much of what you wrote seems to be around aging, or the feeling of aging, which we have read is a symptom of MLC.  What do you think about the root cause of MLC versus the symptoms?

From the articles:
•Preoccupation or fear of aging or death
•Vanity: Obsession with appearance
•Dissatisfaction with previous goals
•Life of Accommodation has left him feeling trapped
•Impulsive or Compulsive Behaviour
•Irritability
•Restlessness
•Substance abuse

The above list is comprised of symptoms, not causes. Aging does not cause midlife crisis--it is inevitable; midlife crisis is not.
 

You know, I agree with you--that is a list of the symptoms of MLC and/or how the MLCer usually acts, but it is NOT the root of MLC. I have to be honest and tell you that I really gave some thought to this question and whether to tell you what I really think.  I could throw out fancy, descriptive psychological terms but instead I've decided to tell you what I really think is the real root of MLC--it's sin.  As human beings, we are not perfect, we do think of ourselves and are not able to give unconditionally forever...and eventually some bit of sinful way of behaving bares it's ugly head and an internal, personal crisis is started.

I personally believe that when people marry these days in the USA and "civilized western nations" that they marry for lust or "to play house" most of the time--so they have no real idea what they are promising or how to be married.  Thus I would estimate that the large majority marry for reasons like "S/He completes me" or "I'll have my needs met" or "They make me feel good/smooshy/sexy" etc.  Note that the focus is mostly on them and their own needs, not necessarily thinking of their spouse or the fact that as a married person the call is to meet YOUR SPOUSE'S needs (no real acknowlegement that they will be responsible to another person)!  I would also estimate that many/most of the marriages today do not look over the vows and realize it is a promise you are making to the other person to know yourself well enough that you will protect them from your own bad habits and weaknesses!  Or that you are promising 100% of your affection and loyalty to them and only them for the rest of your life.  Or that you are promising to work at maintaining that loving feeling!!  Nope most marry thinking it will all just come naturally and/or that it doesn't really require work or anything on their part; whereas in real life, marriage means that you volunteer to look at YOURSELF and grow as a person and help THEM too...not try to change your spouse!  Anyway, so with a marriage that starts off focused on them, is it any wonder then that about ten years down the road there are kids and bills and fights ... and it's not feeling so "good" anymore?  So what happens?  We've all been raised that being faithful is the right thing, but along comes Other Person who makes them feel "good" again and if the focus was on their needs (in their point of view) in the marriage, then why would they NOT keep the focus ON THEM and on feeling good?

So in the end, a person hits mid-life.  Aging occurs and it does not necessarily need to lead to MLC...and I'm not saying that I think those who do not have an MLC are saints or perfect...but in the instances when it does lead to MLC I believe the catalyst is sin.  Here's why I think that.  Everyone thinks of "what's good for them" pretty naturally, so think of your own good is not in-and-of-itself bad, but when you age and think of all the things you MISSED or COULD HAVE HAD or were "cheated out of"...when you face your loss by putting responsibility on someone else rather than taking your own personal responsibility...when you do what you know is wrong (DEEPLY wrong) and continue to do it inspite of knowing it...it begins to sear your soul and allow you to continue to sin.  Choosing to think of what you missed could just as easily be changed to choosing to think of what blessing you had--so all of it...ALL of it...is a choice, and usually the MLCer has to realize that to really turn things around they have to face themselves and change themselves (their choices, their thinking, etc.)!!!  Many MLCers may not be too mature.  Many may not have good coping skills.  Many are self-centered and don't realize what a marriage commitment *is*.  But in the end, at some point the MLCers head does recognize that the flirting and teasing is WRONG and rather than stopping, controlling themselves, and doing the right thing--they choose to do what they know is wrong.  The effects of continuing to choose to do what you know is wrong is that the person does gradually transform into a new person with more "monster-esque" qualities.  From what I can see, a person can survive MLC if they make the choice to stop doing what they know is wrong, start doing what they know is right, learn some better coping techniques, face and address themselves honestly, and change the way THEY think.  The best way I know of to have that kind of 180 degree change is by the power of God.  Without God I think people can make some changes but a deep, inner change of the person needs a divine intervention.  Until the MLCer realizes that the things they are "searching for" or missed etc. are not given to them by "other people" they will continue to do anything...anything...to esccape themselves and escape responsibility for their own choices. 

In the end I believe the most successful recovery is twofold--both the LBS and the MLC need to stop pointing fingers at the other guy, look at themselves, admit what they did wrong, and with God's power, change.  If one or the other does not stop pointing fingers or won't admit that they were wrong, then any "recovery" is less successful.  Without God I believe people do try to change but it's by sheer willpower and I personally believe it's much more difficult, less successful, and possibly more superficial.  So in summary, I believe a person comes to a fork in the road in mid-life and they can choose to either do the right thing and go home and build their marriage--or they can chooes to do the "easy" thing and have their ego stroked even though they know it's wrong!  So if you narrow it down, sin is the catalyst to MLC.
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Re: Is this bad treatment inevitable with the MLCer?
#36: September 02, 2011, 03:10:11 PM
Affaircare,
I truly enjoy reading your posts....
I find your perspective enlightening and very encouraging.  Please continue to post and share with us your ideas and experience.

That said....I have a concern regarding your latest comment.  Is an Agnostic or Aetheist less likely to recover from MLC - if they have no faith in God in which to support and guide him or her?  Because the non-believer does not have "God's power" - is he or she left to struggle alone and, hopefully, recover due to their own will power and strength (virtues that the MLCer severly lacks).

This concerns me.

Thank you for all you do.

Limitless

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Re: Is this bad treatment inevitable with the MLCer?
#37: September 02, 2011, 04:05:53 PM
Thank you for your responses Affaircare.

From Affaircare
"Well the very first thing I would like to establish is that "monster" is a convenient label for the way an MLCer is behaving, and is not "who they are.""

I agree.  Here are bits from a couple of RCR's articles....one from the Monster article and one from Self and Your Spouse article.

Though Monster is a symptomatic personality of Midlife Crisis, it is not the MLCer

You did not marry the MLC Monster; you would not have married the MLC Monster.

From Affaircare
"there is an enormous desire to *understand* this betrayal because if you understand what in the world happened...maybe you can do XYZ to avoid it and protect yourself from being hurt like that again."

This is true.  I think one of the key things the LBS has to learn is that MLC is unavoidable.

From Midlife Crisis Takes Time
Regardless of what is healthiest, of what is best, of what you or anyone wants--MLCer included--a Midlife Crisis cannot be prevented. It can be prolonged by an unaccepting LBS. Acceptance can ease it. But once it has begun, the crisis must continue to completion; it is a journey to go through, not get over.

From Affaircare
"when MLCers want to stop hurting they do things that in fact are very hurtful and in an effort to justifying continuing to do what they know is wrong, they assign the "BadGuy" role to the LBS and then pick fights so they can say "See?  You really ARE the BadGuy and the cause of all this...not me.""

Agreed.....the MLCer will Project to an external source......which almost always includes the spouse.

From Affaircare
"I really think is the real root of MLC--it's sin."

I agree with this, and I am of the Christian faith, but I like to put more definition to it.  Both the LBS and MLCer are sinful.  So I asked myself why does one have an MLC and the other one not.

From Affaircare
"Many MLCers may not be too mature.  Many may not have good coping skills."

I agree with both of these......and I believe these to be linked to the root cause of MLC.  I believe it is an emotional development process.

Thank you again for your input.



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Re: Is this bad treatment inevitable with the MLCer?
#38: September 02, 2011, 04:22:16 PM
Hi Aff,

I wonder if from reading your thread, the title might have been "is this bad treatment inevitable when someone sins?"

I know I've sinned and treated others badly in the past.  Not something I'm proud of though.

Sil x
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Re: Is this bad treatment inevitable with the MLCer?
#39: September 02, 2011, 04:39:49 PM
Affaircare,

Thank you for posting this.
I agree with you
Quote
In the end I believe the most successful recovery is twofold--both the LBS and the MLC need to stop pointing fingers at the other guy, look at themselves, admit what they did wrong, and with God's power, change.  If one or the other does not stop pointing fingers or won't admit that they were wrong, then any "recovery" is less successful.  Without God I believe people do try to change but it's by sheer willpower and I personally believe it's much more difficult, less successful, and possibly more superficial.  So in summary, I believe a person comes to a fork in the road in mid-life and they can choose to either do the right thing and go home and build their marriage--or they can chooes to do the "easy" thing and have their ego stroked even though they know it's wrong!  So if you narrow it down, sin is the catalyst to MLC.
This reminds me a lot of what Bob Steinkamp says in his Quick Start Guide to Standing:
Quote
11. No matter what professional-sounding tag has been attached to your wayward spouse, the bottom line is that every husband or wife who has ever walked out on a marriage have all done so because of sin. Your beloved might have a sex, substance or selfishness problem. They might have been diagnosed, often by a professional who has never met them, with a chemical imbalance, bipolar disorder, or mid-life issues. Regardless, they still have a sin problem. Marriages are healed when spouses stop making excuses with man’s terms and start dealing with their mate’s sin problem in the prayer closet. (Does it strike you as strange that someone can attempt to diagnose your spouse without ever meeting them?)
[/i]

I know this may sound 'strange' to some on here, but I believe this.

Thanks again.
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