[StandandDeliver]

OK, despite all the great advice on this website, which I think is very helpful in getting us past BD and clearly works in some situations, I have read numerous accounts and articles (including many anecdotal and personal testimonies on this site) which suggest that for some MLCers the only thing that makes them "wake-up" and regret their decision, is when the LBS actually finds herself in a happy new relationship and doesn't even want the original marriage back anymore. Some people say that it is time that makes a difference, but by the admission of MANY MLCers themselves, it was when they saw their former spouse moving into a relationship without them that they panicked and thought "what have I done?". I think that for us LBS's this presents a bit of a conundrum. And I worry that this is more the case with" on and off's" and vanishers.

It makes me worry that for a percentage of MLCers the ONLY thing that his going to make them face themselves and reality is when reality slaps them across the face with the truth: they have lost the LBS forever. Which means that some of us may be standing when the only thing that could get the MLCer looking our way is to STOP standing and find someone new, and write off the first marriage.

I am playing devil's advocate somewhat here, I know, but I would like a discussion on this because I know that standing worked for some on here, but what if there really is no "one size fits all" approach. What if some of us are better off just cuttint our losses and finding a special new person to love for the rest of our lives because our MLCer is never going to come back anyway...if you see what I mean?

[NewBeginnings]

StandandDeliver ~ I must say that I totally agree with you.  I have read numerous articles to stating that when the MLCer finds out the LBS has someone new in his/her life, that seems to wake them up.  Then the MLCer persues the LBS.  I have thought about this alot.  I am thinking of just letting my H think I have
met someone else.  I feel like the MLCers feel like the LBS is just sitting back, waiting on them to come back.  They love that. 

I am in no way ready to date nor do I want too.  But I am tired of my H thinking I am just sitting here waiting for him to come back.  I have never told him that
I want him back.  We have never discussed anything since he left.  He's a conflict avoider and he was never one to communicate at all.  When he left he told me I deserved better and he wanted me to find someone else.    I couldn't understand that.  At that time I didn't know he was already living with someone else.
So now I know he wanted me to find someone else to take the guilt of himself.  Didn't work!  I seriously don't know how he could think I could start dating right away when he ditched me in a phone call and I never saw it coming.  Wierd.

So now I am almost into this 7 months.  So I think I may let him think I am dating.  Others may not agree with this, but I know my H better than anyone and I think it would really bother him.  I don't know........it's definately something to think about.

NB

[OldPilot]

Good topic. 

I think the one thing that I must point out is that there is a time and place for everything.

You may be right with your assessment of this issue, but that does not mean that if you just start dating that you will get you marriage back.

That is also not fair to the person you are dating.

You must be emotionally whole and know where you made your mistakes.

If not you are more than likely just going to cycle back with your new partner to the place that you are in with the old relationship.

You would still be dependent or co-dependent on another person.

I think I have read somewhere that you should wait at least 1 month for every year that you have been married.
 There is good reasons for that.

Any ways I look forward to this discussion and will try to participate.

[StandandDeliver]

OP - you are absolutely right I think. And that is why it is a catch-22. In order for some spouses to "snap out of it", the LBS's actually have to have REALLY moved on and found someone new. Which really renders the marriage almost unsalvageable. I do not think that it would be right for anyone to "use" a completely unsuspecting stranger to accomplish the reunification of a marriage.

Maybe pretending might work, but it would be hard to pull off tbh and it would be worse that humiliating if the MLCer ever caught wind of the pretense (which, I think NB is why I would caution against any obvious fabrications - if he happens to "wonder" because you are going out alot in the evenings or not answering the phone at night or something then fine, but I would avoid actively saying that you are doing something that you are not doing as a ploy.)

I just wonder if counselling everyone that if they just wait long enough their partners might come back actually interrupts the healing process (or gets it stuck after a number of months) for people whose spouses simply won't return or even experience true regret unless reality forces them to acknowledge that they have really lost the LBS for good. In which case counselling people to wait until they are emotionally healthy to start a new relationship would seem wise, giving them advice on working on co-dependancy issues remains wise, and information on healthy habits to take into a new R as well as signs of being ready to be able to handle a new R might be helpful. And maybe ways to keep working on themselves even once in a new relationship would seem to be just as necessary as giving people advice on how to salvage a marriage or reconciliation if a MLCer comes back... I know that that is not the purpose of this forum, this forum wants to see marriages saved (as do I!) but I wonder if RCR needs a "sister site" for people who feel that standing has ended, that they wish to continue to work on themselves, they want to maintain a reasonable R with the old spouse especially if children are involved and still require dealing with MLCer help for that,  but are venturing back into the world of relationships... sorry, just thinking as I write now ...

[Freddygone]

This is a very interesting subject because this is also what I have seen with other people AND my own experience. My wife also said after BD, 'you deserve someone better' but I think statements like this are fishing for you to give their self esteem a boost.
I saw with other people who have been through this that they come awake when their partner moves on with someone else. Then they are truly sad and can see the destruction for the first time, because it finally impacts on them. Until that point they feel they have a reserve parachute, YOU.
My wife has this other guy, wont give him up, so I leave to find work in another country. He is a severe case or Narcissism, very controlling obnoxious character. My daughters hate him with a vengence and they are not children.
Each time I went home (I left to work away) my wife would say 'have you met anyone else'. I would say truthfully 'Yes I meet many people at work, but they dont compare, I am very picky'.
My wife and I were still friendly and getting on OK, but I will not share my life with this other person, this narcissist.
But I went home in May and I had whilst I was away this time, been surprised to meet a lady who really had the fireworks going off, and this for only the second time in my life. This is someone you meet and instantly it is special.
So when my wife ask me the same old question, I answer truthfully...'Well actually YES, I have met someone rather special and she is very different'.
A few hours later my wife wants to 'have a talk' she asks me the details and I explain that this is really someone special, not just an ordinary person but she really lights me up and it seems it is mutual.
She is very cuddly that evening watching TV, also very unusual over the past year it has been difficult. She makes a hint, saying that reconcilliation would be hard. I agree, but say nothing is impossible.
The next morning I get ready from the spare room to go to the airport and my wife is waiting to see me off. This is unusual. Then she is in hysterics.
She does not want a divorce, wants her life back, wants everyone to come home. Tears, tears and more tears. So I ask who wants a divorce. She says her new man wants her to divorce or he wont hang around. I explain that this has clearly always been the problem, no matter how well we get on he is in the way, now after 2 years being apart enough is enough.
The following day she signed divorce papers blaming me, I disagreed and filed for Adultery naming him so that he has to sign. And now it is parked, because they dont want to face that and sign.
I think they are both in MLC and they dont want to face things, dont want to accept responsibility. But they want a reserve parachute.
Take it away.
This week my daughter tells me that her Mum is finally talking, talking. What a mess she is in.
But is she just cycling?
When you have been with a woman you love for over 30 years, it hurts like hell to see them cry, but you have to hide that pain and just be careful that you dont hurt someone else in the process.
I need to be alone a little longer, even if there are fireworks. 

[Moving Forward]

Good topic S&D,
I am 44 years old, a divorcee with 2 children, I'm self employed and quite attractive - my primary love language is 'quality time' and I am on the cusp of an amazing part of my life - I never one imagined in my wildest dreams that I would post something like this anywhere (in RL or VL!).

I have stood for my marriage, I didn't initiate divorce proceedings and when they were served I didn't fight it BUT I did the best fiscal deal I could to secure my kids future. I believe I have protected my children from most of the fallout of their Dad leaving me and marrying the OW - all this and I am almost 2 years to BD anniversary (which was also my 14th wedding anniversary).

I have a space in my life where my exH once stood - I haven't rushed out to fill that with another man in my life as I recognised very early on that I would be jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I cannot see myself going out and 'finding' a man but I believe I am in a good place (emotionally) to meet someone and take it from there.

I had a brief fling last summer with a guy - it was fun and carefree and he helped me through a very difficult time with my exH (inadvertently I have to say!!) but he is an alcoholic and I didn't want to be with a guy who was in denial about his issues. He showed me that I could take a risk and feel like the 'old me' again - it really brought out Mr Angry in my exH (hmmmm I know!). I didn't feel guilty for seeing this guy - all things happen for a reason - but I realised that I need to be in tip top emotionally healthy place for any future relationship I had to be on good solid ground.

My two children told me on holiday in July that they'd be discussing it and have decided I need a boyfriend - how touched was I that they raised it with me...we discussed it but they understand it really isn't a priority for me right now.

As far as my exH is concerned I treat him with kindness and respect and believe that when he has travelled his MLC I will be able to have some kind of relationship with him but right now that is not possible - he is not someone I would want in my life if I met him now (and I have met lots of men who are in MLC mode when I've been out and about and GALing!!).

I am still 'work in progress' and have lots of male friends but feel very strongly that I will meet someone when the time is right and that because of the hard work I've done I will be able to make he most of that relationship with a clear conscience - it could be with my exH but it wouldn't be the end of the world if it wasn't.

I wouldn't judge anyone who went out and started dating but I would counsel them that MLCers are running from pain and dealing with their issues and we need to be careful that we don't end up doing excatly the same. I have this exact situation with a friend and I can see she is on a road to self destruction trying to 'get on with her life' as it's 'my time to live' - all MLC script but I don't believe she's in MLC, I think she is in pain and just wants it to stop.....

good topic and I am really looking forward to seeing the discussion develop.

P
xx

[LearningIamOk]

I wonder the same thing also. Do they need some sort of monumental BOMB DROP themselves?  Do they get stuck where they are because they are confident that we will wait it out?  I have been jerked around by my H not knowing what he wants, thinks or feels. I think I should hit him with a waffle iron and see if he thinks or feels anything after that.

To give up on 30 yrs of marriage is painful. But it is also painful to have the hope that someday, any day now, things could turn around. It may never happen. I know I am becoming a better person because of this, but heck, can't I still have some flaws? LOL Why do I have to fix everything about me?  So at this juncture, if it is 1 month for every year together, I will be almost 60 before I can even start thinking about a new relationship. Ugh!

OP, give me a call some time in the year 2016 and we can go for coffee and see if we like each other.

[OldPilot]

I wouldn't judge anyone who went out and started dating but I would counsel them that MLCers are running from pain and dealing with their issues and we need to be careful that we don't end up doing excatly the same. I have this exact situation with a friend and I can see she is on a road to self destruction trying to 'get on with her life' as it's 'my time to live' - all MLC script but I don't believe she's in MLC, I think she is in pain and just wants it to stop.....

EXACTLY - Very well put.

OP, give me a call some time in the year 2016 and we can go for coffee and see if we like each other.

Oh I am not going to wait that long to meet you, but date  yes I will have to really think about that.

[Thundarr]

Such a timely discussion, as I recently posted an account from a former MLC W who states that she woke up once she saw that her H had found someone new, and now she is desperately trying to win him back and feels a world of guilt over what she did to both their lives.  It DOES seem like she was carrying on with no end in sight until HE moved on.  I've been debating this over and over in my head about whether or not my W would ever come to the point where she can honestly assess her own issues and turn back to me.  I know it has happened for some, but I just cannot see myself slogging through years of this and dealing with things I never thought I could.  I don't want this to kill me in the process.

I'm very interested to find out where the information came from about people waking up after their spouse had moved on.  I would not want my W to come back just to keep someone else from having me, but rather because she honestly wants to be with me.  If you could point us to (or even better copy/ paste and share on here) some other accounts of former MLCers who have stated that this is what brought them out I would greatly appreciate it.

Also, I just want to add I disagree with the "1 month for every year of marriage."  Everyone is different and should start dating when THEY feel like they're ready.  Am I ready for another R?  No.  A roll in the hay?  Maybe.  I would be curious as to what length an LBS would have to go to in order for the MLCer to wake up.

I think HB even states that her H became fearful that he would lose her for good and this is what started him turning back.  Of course, she had no one else but it was that fear in him that sparked the change.  Definitely something to explore.  As someone said yesterday, we are pioneers here!!!

[LearningIamOk]

I am delighted that you and I will meet sooner rather than later. About the dating, I will not be PURSUING. I have learned somethings here.