[Synicca]

I feel the same way.....The EA seems to be harder to get over..
I told the OM my H abused me too....It was all for the "poor me affect"

Its hard...all of it.

[kikki]

  Yeah and these OWs are so special they don't even realize they're in an R with someone who is incapable of being in an R with ANYONE right now, not even his kids,siblings, mother or wife.   Mass confusion,chaos and drama..how can that be good for them?  Isn't their bar of what's acceptable a little LOW?
 What kind of character judges are they? Why will they stoop so low to let a crazy married man move right in?  They must just hold it in until they explode......pass the popcorn....

They're a special breed these OW and OM .........  dysfunction, dysfunction, dysfunction
My H's OW is turning 40 soon - no kids and left a 16yr long abusive relationship to be with my H in this state ............  Hmmmm  Yip - clearly an OW who is a WONDERFUL judge of character.

It does still hurt very much - but hey, he's absolutely no use to me right now - so I guess we're all better off if she continues to entertain him for another year or so ............  (this is where the crystal ball would come in handy

[Standing4Myself]

synicca,. you have a unique perspective on all this..

they are very special Kikki, so true. I always tell this short story when talking about the OM that makes me laugh to this day: my BIL (a good man!) voluntarily and w/out my knowledge followed around my ex and the OM and confronted them (hoping to shock them and save my marriage)...he asked the OM what in the hell did he know about marriages and relationships...his response was that he had 4 sisters, and they were all divorced!

[LettingGo]

Popping in here with a reminder..... OW often tell the same sad story of abuse by ex boyfriend or husband.... I'd bet that 99% it's not true...

By the way, my husband's OW tried the old "LG is right! I am a pig for what I've done and I'm so ashamed. I will no longer try and win your love and keep you from your family, though I will always love you...I'm going to get a FB account so I can apologize to her and don't try and stop me because you can't!" or some similar garbage. He was crying when he read her email to me.... it was after one of their daily breakups about 5 months after the affair started.... he asked "what do you think of THAT???" I guess because he was trying to prove to me what a nice and caring person she was and I replied "I think it's a manipulation and you're falling for it like a sucker". The crying over it was disgusting!

A few months later I asked if she EVER thought of what her actions were doing to me and the kids and he hung his head and grimaced and said "No. She never gives you a second thought." Now, I know it was a waste of time to try and get him to see what a manipulator and liar OW was, cuz he was just as bad... totally selfish! These days, he says he "can't stand being up there with her (yet he stays!) and that lifestyle... the non parenting...." So, the sex is bad, he doesn't like anything about her, can't stand her family cuz they're trashy and all up in each other's business, tells me she can't and WON'T cook, and she's a bad Mom.... sounds like TRUE LOVE, LOL!!

I don't want to be known only as the "good wife who can cook" but, he does talk about it A LOT!! I guess because he is always eating in restaurants, when he is here he goes on and on about how great of a cook I am  ! A lot of times, when he's cycling towards me (every three days now) he tells me I'm wonderful at EVERYTHING!!!

So, their perspective changes for sure... he also told me he goes up to OW's because it represents FREEDOM  ! I guess freedom to F up you life??? I think what he does is PRETEND to be someone else with OW.... she doesn't KNOW him, so he can claim anything he wants... she has NO TIES to his friends or family, so how would she know other than what he tells her? I asked him why he spent his birthday at her place instead of home with hid kids, and he said he felt so guilty that he didn't want us to do anything special for his birthday because he "didn't deserve it"..... that it was EASIER to be around people YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT...

I know with him, it was an IDEA of a "fling"... short lived PA that got him to call her after she approached him, but because he held back.... trying to be faithful, it turned into an EA within their "dating" EEWWWW!! Once they cross that line of "my wife doesn't understand me and never has... she just uses me to pay the bills and my kids take me for granted and don't care about me" then they're off to the races....

I would actually be CURIOUS to know the lies OW has told him... like, I wonder if she used the "my ex baby daddy abused me" card.... I think they all do.. it's the female version of "my wife doesn't understand me".

Anyway, just giving my "inside information" on how their relationship crumbles to nothing but contempt and dysfunction but they still can't leave it.... it's really a little like what happened to US..... the perception of us as the enemy, the picking at everything we do, the dissatisfaction with us and the marriage, the frustration at feeling "trapped", until FINALLY, they break and run.... maybe that's when they get the wake up moment... the dam breaks and they just can't take it any more....so they run back to us if we're standing.

[Thundarr]

I can't imagine the lies my W must be telling those around her.  She took off and left me with the kids, so how do you justify that?!?  Tell them I have guns and threatened to kill her?  If she makes them think I'm an a-hole, then that makes her look like a bad mom.  If she tells them I'm a good person, then she looks like a bad mom.  I don't get it.  How is she finding people to say "You go, girl!!"  What the hell is wrong with this society?

[kikki]

..he asked the OM what in the hell did he know about marriages and relationships...his response was that he had 4 sisters, and they were all divorced!

S4M - that's very funny - you have to laugh or you'd cry

LG - I have often wondered about that - 99% of the OW stories of abuse not true.  Something (my intuition I guess) has always made we wonder at her stories (what little I've heard).  Do you really stay for 16years if its that bad? I doubt it ...

T - My H has managed to find himself a small bunch of people who insist that he needs to do whatever he needs to do to be 'happy'.
Society is scr*wed!

[Mamma Bear]

 KiKi, That part of society is screwed! We have grace and dignity.   On another thread I think Tinydancer was saying her H told his sister ' I'm not sure why I have to do this but I do.." 
      Nice. So I keep hearing this. They are compelled to abandon and run.  That movie inside their head must be something else. All these masks and impulses to carry out evil actions(can't call them plans bc they are not planning just acting out)
   When our spouses sit alone and reflect on each day I wonder what is going on up there in their brains.
   They must just think 'this happens all the time.'

   The pendulum swings back and forth. The anxiety and confusion spilling all over the place.
  When OW is out shopping and comes back to him she must always wonder 'what kind of mood is he gonna be in today  ' .
  My sister told me she read somewhere what happens in the one R spills onto the other R. When we interact with them and they go back to ow/oms The OP can sense something's not right!

[Anjae]

Both, my hunsband’s OW1 and OW2 where first EA followed by PA.

 “…that it was EASIER to be around people YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT...”, LG, yes, it must be. Because the only time by husband said something about OW2 was that “I couldn’t care less about her”. So, if they don’t care about OW/OM, and, after all, it was not that hard to leave spouse (and kids), how come it is so difficult to leave OW/OM?...

"my wife doesn't understand me and never has... she just uses me to pay the bills and my kids take me for granted and don't care about me" then they're off to the races....
Of course the wife does not care? How could she. She had only been with him since ever, right?...

“When our spouses sit alone and reflect on each day I wonder what is going on up there in their brains.  ” Mamma Bear, Not sure what others spouses think about when alone. I know my husband makes sure he is always busy, if he is alone home he has to be on-line chatting with many people, because “if I stop I’m gonna have to think about what I’ve done.”

Kikki, mine has managed to surround himself either with people that new about OW1 but could care less or that ever never knew be, so they think OW2 is, in fact, just his girlfriend. And, of course, the ones that new he was married and of other OW1, follow the “he said he needs a new life, that he needs to be happy”.

[LettingGo]

AnneJ, I think we are married to the same man as I've also heard the one about "if I stop I'll have to think about what I've done"....

I'm currently reading Jim Conway's "Men in Midlife Crisis", because I tend to do think backwards, LOL!! It's interesting how my husband's MLC is playing out according to script and the description of Midlife Crisis in the book... however, it is helpful to remind me that my husband doesn't want to replace me.... he might have in the beginning, that's for sure! But later on, they are simply trapped in a world they cannot understand or escape. I've been pushing hard on mine lately because I'm TIRED.... he is MISERABLE, but needs more time... that's really all he needs... time, patience, understanding. He needs contact with me and the kids, or he will have NO hope.... but it won't be the catalyst for him making a final break from the affair, although it may help him keep TRYING to get away from it.

My husband says repeatedly that he doesn't know WHY he does the things he does.... this is genuinely haunting him!! I really WISH there were a way to say "You are not alone... what you're going through happens to other men.... you can find others to talk to this about, and they won't mock you at all or judge you...." I do see moments of clarity... more and more as time marches on.

Again, as far as him stating "it is easier to be around people you don't care about", I see it as a way to remain EMOTIONALLY detached from life in general.... see, when he's with us, he sees that his kids are growing up, that we live in a tiny cramped rental instead of our former beautiful big trophy house, and that we are content, so why isn't he? By being around people that don't know him, are "lesser" than him, he feels strong, instead of weak.... when he's with me, he readily cries, and that must be scary to a man.

[kikki]

KiKi, That part of society is screwed! We have grace and dignity.  


  My sister told me she read somewhere what happens in the one R spills onto the other R. When we interact with them and they go back to ow/oms The OP can sense something's not right!

Grace and dignity - we do indeed, thanks for the reminder

That was interesting about the interactions - I hadn't ever thought about that.  What turmoil it must be .......

Aj and LG - definitely seems to be a recurrent theme - surrounding themselves with new people who don't know us, are 'lesser' than him so he feels strong

My H let it slip a few weeks ago 'don't feel abandoned, I'm always more here with you than anywhere else' (Huh? I didn't ask for clarification!)