[crazyforhim]

True, I think if my spouse never left I wouldn't have looked deep into myself and see what I needed to fix.
The OW obviously gave them something we couldn't at that time. Not that I would ever say that infidelity is excusable but it has made me see ALOT of things that can be fixed and standing for my marriage and knowing that our marriage will be a million times better upon H's return is certainly something to look forward to.

It does really boggle my mind that the OW doesn't see what we see. Can they really be totally oblivious to the man standing in front of them- very questionable as to why they stay for so long in the relationship with all that H does

[Anjae]

Not so certain the alienator gave them something we couldn't at the time. Maybe more they though we couldn 't. My busband said, right after BD, that he thought I no longer loved him. Could not say why he thought that, said maybe he had fell it but he was wrong.

OW does not see what we see for a number of reasons. With my husband,  OW1 lived away, they only saw themselves on weekends or when they would go travel. They never lived a daily life together. It was always wonderful and high. OW2 sees a man that is great, so social, capable of giving her a social circle she would never be part of. She sees all the glamour of that nightlife, clubbing, meeting people that tunr up in certain magazines, people that are talked about in a certain circle (DJ's, some musicians, no one really that famous, but people with a more glowing life than next door joe). Or a life that looks more glowing than next door joe one. Would say that she does not want to leave husband not let him out of that life. Would loose all the shine and attencion.

Husband makes sure he always keeps OW2 dazzed with so much glamour and "fame". OW, like the MCLer, they only see what they want to see.

[crazyforhim]

But once the honeymoon phase is over they must see cracks in the foundation and it's not so rosie dosie.
I know that happens in every relationship (the honeymoon phase fizzles) but I can't believe they see through all the lies and deception and just let it go. Who does that? I guess only insecure, manipulative, desperate and needy people.

[TrustingMyHP]

I'd like to add some thoughts to this discussion. 

Obviously, there are "differences" between an MLC affair and an affair that does not involve one or both affair partners being in MLC. 

I strongly believe, however, that getting romantically/physically involved with any person who is married, even if they're separated, is a dangerous, dishonest thing to do and I have reservations about the character of anyone who would make the decision to do so.

Even if the story the married person is telling the affair partner is the most heart rending, horrible thing imaginable, and even if it's all true, I believe people who respect the rights of others would chose not to become an affair partner until the other person had honorably and with honesty ended their marriage.

All affairs involve lying, manipulation (usually of the clueless spouse,) betrayal of vows, excruciating pain, and potentially deep damage to children, if there are any.  Even affairs that result in reconciliation or never trigger a separation of the married couple do major, long-lasting damage, especially in the area of trust.

Can affairs be "good" for some marriages in that issues that needed addressing are finally brought out into the open?  Yes, that's true, but I refuse to believe that an affair is the only way such issues could have been addressed. 

While I agree that my H's affair has forced me to do some very serious soul-searching and has afforded me the opportunity to deeply look at what were the dysfunctional ways of relating to each other that contributed to my H's crisis, I cannot say that the affair was the only way this work could have been done.

Perhaps with more time I will have a different opinion on this.  Perhaps I will come to see that my H's affair was the only way I was going to "wake up" to the things I was doing, or not doing, that contributed to my H's decision to leave me and live with someone else.  Perhaps.

But at this point in my journey, I still think the price has been too high--for me, for my H, for my D,  for the OW's H (who she divorced to be with my H) and, I strongly suspect, for the OW's adult children.

While I think most divorces could and should be avoided, I realize that some are justified.  Affairs, however, are dishonest, destructive, cruel methods of extricating oneself from an impossible marriage.  I don't believe anyone should be a part of an affair, no matter how "dead" or dysfunctional the marriage might be, nor no matter how much in love they are with the married affair partner.

My 2 cents.

TMHP
 

[Anjae]

Trusting, I do not think an affair is the only way some issues could be addressed. Nor that it is a good thing to happen. But if it does, at least may we get something positive out of it.

Well, been separated for over 5 years, husband is a vanisher for over 3 years, lives with OW2. would say it is hardly disonest if I get involved with someone... Leave MLC aside for a minute and imagine we have a spouse that is forever confined to a mental institution. Shall we remain the rest of our lives without affection and ML? Shall we divorce our ill spouse?...There are many shades of grey.

Agree one should not, in theory, become involved with someone that is still married even if the terrible marriage was really terrible (and lets not fool ourselves there are really terrible marriages) but theory and reality are different things. Lets also not forget that some people marriages are just an arrangment, that both spouses are aware that there will be affairs (well, in these cases in does not count as infidelity).

crazy, don't know. they seem to be able to outlive honeymoon fase. husband is with OW2 for more than 3 years, lives together for 2 or more. They moved house less than 2 years ago, so, the new flat must had gave them a high...

[Synicca]

I think...for me because I have been on both sides of the coin here...There is NO excuse for an affair..none!

No matter what the cheater tells the other person...if the OM/OW KNOWS that person IS married..it should never take
place...period. If someone is lied too...and that person has NO clue the other is married...then you cant blame them
BUT, if at ANY time they find out...then it should be stopped then...

I have NO excuse for what I did...but the OM knew I was married...He should have walked away that moment he found out, regardless of how I felt..just my .02

[crazyforhim]

TMHP

I couldn't have said it better myself!

But true as there are other ways that self evaluation could have been brought to the table- in my situation
I wasn't even thinking I did anything wrong at that point. Upon his leaving I had to re-evaluate and that's when the
soul searching begun...not sure if it would have happened if he didn't leave (but will never know)
CFH

[Anjae]

period. If someone is lied too...and that person has NO clue the other is married...then you cant blame them
BUT, if at ANY time they find out...then it should be stopped then...

OW2 was lied to. Did not seem to matter. She is lasting more than OW1 that new he was marriied. Maybe OW2 not knowing from the start is what made husband to run to court, a "see, i'm in this for real, i'm going to court and all"...don't know who had the idea of them living together...living together is another way of saying "see, i'm really in this for real. We moved in together, what moredo you need to be sure I'm really into you?". 

[crazyforhim]

Do they really see all the progress we are making? Cause they avoid us so much for fear of us
seeing that they are truly unhappy- do they see that we are becoming content with ourselves and our lives.
And does it scare them? Probably not enough to come running back but hopefully enough to shake some sense into them...

[Anjae]

Do they really see all the progress we are making? Cause they avoid us so much for fear of us
seeing that they are truly unhappy- do they see that we are becoming content with ourselves and our lives.
And does it scare them? Probably not enough to come running back but hopefully enough to shake some sense into them...

Don't know how much they see. Have realised the more they fear us,  the more they mess up, the more they run. Husband did not spoke to me for years on end (nor I to him) but he always left is gmail chat on. About two months ago, already into his second fault divorce process (another wonderful work of projection and lies), I had to ask him a thing (money related). For the first time, in 5 years, he closed the chat and never opened it again.

Don't know the real reason why he did so. Angry? Aware of the fool he has made of himself again?...

Think it scares them when they see us GALing even if we are going throught hard times. It would scare me if I had done what they have. Would make sure I run as fast as I could very, very far away.

Not sure how/when they manage to stop the fear and gain courage to aproach us again. If ever...