[Standing in Patience]

LG,

I read your post and wonder where the 1 in 100 stat comes from. Geez, I hope that the odds of him returning to our m much better than this. My h keeps referring to d happen in 1 in 2 marriages.

Well, I look at our long standing m and if he can make progress through this "tunnel" maybe h can see the damage he has done to our m, the children and in his own life.

He still can't see anything. Has mentioned that he is happy despite not seeing his children. Yes, I am sure his life is much "simpler". Just work and OW. Sigh.

Really, how can he be "happy"?

[Surviving]

Not to get off subject,  but I am still very uncertain about my H being in MLC, or is he just a WAS. The thing that perplexes me the most is that my H has yet to admit that he is involved emotionally and physicaly with OW. Even though all the evidence is there. This is in sharp contrast to the H's that are discussed on the forum who have admitted to the A and have even discussed OW or said things about her to the LBS. His excuse for the "friendship" as he calls it is that she has issues and he is helping her out. (meanwhile his family and kids are falling apart).

I really would like to get some insight on this. What makes some deny, deny, deny, while others admit and are open about OW?

Is this refeltive of the type of affair, the ow's personality or H's ability to be a pathalogical liar(lol). Does this give any insight to the dynamics of H relationship with OW.

The fact is, although he denies the relationship he has done things and made decisions that clearly show that they are involved. Like getting an apartment right next door to OW. Not sure if that's his way of showing me w/out having to say it.
He has never asked for a divorce and if I bring up divorce he gets angry and defensive. He said to me a couple months ago: I dont want a divorce and if you think I will ever agree to a divorce you have it all wrong. He confuses me! He's practically living with OW and we rarely speak but he doesnt want a divorce?? I just dont get it.

He has some symptoms of MLC but on the other hand his constant lying about his R with OW really makes me wonder.

If it is MLC, do the ones that deny take longer to come through the tunnel? theres just not much said about H's who keep denying the OW R. It's been 14 months since BD. By now I would think that he should at least be honest about OW.

[LettingGo]

Standing, that is not a stat... it was a QUESTION.... "what IF it is one marriage out of a hundred, for whatever reason that makes it through this process, then what if YOU and your husband are the ONE?" It's a question RCR asks in her standing articles...

Surviving, I don't understand how you can think your husband's behaviors fall into a "normal" category.... just read what you wrote! Read the articles here, number one. Don't compare your situation with those that are WAAAAAAY further along.... things change A LOT!

Though my husband no longer lies about where he's going on the weekends (because he ran out of excuses a few weeks ago when he claimed he had to go to Toronto on business on FIRDAY.... it was an elaborate lie that was even too ridiculous for him to convince himself of!) he DENIES that OW is his girlfriend.... I ask him if he thinks SHE thinks he's her boyfriend and he says "probably"... he is unwilling to break up with her and experience the withdrawal and depression that will come with it... OW is an emotional blackmailer and that keeps clinging boomerangs, like mine, hooked for a long time after they don't want to be there...

The denial is because they do NOT WANT TO BE DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING in their hearts... the don't want it to be true... it is a fantasy...they do NOT want it to be true, so they lie to themselves and everyone else. Your husband tells you he doesn't want a divorce because he sees this as a TEMPORARY situation.... he is confused in his head and doesn't know what is going on with him... he has all sorts of compulsions that confuse him... so in HIS mind, he knows he wants to be with you in the future... You may have a clinging boomerang, or just a boomerang.... read RCR's latest blog articles and you'll see some of the hallmarks of a clinger... probably too soon for you to tell.

[LifeGoesOn]

it was a VERY long time before my h would admit the A. Even after he moved in with her! Even longer b4 he would talk about it at all.

The lies support the justification/deniial/compartmentalisation in his head. he confuses you b/c he is confused. lies and denial prevail through out replay.

Try to drop any expectations you may about time, time in tunnel with BD, any expectations at all! There are rough timelines written somewhere, but mine has not followed them at all.

Also drop D talk. If he wants one, he will get one.

[With Gods Help!]

Hi surviving my h didn’t admit o/w even when i threw him out he still denied it he left for 6 wks and was living with her....he came back and 10 tens day later my D18 at the time now 20 saw his phone with her name flash up.....so she read the message and told me 2 days later...........the poor girl was tormented by what she saw but didn’t want to break my heart..........she said when saw she dad and how he was with me...it tore her apart she said mum i only told you cos dad wouldn’t.......apparently she told him she the text......saying why have you left me you know we love each and d6 was getting used to you she even let you put her to bed ...........that is how fecked up these o/w are my h could have been child molester but she allowed him to put her d to bed after such a short time together..........a few months later i  a read text when he started seeing her again.......saying but you said you was goner be D's daddy well you better tell her you’ve left us cos im not.........i was fuming she enabled my h to destroy his kids life and yet wanted him to have compassion for a child that didn’t belong to him........as you see all this is emotional blackmail laid on an already confused and guilty man........they know how to do it think these o/w must have a script too........Don’t believe anything your h says.................maybe hes waiting the 2 yrs for a divorce that way he can D with break down in marriage ......maybe he doesn’t want a D but feels you may D him for adultery if you find about o/w..........only your h knows why hes doing this ....................its sad to say but as OP says believe nothing of what they say and only half of what you seexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx   

[Surviving]

Thanks lg, lgo and wgh,

It's not taht Im trying to determine movement through the tunnel as much as I wonder if it's really MLC. It's the denying of the OW R that really confuses me. Even though BD was 14 months ago he has been involved with OW for over 2 years now. I just think by now it's time to stop the lies.

Thanks for sheding some light on this for me. As LG says, his behavior is certainly not "normal", though I dont know what normal is when your H leaves you for another woman...

[Standing in Patience]

LG, phew. Thank G. I am feeling much better now.

Any how, my h is paying for health insurance and sending $ and never used the d word so I believe he, we and the children are in a holding pattern.

I picture h waiting on the tarmac for the pilot (God) to talk to h (improved and through the tunnel), ready to take off down the runway and coming back to w, marriage and family. Hopefully, there is plenty of fuel still in the 767's tank. Only ONE airplane ticket is needed.

Standing, I believe it is mlc and not WAS since my h would never leave his children.

[Anjae]

My husban's OW1 was 30 he was 36, OW2 is 36 he is 41. Nor OW1 neither OW2 are prettier than I am.

Firstly I dont think that divorce statistics can be applied to MLC and how long the relationship with the OP will last. This is not a comparison that can be clearly made.
The characteristics of a MLC are fairly clear and follow a script we see described many times on this forum.

I think you may be right, Freddy.

Normally I believe someone in MLC either meets another person in MLC OR meets a Narcissitic character who sees their weekness and wants to control or 'save' them. The alienator can indeed be after finance and seek to control for this purpose. The MLC may see the OP as a person who needs to be 'saved' by them. They form a symbiotic relationship and they feel wonderful and have no guilt (in early stages). They don't see the hurt they give to their spouse and children. They explain it away as it is too hard to face.

This does not last forever however, but it does last through the stages of MLC. BUT eventually one of the two people will start to see that this situation is not sustainable. They see the damage and they should then be past the half way stage.
A Narcissist becoming more comfortable in the relationship will then become more controlling and exploit the weak one more, not 'saving' at all.

Yep, even if my husband is a vanisher I’m starting to see sighs that OW2 is calling the shots. And it all pretty much about her.

However this can take some time, maybe a few years, because they can maintain the play acting and symbiosis for a long time (if they don't live together). The closer they are may shorten the time?

I don’t know if the closer they are can shorten the time. OW1 lasted less than the time husband has been living with OW2.

Also they will work together and everyone else becomes the enemy, until the enemy becomes from within their relationship.

I was thing about this today. So far, husband and OW2 have been working against me and everything that is so “terrible” from his past, but a time will come when they will become each other enemy. I, on the other hand, will not be an enemy of husband or OW2.

The problem then becomes when the MLC starts with liminality and starts to see the damage caused to friends and family. They could quite believe that as the LBS may not be receptive to reconcilliation, that they are stuck and cannot repair the enormous damage and become very unhappy. They may feel completely lost and in despair.

They are already very unhappy and in despair. They will get more unhappy, lost and in despair.

Maybe at this point the alienator cannot fix or 'save' the MLC any more and they become the enemy?

Here I think that the alienator can not save or fix the MLCer but the MCLer can become attached to the alienator because of being afraid of the LBS reaction or because the LBS has moved on. MLCer will feel lost and may prefer to stay in a pushy controlling relashionship with the alienator than on his/her own.

But the LBS should not be too receptive immediately to reconcilliation or we head for a sorry future of being dominated by bad behaviour from the MLC.  If we consider reconcilliation then rules have to be firmly applied. But a closed door may be accepted by the MLC and they may not ask again.

Agree, rules and boudaries have to the firmly applied.

They will be very vulnerable at this time if they can summon the courage.
In reality reconcilliation WILL be difficult for the couple , but repairing damage may not be so difficult if the LBS has been calm and followed advice on this forum. Remember an LBS is often much stronger than an MLC if they are standing.

Again, agree, the LBS, is standing (in whatever that means to the LBS) is much stronger than the MLCer. However I think repairing the damage will still be very difficult.

The worst thing through all this is to confront the alienator, this gives them power and creates the atmosphere of LBS being the enemy and enhances their symbiosis.
The best way for a LBS to deal with an alienator is to recognise that they are a symptom only and not the illness. Ignore them completely, this takes away their power and we LBS must accept that this illness needs to have the temperature taken out of it by reducing the heat.

Yes, never, never confront the alienator. Let him, her, alone. It will only gives them power. And, if like me, the alienator comes in the middle of the faul divorce your spouse is having against you, let your lawyer deal with the alienator in the court. Don’t engage with the alienator.

This is why we have to somehow get our composure, retain our sanity and think carefully so we don't react in anger to things that happen and things that are said. We LBS head for self improvement for ourselves and to prepare for our next stage with or without.

Exactly. We are preparing for the next stage, with or without the spouse. That is a very important, and hard, thing for us to learn but we must do it.

[Freddygone]

Thank You AnneJ,
I was beginning to wonder if I had it right.
This has been a struggle for me to understand as it is clear the alienator in my case is a very clever ruthless man out to destroy and gain all he can, whilst pretending he is 'saving' my wife.
While I struggle to regain financial stability after a year with no work, my wife has been demanding more and more money and brings court cases because she says she has no money which I now have to answer.
She says she needs 5000 per month, Oh and a replacement car.
Now when it comes to Financial statements being submitted it seems there is a share account accumulated of almost 25000 pounds whilst I have no savings and am supporting my family home, wife and two daughters in separate apartments  at University.
She (or he) is demanding the family home be sold (which is in Trust to my daughters) and ongoing maintenance.
They are clearly in cloud cuckoo land as my contract ends at the end of the year. I have no incentive to work once my daughter finishes at UNI.
Clearly this is not the action of my wife, dealing in shares is not anything she would know how to do, or what to do. This is deceit and comes from the alienator. He leads her into untruth and unscrupulous strategy.
So I think I need to allow the lawyer to deal with the alienator and expose his tactics. For me to do it would be counter productive.
I have not brought these legal cases or raised divorce proceedings but I must defend each. It is like fencing.
But through this we feel we are being attacked and doubt our sanity. This is not my wife doing these things, but she is being directed whilst she is weak. He has made her break communications with me because we were getting on so well.
She is simply a puppet.
Now I despair because I have successfully restored the financial stability since no work in 2009 yet my wife still spending. (Seven holidays since January 2010.
This year has been hard but I think finally we have no overdraft or debts.  I have 4 months remaining to retain something for next year when again I may have no work.
A Narcissistic alienator is very cunning and charming, but most people see through them quite quickly. But in most cases I believe they are quite successful in acquiring assets from others, then finding an excuse to dump the person they have saved.
They possess no empathy towards the LBS or children of the marriage and are often themselves victims of past abuse.
They are and can be dangerous people and I think you can only use the law to stop them.
They will cling and dominate and will be hard for a week MLC to get away from.
There are articles about Narcissistic alienators which I spent a long time reading and like MLC they follow the same but different characteristics. In the articles they refer to the MLC as being the host to the alienator as the behaviour is seen as parasitic.
I guess I was very unlucky that my MLC wife met this one.
Also his partner at the time (together for 17 years) was also very unfortunate (or fortunate) and was discarded so easily. I hope her health improves now she is away from him.
He will do it again and dump my wife if things are not going to his plan. We will see.     

[Foxberry]

Hi FG,

My H's OW is very clever and manipulative too....they all are, as so many people wiser than I have said, who goes out with either a married man or woman anyway?  I'm not sure if my H's OW is a Narcisst or not, all I know is she has been clever and cunning and I refuse to contact her in any way that would only empower her....You need to protect yourself financially as I intend to do.... in the Uk, unfortunately that will mean Divorce...but I have to protect myself from not just H but OW too.

Stay strong - lots of love to you]
Foxy xx