[WarriorPriestess]

After reading all the comments here I now no longer know if my H is MLC or just WAS

He did say the LYBNILWY and said he doesnt know what hes doing or why and that he just has to do it. Has said on other occassions how good I have been to him and he doesnt want to hurt me ( too late)

He also said he didn have an OW, but was interested in 2 women at clubs he frequents

He also said was something wrong in M for past 18mths, Thiught it was a rough patch but did nothing about it and didnt rasie it with me

so,,,WAS or MLC?

MLC.  This sounds a lot like the BD from my low energy H.  Note specifically the confusion and compulsion behind the ILYBINILWY type BD.  That is one of the key factors of MLC.

[MsZing]

thanks WP. I was getting confused. I sort of feel with MLC there may be hope at the end of the tunnel. WAS? not so sure about any hope.

Odd thing is, every time he comes over, he always says, " I really love you, you know that? "

[kaffe diem]

MsZing, the one thing to note is, for the most part, the work the LBS should do regardless of MLC or WAS is pretty much the same.

While confusion does appear to be a tell tale sign of MLC, a WAS who is not quite ready to hold up the D card might ask the LBS to slow down, thus confusing the LBS and thinking the WAS might be confused...

For me, the hardest part of not knowing would be that with MLC, there is to some degree no right or wrong that a LBS can do to change things.  MLC just has to take its course.  So patience is pretty much the only thing the LBS can do...

Whereas with a WAS, the sooner a LBS can make positive changes in themselves (for themselves, of course, not as a tactic) and be consistent with those positive changes so they "stick"...  the better...  the WAS will notice (the MLC is just confused so wouldn't really notice these things in any positive way) and might start thinking they would be a fool to leave the LBS...  part of the reason why, MLC or WAS, it's said to do your best to keep the road home, pave and smooth...  because if the MLC label is too quick to be pasted when perhaps its a rational WAS, a LBS who stands STILL is likely to remain unattractive and the WAS will continue on their path...

I don't want to put fear into people who jumped on the MLC label for their spouse...  again, the work is the same, because while it might be futile for a MLCer, because the line can be so fine sometimes, the LBS might best work from the perspective that they have a rational WAS...

Having said that, I wouldn't say your H isn't MLC, MsZing...  as WP points out, he could be low energy...  but without monster and I think maybe more projection (blaming you for everything that's gone wrong in the M)...  IDK...  Yes, I know there's MLC (the clingy, boomerang) that seem to be martyr...  and then there's also the aspects of indifference...  not caring how you or others feel...  like in the case of MLCers with kids, they really believe there will be no ill effects on the kids...  yet they will see other couples with kids getting divorced and will talk about the poor kids and how they'll be negatively affected...

[kaffe diem]

thanks WP. I was getting confused. I sort of feel with MLC there may be hope at the end of the tunnel. WAS? not so sure about any hope.

Odd thing is, every time he comes over, he always says, " I really love you, you know that? "

Both MLC and WAS can swing either way...

With WAS you CREATE time and use the delays of legal proceedings to provide more time to work on yourself and become an attractive option for the spouse, but NOW is the time to act...  WAS can turn around in short order...  nothing to say it could take a few months or a year in some cases...

With MLC time...  time...  time...  what is time, anyhow...  but just a measure of the universe floating through the infinite space...  with MLC, patience is your enemy...  if you have none...  don't bother...  time is the only thing that gets the MLCer through the tunnel...  but on the down side of MLC...  if one has the patience...  if you wait the 2 or 3 or 5 years it might take your MLCer to finally get to the other side...  unfortunately, you may not like what comes out...  the MLCer may still not want to be with you and there was nothing you could have done to prevent that...  it's a crap shoot...  but hopefully the LBS will have worked on themselves and at least tried to be a great option for the awakening MLCer and if that doesn't happen, then the LBS is ready for the next R...

[WarriorPriestess]

thanks WP. I was getting confused. I sort of feel with MLC there may be hope at the end of the tunnel. WAS? not so sure about any hope.

Odd thing is, every time he comes over, he always says, " I really love you, you know that? "

There is always hope MsZing.   

And that statement just shows how confused he is.  If he really loves you why is he doing this?  He told you at BD-  He doesn't know why but he has to do it anyway.  That is the truth.  He is on his own journey now to work on his own issues.  But he wants you to know that he does love you.  This is not about you.  It is about him.

And positive changes you make now will help pave the way regardless of whether he is a MLC or WAS.  Either way I would follow the DB techniques of focusing on yourself, getting a life, and not pursuing.  You will need to take your own journey towards healing and becoming whole at this time now.  One day at a time sweetie.  *hugs*

[kaffe diem]

And positive changes you make now will help pave the way regardless of whether he is a MLC or WAS.  Either way I would follow the DB techniques of focusing on yourself, getting a life, and not pursuing.

lol...  just thinking about that...  maybe there's a litmus test for someone if they're brave enough to try...

Tell a WAS that you hate them...  they'll probably believe you...

Tell a MLCer that you hate them...  and they'll probably think you're pursuing them because you love them...

 

[kaffe diem]

I was going through some info and realized that above, I had indicated that because we all understand the MLCer is in a fog, and that time really is the only resolution to MLC, that what the LBS does while the spouse is in MLC doesn't really matter...  and that's not entirely true...  even though if we do everything "perfect", the MLCer may still choose a life independent of the LBS...

but on another thread, Hearts Blessing had provided a reality check that while it might be fun to entertain ourselves at the expense of the confused MLCer, that often enough, they really DO remember, at least what others did to them (even though they may not remember things THEY did):

"..a wrong word or action at  wrong time, can cause them to "stick" in the tunnel.  That's not to say you do not need to change, you do; but these types of "head games" such as what I outlined above are to handled carefully and thoughtfully."

I've also read that the MLCer can actually "run further back" into the tunnel when they have a negative experience on their way out...

So like a WAS, there should be caution with MLCers, that the LBS do what they can, early and often, to work on themselves and keep the road paved and smooth...

[MsZing]

KD, love your idea of alitmus test...LOL

WP Im not in such a bad headspace today and thanks for the support. I was thinking over the week and I think part of my feelings apart from feeling sick, is that I made the mistake of trying to "rescue" him by sending a collage I had put together for  a focus group I was attending. It was a round about way of me trying to remind him he had to do one for the group he was attending so he would get paid. Needless to say, he would have seen right through it for what it was and he didnt contact me that week.

I need to disconnect

[StandandDeliver]

Kaffe

As suggested in the first post, it appears to the LBS that the MLCer is rewriting history, yet in their mind, their perspective...  THEIR history...  is correct...

I know that this is going back a few pages, but I wanted to address the re-writing history thing. I agree that we all have our subjective ideas about our history, but I would add that there is a re-writing of history as well as confusion in their heads about the revisions as well as a complete turnaround from the things they were saying only a couple of years before.

For instance, about 2 years before BD (and before H really entered his crisis) he would regularly tell me that we were SO LUCKY to have found each other and to be in a relationship where we have such good communication with each other - a real meeting of the minds (his words). 14 years into a R he is still saying this.

Two years later, at BD the revision - we don't communicate, understand each other, we are conflict avoidant, he has ALWAYS felt this way. So - either he is rewriting history or he spent 14 of our 16 years being a liar - who pronounced how great our R was without any pressure from me to do so. Futhermore at BD, I receive a letter from H saying we have been lovers, friends, soulmates and it breaks his heart to hurt me. So - we were lovers, friends, and soulmates who never understood each other or communicated, who he doesn't love and never did. Does that sound like normal logic?

Of course, I have my own perspective on our marriage and it is naturally subjective too. But - I KNOW that we did communicate very well with each other for many years until we didnt (at a time that I can now clearly see his attitudes began shifting and a crisis was beginning). Furthermore, we were lovers, friends and (dare I use the term?) "soulmates". So he DID love me, or I could not have been those things to him...
We all WRITE our own history of course. It is the complete turnaround revision the RE- write that marks a crisis IMO. Of course he believes what he says about it now, he is not overtly lying - he believes his rewritten version. It is just that it is a rewrite from everything he previously professed to believe...

I don't know if I am being clear here, but this is how I see the difference - we all have our versions of how things went down, but the MLCer changes his own version to suit his current behaviours...

[MsZing]

Stand
I know exactly what you are saying. A few months before BD ,H was saying how good we were together and how we always had fun, then at BD its: Things havent been right for the past 18mths. Thought it was a rough patch but its not.

What? Talk about shocked. 3 months prior we were  holding hands over dinner ,him kissing my hands saying he loved me and was glad he married me.