[Anjae]

Anne - Are you saying he took 'all' the money/assets?    Are you able to get it back and can he actually come up with it if/when ordered to?

Yes, he wiped the bank accouts clean and even took my atm and credit cards along (he was very violent that they). Our assets are cultural joint projects, they have a value that also needs to be split. When he left they were broken (they depend of the criativeness of both of us) so he must be give half of how much they are worthy.

Well, he needs to return my share. Plus pay alimony and a settlement/compesation for the break of the marriage. Don't know if I'm able to get ir all back but part, yes. Can he come up with it if ordered to? I would have to say maybe not. Don't now for sure. His grandmother died and he inherit (don't know how much), so maybe he has founds. Problem is, he inherit while we were still married, half of his inheritance is mine.

He has no idea of the touble he got himself into. He was already ordered to pay alimony and he refused. If he will not pay the court will seize any assets he has just of himself (he has some property from before we were married) until he pays what he owns. He may also be forced to sell is before marriaeg assets if he does not manage to come up with my share of the money.

He is beyond lost. Also, he, like many MCLers, is a big spender. By now he had spend tens of thousand, if not in the hundreds, of euros. With himself and OW1, but more OW2. House, things for the house, clothes, shoes, presents for OW, traveling around europe and vacations with OW, gadgets, dinners in fancy restaurants, etc., plus court fees and, of course, there is still all the money he has to give back.

He has 3 jobs!!!! and very little rest! What a great life, right?  NOT!| 

Some MCLers do manage to ruin it all. Like HB said, even themselves.

[HeartsBlessing]

Anne,
I never said you made it hard on your husband on purpose; his actions actually forced you to have to make the financial aspects of this divorce hard on him; if that makes sense.

For every action there is a reaction, and for every action there is a consequence.

If he'd been willing to do what was right by you; financially, you would not have had to use the law to get what you are entitled to because of having been his wife for so long.

I've often read about how easy it was and is to get a divorce; and it didn't used to be that way; husband's and wives were held accountable for the treatment of their spouses; at one time it was not easy to get divorced; the criteria back in the day was quite strict; not like now.  It seems to me, things have gotten worse and worse as time has gone on.

Sometimes, the LBS is called upon to deal out consequences toward the MLC'er' because it should NEVER be easy to just slide out  of a marriage and leave the LBS destitute with nothing.  Your willingness to stand firm and  to call him to the carpet of accountability in that way; was what had made this harder on HIM; not necessarily on you.

And when you get done with him; HE may the one who's destitute NOT you.

That's neither here nor there; I had a strong feeling you already knew what I might say; but needed it to be said anyway so you would have confirmation of having done the right thing in your own situation.

And, yet, and I know this is going to sound totally contradictory, something in me tells me that, once divorce is final, after some time as passed and he realizes I’ve moved on without him, he will “come ou” of it, and may, in fact, became a good friend. But he will not “come out” unless he finds himself divorce and at total loss. Sad, I know.

This is not contradictory nor surprising; PRIDE and ARROGANCE are two of the biggest  obstacles a MLC'er will face; and these will often prevent them from admitting their mistakes.

Yet, the total loss your husband will face, I believe will include his OW2 kicking him to the curb completely, given some time....in other words, he'll have to find himself completely divorced from you, bereft of money; and his "current companion" will walk away from him as well; apparently he will lose everything before he awakens; IF he ever does awaken; there is always the chance he may NOT awaken; and even IF he awakens; it's still up in the air what he may do after that, Anne.

Remember he will still have choices to make; just as you have choices as well.

In everything we face; a choice will always exist.

Take care of yourself.

[Anjae]

HB,

Yes, it makes sense that the financial aspects of the divorced made me made things hard on him. Or better, as you said yourself, he is the one who made them hard on himself. Had he be willing to do what was right no need of bring in the law or be hard.

I’m not finding it any easy to get a divorce. What I feel is that, in general, most people (not talking about the people here in the forum) out there stop getting the relevance of a husband to behave fairly with a wife or vice-versa. Like if it is wrong to have your legal rights meet or that, “ah! Well, what is the problem, everybody gets divorced this days. He/she is just following his/her happiness. You know, people fall in love…”…

Grant, people fall in love. People have affairs. People want to be happy (have the right to be). None of those things equals spouse mistreatment or abandonment.

“Sometimes, the LBS is called upon to deal out consequences toward the MLC'er' because it should NEVER be easy to just slide out of a marriage and leave the LBS destitute with nothing.  Your willingness to stand firm and to call him to the carpet of accountability in that way; was what had made this harder on HIM; not necessarily on you.” Could not agree more.

Don’t want,  nor need, to have him end up destitute, just because of revenge. But what is mine, must be mine. Yes, there is the possibility he will end up being the one financially destitute, not me. Because, the way I see it, he is, at the moment (and since he got involved with OW1) the one morally and emotionally destitute. He is even on happiness bankruptcy. So, in my view, he has it must harder than me. My problem is just a money one. In time that will be sorted out. His are of a much greater order. And he is the one that needs to solve them.

Yes, I already knew it. But, yes, need it to be said to have confirmation I’ve done the right thing. I knew I have. My lawyer has agreed with my decision, so have my family and very close friends.

If he, and others MCLers, will, at least when out of the tunnel and able to process, not cast aside pride and arrogance, life will not be smooth. Nor will the emotional turmoil go away.

Think there is a possibility that the “current companion” will walk away before the man finds himself divorced and bereft. It may only took her to see things starting going south on the money/divorce agreement department. Or maybe she will stay on his side till the end of his divorce…Or even maybe he will turn against her and star saying “this is all your faul. You’ve got me the lawyer (husban’s lawyer is a friend of OW”, said it was alright to use your address…”

There is however one thing that I think makes it more difficult for husband to get out of the tunnel, he become quite “famous” and “successful” in his new jobs line. He is “the MAN”, there are lots of people (who did not knew us and know nothing about the real he) that think he is great, he is a sort of underground rock star, so, the adrenalin that comes with all that attention, coupled with MLC is a lethal cocktail. His “success” and “fame” and the perks that come with it, make him a magnet for any OW. OW2 does not want to loose any of that. So, she may give a fight to have him keep all his status and help him not give me any money. But, anyway, that is their problem. Think they will end up having some lovely fights and all will come crumbling down.

Yes, I will take very good care of myself.

Hugs and thanks so much, HB

[Thundarr]

Going back a few posts, I think HB (great to have you back!! Love ya!!!!!!) may have been referring to my comment about becoming the opposite. In my witch, part of my W's falling into shadow involved changing political parties and views, turning her back on our faith and de-prioritizing parenting.  SHE became the opposite of who she was and my comment was simply stating that I would not do those things even if it meant that we D.  I would. Ever stop being true to myself.

What HB explained was similar to what MWD calls the 180, and I HAVE done that.  In fact, I think that's why my W is so comfortable with me now.  I hope it pays off in the future, but I know it's mainly for me and it really has helped.

Apologies to both OP and HB for any miscommunication.

[StandandDeliver]

There is however one thing that I think makes it more difficult for husband to get out of the tunnel, he become quite “famous” and “successful” in his new jobs line. He is “the MAN”, there are lots of people (who did not knew us and know nothing about the real he) that think he is great, he is a sort of underground rock star, so, the adrenalin that comes with all that attention, coupled with MLC is a lethal cocktail. His “success” and “fame” and the perks that come with it, make him a magnet for any OW. OW2 does not want to loose any of that. So, she may give a fight to have him keep all his status and help him not give me any money. But, anyway, that is their problem. Think they will end up having some lovely fights and all will come crumbling down.

AnneJ, I think this kind of fame and validation could make it harder for you H to get out of the tunnel (it may alter time frames). However, NOTHING lasts forever. And if you look at the lives of many successful/celebrity situations, fame and fortune often brings lonliness and sadness in the long run (even for someone not in a crisis). People find themselves surrounded by sycophants and never know whether people are around them for themselves, for their money, for their status. Many people lose themselves and their sense of who they are, and find that fame and fortune feeds the ego, but leaves the "soul" (for want of a better word) bereft. Not only that but fame is a fickle friends, for some people it lasts, for most it ends and often when it is least expected and that can bring on a whole different set of concerns. So, I do think that it complicates matters for you because he is getting a lot of external messages saying that what he is doing is just fine but I do not think this validation is the same as having internal peace and contentment. Furthermore, if this IS the source of his happiness and he never wants to come back then you have had the opportunity to see what sort of superficial and/or damaged person he truly is and to be glad that you do not need to cater for that for the rest of your life.

Yo

[HeartsBlessing]

Going back a few posts, I think HB (great to have you back!! Love ya!!!!!!) may have been referring to my comment about becoming the opposite. In my witch, part of my W's falling into shadow involved changing political parties and views, turning her back on our faith and de-prioritizing parenting.  SHE became the opposite of who she was and my comment was simply stating that I would not do those things even if it meant that we D.  I would. Ever stop being true to myself.

What HB explained was similar to what MWD calls the 180, and I HAVE done that.  In fact, I think that's why my W is so comfortable with me now.  I hope it pays off in the future, but I know it's mainly for me and it really has helped.

Apologies to both OP and HB for any miscommunication.

Thundarr,

While you have it correct on the post of yours I was referring to, some of the 180's that are done(for example, I became "weak" for a time to meet his need to be needed, but that changed back later, as this particular need in him changed to something else, and this was a temporary 180, but not something that became permanent) by the LBS are used as coping mechanisms to help them deal with the opposite behavior of the MLC'er; as they really DO, for a time, become the opposite of what they were before; creating a stranger within the person you once knew.

This opposite negative behavior within the MLC'er does NOT last forever; in many ways, many aspects, once the crisis does some deeper work within them, the MLC'er will begin the process of trying to return to the person you once knew; but not completely, as the crisis WILL change them if they allow the process to do its work on them.

Between that and the changes that SHOULD occur within the LBS during this time; a new person will emerge from the metamorphosis that has taken place during this trial; with very little, IF any still exists, of the old remaining within them.

I've seen LBS' that walked away because they didn't like the result that emerged...and I suspected  this was because the LBS did NOT do their part in whole as they were supposed to do.

I've also seen LBS' who changed JUST to get their MLC spouse back; but when the facade was dropped; the MLC'er was the one who walked away.

The MLC'er, though deep in crisis is NOT dumb, stupid or that easily fooled.  Something deep within them KNOWS change must occur; even though they are frightened and fighting this tooth and nail; evident of the running they behaviors they are engaged in.

If one or both refuses to succumb to change, more bouts of crisis are in the future.

One cannot stick their head in the sand and do nothing; in the hopes this will just go away; it must be navigated thoroughly; the only way out is THROUGH; there are NO shortcuts to be had.

Change that triggers growth and maturity MUST be PERMANENT, and not effected just to draw the MLC'er back....I do NOT advocate changing just to get them back, and then return to the "old".  This will NOT work!   Any positive change needs to be permanent within you.

The CRISIS DEMANDS GROWTH, CHANGE, AND BECOMING within BOTH people; not just the MLC'er.

As long as issues remain within the person in crisis; change and flux continues within their psyche; I can tell you this from having seen this first hand.   It is possible to make some decisions, resolving some issues in a short term, setting others aside for the longer term; depending on the severity of the crisis.

In short form; as they face, resolve and heal their various issues; they will no longer use the wrong kinds of defense mechanisms they once used to cope with their life and marriage as a whole.

Some change comes about within them because of the work they do within themselves during their journey.  MOST of the change, however, comes through the influence of the LBS whose journey is linked to the MLC'er's.

If you are honestly facing your own issues; resolving and healing these within yourself, making changes within, as this continues to change YOU,  you should trigger further positive change within them; causing them to grow in ways they never had before.

And THAT is after they fight what's unfamiliar to them; it takes time for them to notice the change; more time for their responsive change to occur....no one likes change; but if you want a better marriage out of this; you'd best prepare and don your armor; you won't get it without a fight.

It takes the change within one to trigger change in the other.  As you deal with your own damage, this actually causes you to incorporate opposite changes within yourself..what was wrong before becomes right; and the balance within yourself gets achieved; causing positive growth within yourself.

This all leads to the "becoming" I have written about many times..and this is a spiritual aspect of the crisis.  When one person changes something in the relationship it really does affect both people; and there is always a chance that one or even both people will decide to walk away before it finishes in whatever way it's supposed to go.

Regardless, it would behoove each and every one of you to examine yourself closely; and begin the journey within yourselves; getting the focus OFF the MLC'er and truly onto yourselves as individuals.

During the journey to wholeness and healing; you really DO experience the true opposite of yourself; furthermore, seeing the damage within YOURSELF due to the issues contained within YOU that fed the issues within the MLC'er during the marriage that is now dead and gone.

As I said before, I did a complete overhaul of myself; once I knew the areas within me that needed changing for good.

As I changed, he changed and moved forward, as our journeys were indeed linked together

There was always the possibility that he could have walked away at any time; but I was indeed prepared for this ahead of time; knowing that I would be just fine, regardless of whether he stayed, or whether he left.

His journey honestly did become about ME...and my marriage became a BONUS, rather than a means to an end.

You could say I endured this journey twice in various aspects; as I survived his MLC; PLUS my Transition; and I saw other aspects within my Transition that I didn't see during his MLC.
I navigated mine completely and totally; and this took time; but it changed me for all time; and I got EVERY issue and aspect of each issue within me.
It was the ONLY way I was able to emerge completely whole and healed; with NOTHING left over or set aside.    I came out only to find my husband was still NOT finished; but that's another story.

If I had not taken the journey in whole; I would have NOT become the person I am now; neither would I have been given all I was given to write, etc.

From the place I stand now, there were many things I could not see when I walked in the shoes, and on the path you are walking now; but I see the whole picture, and why I was called upon to do all that I did; endure all that I endured, and I even see why he took the detours he took...without these additional events; I would not have had the understanding I attained from having that experience.

Get the focus OFF your MLC spouse; get it on YOU; if your marriage survives this crisis; that's great, if not, you should be fine with this, as well.

When you were placed on the road that was NOT of your own making, it became about YOU; just like the crisis is all about your MLC spouse.

Time is what you have been given; choices have been placed before you; use both wisely; as there are NO time limits on how long this will take; and you have a great deal of changing, growing and becoming to do.

So, once you figure out what is happening; and gain some understanding; along with a few answers to your questions; which is enough to increase your understanding for now....GET ON YOUR JOURNEY; and don't look back in that aspect.

Life as you once knew it is GONE; and this will NOT return, not now, not ever.

Don't waste the gift you've been given; and this is a TRUE opportunity to learn who YOU are; as YOU are the only one who can change yourself. 

[crazyforhim]

HB...I think you just answered a question I had posted a while back about my H's MLC.

Maybe you could actually answer the question...LOL!

Brief History:  H first left in 2005 (I actually didn't think it was a crisis back then...just him leaving cause he didn't love me anymore) but as I look back now it is all making sense to me. Got together with an employee of ours (10 years younger)
and moved in with her...spent tons of money all the symptoms were there but I never would have thought it was MLC back then as he was only 32. I read alot of books about how to fix your marriage and made some changes within myself.
H and I reconciled in 2006 and then moved back in together a few months later. Had our 2nd child...my mom passed away and 6 months later H's dad passed away we almost lost our house and then H left again in 2009. OW #2 is again an employee (10 years younger) and the similarities continue.

So I guess my question is.....was H in MLC previously and then what happens in between (we had 3 years of being back together)

My guess is we didn't do the necessary work needed to hold on to the marriage and get through all the bad times but I was really looking for another perspective....

Any guidance you have would be muchly appreciated

Affaircare, sorry for the hijack!!!!

[Mamma Bear]

   Crazy I am not HB (God knows) but I think it's : He's in Replay still got interuptted and went back to it. Looking for happiness in external places. Or should I say looking for avoidance and escape in external activities.

[HeartsBlessing]

Maybe you could actually answer the question...LOL!

Brief History:  H first left in 2005 (I actually didn't think it was a crisis back then...just him leaving cause he didn't love me anymore) but as I look back now it is all making sense to me. Got together with an employee of ours (10 years younger)
and moved in with her...spent tons of money all the symptoms were there but I never would have thought it was MLC back then as he was only 32. I read alot of books about how to fix your marriage and made some changes within myself.
H and I reconciled in 2006 and then moved back in together a few months later. Had our 2nd child...my mom passed away and 6 months later H's dad passed away we almost lost our house and then H left again in 2009. OW #2 is again an employee (10 years younger) and the similarities continue.

So I guess my question is.....was H in MLC previously and then what happens in between (we had 3 years of being back together)

My guess is we didn't do the necessary work needed to hold on to the marriage and get through all the bad times but I was really looking for another perspective....

MammaBear is totally right in one aspect when she says this:

He's in Replay still got interuptted and went back to it.

 

 Since neither one of you made the necessary changes; AND your husband didn't address the issue/character fault within himself that drove his affair; his emotional crisis was put on hold for a time; but returned, and so, he picked right back up where he left off.

Looks like his dad's death tossed him right back into his emotional crisis that started just before 2005.  He was young at 32; usually MLT/MLC hits between the ages of 35 and 55; sometimes a little earlier; sometimes later; depending on the person going through.

But, an emotional crisis can hit at any time; and there are still issues that need to be resolved, and if these aren't resolved; they will return at Mid Life.

Each person is different; just like Menopause and Andropause hits differently for females and males; what comes for one, doesn't come for the other; and what one will do, another won't....these events are as individual as the individual going through.


When my husband was 33, he and I experienced something similar three years before his MLC..his mother died in 1996, throwing him into an emotional crisis.  During that time there was no opportunity to get into an affair; but I got all of the treatment associated with MLC.....he loved me but was not in love with me, he treated me like I had the plague, there were times he couldn't get close enough to me, other times, he pushed me away and hard.

This went on for six months; and when we came out of this; NEITHER one of us had learned anything; and so three years later a month after he turned 37.....VOILA!  We got hit and hard; only this time, he had an accident that resulted in a fatality...it wasn't his fault; but that didn't matter...it put him into a total nervous breakdown that led to his MLC.

I knew next to nothing for well over 2 years, and the bomb that hit me was discovering he was into porn, which led to also discovering his affair...he was deep within Replay when both of these discoveries took place.

For what it's worth, the bomb drop usually comes once the MLC'er is deep within Replay...they either get caught doing something they shouldn't,  cannot keep up appearances any more,(the mask they wear begins to slip down), shame and guilt eats them alive, or their ever increasing disrespect for the LBS drives their desire to make them hurt like THEY are hurting; or the pain within them reaches a point they feel like they must get away or die trying.


From what I also understand the MLC'er's inability to make decisions also can trigger them to drop the bomb in the hopes the LBS will be angry enough to throw them out, making this kind of a decision FOR the MLC'er; but this is a double edged sword in that if the LBS gives over to this; they are the ones who take responsibility for the MLC'er's leaving, rather than leaving that decision on the MLC'er's shoulders; therefore they ALSO bear the whole of the blame in that aspect.

It can also increase the possibility the MLC'er won't return IF the LBS is the one who throws them out initially after bomb drop.(Read the above sentence again and thoroughly; I want NO misunderstandings to come out of this)

There again, some will come crawling back; some, because of pride, arrogance, and the inability to face themselves will never return.   You never know what will happen when you make a life changing decision for the MLC'er by throwing them out.

Yet, even if they leave on their own; it is STILL possible they might not return for various reasons; NONE of which would be the LBS' fault....remember what people do has everything to do with them, and nothing to do with the person it's done to.



Heck, I nearly did it myself; but I had to be talked off the ledge in a hurry; if I had thrown mine out, he would NOT have returned at all.
I knew him well.

Yet, I found in the longer run that it was better to deal with him in the way I did....his space was gotten with his job; and he saw more clearly first hand, the changes I was making within myself....and I wanted to be married IF that were possible; but was brought to the understanding that if that wasn't to be because he didn't want it; my journey STILL had to be taken.

Ok, I've jumped off topic here...and the hijacks grow taller, LOL!!

I hope that answers your question Crazy for Him.

[Anjae]

SD, My husband not noticing what sort of trap, and what kind of people he was becoming surround with, were things I found very strange and that told me something was wrong with him. Both of us, since we meet (and before, on our own), have always had status on the world we moved him. As couple, and after all the joint projects we created, that status grew. He knew all the pitfalls and always stayed away from all the more fuzzy side of it, quite keep to each other, selected few long time friends and family. However, my husband started to move from our artistic/cultural/intellectual world towards a more clubbing/bar scene/discothèque world. Of the people that are, now, around him, 95% never knew us as a couple (part of them even only turned up after OW1), 4% knew us and know his name, but are unware of the all situation between us. They knew us but they were not close friends, just people who could recognise our name, the remaining 1% are some friends (but not the real close type) that new both of us, know we have separated but also do not know the details of current circunstances. He is surround, just like you said, for sycophants. And, since he left/after BD, I’ve always told him two things: 1) OW1, or any other one that comes along while you stay in that world is only interested in what she can get for herself, she is not interested, nor loves you. if the fame and money are gone, so she will be; 2) You’ve lost your soul. There’s a void in you. It will not be filled with that lifestyle.

An old friend (that knew me since before I started to date husband and husband since he started to date me), that has been married, lost track of us and, at the beginning of this years, found us through FB, told me “he is very lonely and depressed”. I said “well, he has OW2, all that bunch of admires and never wanted to do a thing towards the depression”. She said “sometimes, when people are in that state they are not capable of helping themselves and everyone gets advantage of them”, my reply “I know but there is nothing I can do. He has to find it for himself and hit the bottom”. She agree but said what you’re saying, he is going to be even more lonely when the fame fades. My family is of the same opinion. The few people that truly love and care for him know that he runs the risk on ending up without nothing, maybe even, when it happens, trying to kill himself. The fame/success is a risk for almost anyone, for an MCler, all the worst.

After I write my last post on this thread last night I though about Amy Winehouse. She had it all, didn’t she? Fame, money, a family that loved her, millions of adoring fans and, yet, she was utterly unhappy. Rehab did not help and, well, now she is dead.