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Author Topic: MLC Monster MLC'ers are not the enemy

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MLC Monster Re: MLC'ers are not the enemy
#90: November 10, 2011, 06:09:34 AM
Very nice post and 100% accurate, Honour.

Nice job!
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Thundarr

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Re: MLC'ers are not the enemy
#91: November 10, 2011, 06:10:50 AM
And yet another thumbs up, way, way up to your post Honour.  Excellent.

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"I have been studying the traits and dispositions of the "lower animals" (so called) and contrasting them with the traits and dispositions of man. I find the result humiliating to me."
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Re: MLC'ers are not the enemy
#92: November 10, 2011, 06:37:40 AM
Quote
With statements like FOR THEM what you were doing to them hurt them deeply until eventually they hit an inner crisis point. FOR THEM it was bad enough to consider doing what they know is wrong and what makes them internally ILL the original post could be interpreted as shaming and blaming the LBS. It isn't a gentle post leading "flawed ones"  (us) to a better place. It comes across as finger pointing and a telling off.

I appreciate your point of view, however, pointing out that FOR THEM it feels (hopeless, like drowning, like suffocating, like you never listened,blah, blah, blah) doesn't mean it is necessarily true.... just that DEFENDING YOURSELF is pointless. MLC perception is fatally skewed, sometimes on purpose so they can leave without guilt, but it is still their perception and MLCers run on FEELINGS. They are essentially flinging poo.

There's really nothing wrong with discovering where you could IMPROVE as a spouse, whether for your current one or for a new one. My husband still projects a lot, when he is ranting.... it gets projected onto me, and many of the things he is accusing me of isn't true and was NEVER true... it might be true about his Mom or Dad or whoever, but it's TRUE about somebody!! He works it out slowly.... knows it isn't about me.... I let it roll off my back.

I find it very hard to believe that anyone on here had a perfect marriage, was a better than average spouse with no controlling ways, and their spouse has NO grounds for complaint. I also believe the marriage issues are separate from the MLC, but contributed to the perfect storm. How many of us now realize how flawed our partners really were? Perhaps THEY were controlling, opinionated, inconsiderate.... People are an amalgam of many isms... some good, some not so wonderful. When they are having a MLC, all we see is their WORST character defects on steroids.

If YOU were the one in crisis, I wonder what YOU would look like with only your FLAWS OF CHARACTER ramped up and taking over your behavior... what would people think of you?
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Lao Tsu

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Re: MLC'ers are not the enemy
#93: November 10, 2011, 06:52:38 AM
LG-

I know that when I was going through PPD..EVERYONE thought I was nuts! I was the complete
opposit of who I really was...I thought it was MY life and ALL H's fault..

I told him I needed to find out WHO I was...and that I would be back in 2 or 3 months...to just give me some time... :o

For me, If my mom hadnt stayed on my butt to get help...I think I would have dragged it out for years and years and distroyed my family...I am still surprised my H took me back after what I did.

WE all are not perfect....no one is. This time Honey DID have valid reasons to be upset and hurt. but we still had a pretty good M even though I was "addicted" to prescription drugs..
He was clearly going through MLC for about 3 years before BD...My problems made it even harder for him to cope. AND it also justified his reasons for NY-OW2. But we all know it would have happened anyway IF I had been sleeping with him.



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H deceased 11/09/2015
D17
Married 16 yrs Together 25 yrs
BD 09/10
living with OW 12/10
OW moved out 03/11
H moved home 06/11
Affair ended 05/12 again and again and again
H Blocked xOW from contacting Him 10/12
Ended ALL contact with xOW Dec 26th 2012 (So I thought!) I filed for D June 10th 2013
Moved out.

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Re: MLC'ers are not the enemy
#94: November 10, 2011, 07:01:30 AM
LG- I think that you can let it roll off your back is awesome cause I can't.
That is where the problem lies....they blame and accuse and I really take it personally. I sit and think "did I really do that, and then question myself". And then I worry that if he spews all that and blames me outwardly to EVERYONE else (family, our mutual friends) then maybe they will believe HIM and I look like the bad guy (and I really hate that). So it makes you totally feel like you are the one to blame when we are not. Very hard to get past but I am working on that one diligently. That's where working on "me" comes in and the issue of worrying what "everyone" thinks would be something I have to work on for myself. It's like an aha moment and you go "i need to work on that one"
And it always a work in progress!
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Re: MLC'ers are not the enemy
#95: November 10, 2011, 07:17:18 AM
Honour, just wanted to join the accolades. You summed it up brilliantly.
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Nina Simone

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Re: MLC'ers are not the enemy
#96: November 10, 2011, 07:32:16 AM
I think that (MLC'er is not the enemy) depends on the situation. My H never blamed me for anything I got the ILYBNILY but that was the first day. Then after that yes he was monster but not bc I was or did anything I knew he was monster bc he was doing things that were wrong and he was lashing out at me. Now understand I'm not saying that there wasn't and isn't things that need to b worked on but my H after a few months has always said it was his job he hates his job so much and he said he knew the exact moment when he felt himself change. 2 years ago he had a boss who was horrible who came into his store and yelled and belittled him in front of everybody. Now my H was always the Goldenboy of that company and never did any wrong, the company was bought out 3 years ago and it was a totally different company who could care less about their employees the other company did care about them and showed them how much. so needless to say my H went from being top dog to now having a boss who hated him Literally hated him. He was this short ugly guy that couldn't stand my H bc the boss b4 told this new boss that my H was great just puffed him up to the point that the new boss was just out to get him and let me tell u he did. My H just told me a couple of weeks ago that he remembers that day and when he started feeling different inside and changing, he hated everything from that point on and when I think and look back I do remember and I do remember around that time when he started just withdrawing from the family completely.
But our marriage was still really good besides the fact that my H was at work a lot. But I was use to that bc he always worked a lot, bc he enjoyed it but he enjoyed his kids and me also. I know that the working to much was an issue for the last 2 years bc he was putting in 80 hours a week at a job he hated and a boss who hated him that no matter what he did it wasn't good enough. That rocked his world.
That put a strain on the marriage but I never said anything to him about his hours at all not once bc I knew that was his job and it had to b done. It was something that would need to b changed and that is the biggest lesson my H has learned he said that his job wasn't worth losing everything and he has realized what is important. He now comes home by 5 or 6 everyday instead of leaving at 6 am and coming home at 9pm or later. And the horrible bosses he had 1 was demoted and 2 were fired. He now has a boss who is really nice and is not out to get him at all. He still doesnt love his job like he use to at all but he doesn't hate it like he did for the last 2 years.
So what I am saying is it's not always about the spouse. My H told me and his mom many times that it was him and his job that he neglected us and shoved us away for his job, that his marriage was great, it wasn't me or the kids. This was about him and his issues. He even said this while in Replay. We never really fought at all we might disagree on something but that was what it was we disagreed and we spent all our time together when he wasnt at work. The bedroom was great no problems there at all for 23 years was at least a couple times a week, there wasn't any issues in that department either. We talked all the time and when he was at work he called me all the time and I went and had lunch with him a couple times a week also. We really had a great marriage, not perfect nobody's is but it was great. That is something that is so hard for him to deal with now, bc he feels that I will never b able to forgive him and b back to that.
Well I don't want to b back to that completely I have grown from this experience also I believe that is what this is about too, not just about them it is about us. I am different and I want different things I won't put up with the 80 hours a week anymore or never going to the kids events I will not b a single parent anymore he will get involved or it won't work. He had to learn a lot through this and for him it did he learned that his family was more important than his job. He has been going to all my d15 games which he hasn't been to in I can't even tell u how many years it's been.
My H and I have both changed and It is still an adjustment and he has only been home for about a month and we have been talking for a couple months and he has opened up about everything. We are still in the rough stage bc he is barely been home and he is still in  OW withdraw but b4 he went there the talks we had told me a lot. I have learned so much from this and I am happy I have and the things I have learned and the things I have changed about me I wouldn't change it for anything. I am grateful for the changes that have been made there is so much that wouldn't of happened if it wasn't for this and I know that my marriage will b amazing it's worth the struggles to get there that's for sure.
I'm sure a lot of u will disagree but I know my marriage b4 and I know my H and the things we have talked about made sense. I am not saying that there wasn;t things I needed to change bc there was but that was for me not my H. My H had it made before this and he knows it now and he has said it even in Replay that most men and people would do anything to have a marriage like we had.
Well I know now that it will b even better and I can't wait for those day which are right around the corner.
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Re: MLC'ers are not the enemy
#97: November 12, 2011, 01:19:43 AM
This is a further explanation of what is meant by becoming the opposite during the changes the spouse of the MLC'er would need to make.

Agree, disagree, whatever you wish; but understand this; I have not written, and do NOT write "misinformation".

You may not understand everything I write when it's written; but I understand that it depends on where one usually is within this trial...and some of you are not very far at all within this, or you would understand why this is necessary during your journey.
Even I didn't understand this concept to begin with; and it wasn't until I lived through that particular aspect that I came to understand it.

I wrote articles on everything I did during my husband's crisis in what I thought was plain english; easily understood; and I watched these same techniques work for others once they were understood by the person who was using them.

It is all too easy to say you're misinformed when you don't understand; or lack comprehension of  something you read, because you've not reached that point, just yet.

In way of explanation, I will start at the beginning; and work my way through; in many ways I may add a little too much information; but too much is better than not enough...and this may help you understand WHY this aspect was necessary.

And here we go:

If your marriage/relationship was all it was supposed to be have been, the crisis would NOT have happened at all, or if it had, it would have remained a simple transition; and there would not be all of the physical and emotional running away MLC'ers do on a regular basis.

The only way of getting out of the transition/crisis is by learning the lessons of life thoroughly; and doing away with the dysfunctional ways of relating that are usually developed within childhood, and some issues are suffered in early adulthood; generally with both MLC'er and LBS usually carrying baggage filled with issues they never dealt with until the crisis comes about.

I include myself in this baggage carrying number; I was once there before I learned better ways of relating to people; not just my MLC spouse.

In other words, we would have had to have grown up in clear emotional aspects; catching up with our bodies long before the age of transition/crisis had come upon ourselves.  Our bodies grow to adulthood, but many people lag behind in emotional growth due to childhood trauma that causes pieces to break off to be stored within our psyche; these are known as the issues we carry into adulthood.   Since children don't have the emotional capacity, nor the mental capability to resolve trauma when it happens; it's actually put on hold for a number of years; until our mental capabilities are matured to a point we can handle the issues as they come forth.

We can be emotionally regressed; but mentally mature at the same time.   It had come to me more than once that it's a sort of "compartmentalization" we accomplish emotionally when the issues are stored away; and we don't remember them until the time comes that "triggers" these into our memories.

Even when adult people run away from their issues; they are still capable of dealing with the ongoing cry of their issues, once they stop running.  But if a child, even one in puberty, were faced with the same emotional and mental intensity that comes at midlife, their minds would cross over into insanity; and they would be rendered unable to function.  So, these " broken pieces" are stored away for a later time.

This would explain the various chemical changes we know happens in the brain at midlife, and it's not ALL hormonal; the change during the emotional crisis is chemically based; resulting in an altered state of mind we see come out within the MLC spouse.  Within their minds, they are "reliving" times in their lives related to their issues that must be resolved in order to move forward to the next issue they will face; until each issue, plus the aspects of each are faced in entirety.

Since emotional maturation that comes with the settling of the issues within each person hadn't happened, or was stunted because of heavy trauma at one point or several points either in childhood, or young adulthood, it would not have mattered if you'd been the perfect spouse, or even if THEY had seemed to be the perfect spouse; the crisis still would have happened; as the issues that weren't dealt with or evaded for so long, would still come up to be seen and dealt with.

Some or most of you may still not get the similarities of the journey the MLC'er and the LBS; the journey happens at different times for both; but it's essentially the SAME journey both should take to wholeness and healing.

The idea of the LBS becoming the opposite is learning to experience the opposite of what you had been during the marriage.  Once you saw clearly the areas within yourself that needed change, you learned to become the opposite in those areas.   But, very similar to the MLC'er this leads the LBS into beginning to examine the total opposite of yourself; and I remembered seeing the BAD of myself, as well as the GOOD within myself.

I saw where I was deeply flawed; I saw the issues within myself; and thank God, I was given the tools to begin to fix myself; and again, quite a bit of this journey concerned becoming the opposite of the person I had once been.
I also saw where I had changed over the time of our marriage from the person my husband fell in love with into someone he had once THOUGHT he wanted; but when a controller and manipulator is successful in "remaking" their spouse into more like themselves; the attraction that brought the couple together initially disappears until it's brought back; like JA had spoken of having returned to the person her husband had fallen in love with long ago.
I, too, had to resurrect that young girl my husband had once been attracted to; not with the qualities I had once had; but with the fun loving and happy qualities that had drawn him to me in the first place.

Over time and years, we really DO get "lost" in our spouse's agendas; often losing our very identities in that process;  our individuality; the people we were before we became simply wives, mothers, caretakers; well you get the idea. 

This journey is also a time of regaining what WE lost as we were trying to do what we could to please our spouses, but if you're honest when you examine the the characteristics of your spouse before the crisis, you find that no matter what you did, it was never enough....and it's strange, you'll also find that what they did, in many ways, was really not enough for you, either...as emotional needs weren't met in the way they should have been on BOTH sides of the marriage.

That was something else on my journey of discovery I found; I had NO idea that people were expected to meet emotional needs in each other when married.   My husband had some vague idea of it; but it wasn't until I found a list and showed it to him that he could articulate what needs he needed met. We each figured out the needs we needed to meet in the other; and you know, I knew, I wasn't getting ANY need met, most especially during the crisis....and his were changing so often, it took some time before he settled on at least 5 that I could meet consistently; this came later once his affair was done, the grieving process done; and he was ready to turn toward me again.

My continuing journey into exploring the opposites brought me to the understanding that I was very capable of doing the same things my husband had done; but it also showed me I had the choice of turning away from these aspects; just as he'd had the SAME choices, but chose to fall to his baser instincts; he had a character fault within him, based on his issues; just as most MLC'ers who fall also contain these same character faults within themselves.  This helps trigger a fall to temptation; and rather than stand and fight to come through and back away from temptation; they choose to fall, and in that process, run away from not only their spouses and families, but from God and themselves as well.

I have NEVER advised becoming the opposites as 'dropping your values, morals, etc.' and I have NEVER advised growth and change just to get your MLC spouse back;  that was NEVER the intention.
Change is for YOU, not for anyone else; not even your MLC spouse.

To do a complete overhaul in growth and becoming ensures you get every last change that needs to be made within; and this requires total complete self honesty within yourself......

I can truthfully say that I made that complete overhaul; it was the only way I could make sure I made every change I needed to make within.

People who hadn't walked far enough within the journey to understand what experiencing the opposite of what you had been was all about will need to walk further to understand the article I've written.

I never sacrificed ANY of my morals and values during my time of growth and change; part of my own growing and changing really was experiencing my own opposite side of the coin, not to mention becoming the opposite of what I once was in the way of personality.

I would be the first to admit that I was once co dependent, emotionally immature, a pursuer, a controller, a manipulator, to some extent passive aggressive, a true conflict avoider.   I  also suffered from abandonment issues, and from self sabotage.  I had endured a harsh childhood full of physical, and emotional abuse that developed these undesirable qualities within me.

The pattern of emotional abuse continued when I married a man who was just like my dad in personality; my issues complemented and fed his issues; which in turn,  contributed to the eventual breakdown of our marriage during his MLC.  My husband was drawn to me in the beginning because I "fed" his issues, just as he "fed" mine for all those years before the crisis.

People are generally drawn to what is familiar to them in the way of behaviors, etc; and unknowingly continue various patterns of dysfunctional behavior.  They don't know any better; they just go with what they do know.

This perception should undergo a change at Midlife; especially when the crisis rears its ugly head.

My husband's issues were similar to mine; and the fuel that fed his MLC; having nothing to do with me, personally;  but since he and I had never learned how to deal with each other as emotionally mature adults; our marriage was also dysfunctional; and there were behavioral patterns within us both that led not only to his MLC; but later to my Transition.

My point again is BOTH of us had serious issues that contributed to the breakdown of our marriage; although my husband was the one that actually brought about this same breakdown with his actions; and he initially refused to work on the marriage.

 I got the same kind of treatment as all you have gotten; the only difference was that he got his space from his job, rather than moving out.  But, he might as well have gone, because there were many weekends I didn't see him until late Saturday night.

Until the fog within his head began to clear, there was NO reaching him at all; and I can tell you from experience, the harder I pushed, the harder he ran.  It was when I started acting the opposite of what I would normally have done(for examples, no pursuit where I would have pursued before, speaking calmly when I normally would have been yelling and screaming, staying quiet, when I would normally have been being too transparent and that list goes on), I saw him start drifting back out of curiosity.  As long as I continued to act out in the way he was FAMILIAR with, this fed his justifications for his bad behavior/actions toward me; but when I did the opposite; I effectively took away the fuel for his behavior toward me.

For what it's worth; these opposites I listed are STILL in effect within me; and he responds to them very well.  I did NOT change just to get him back; I changed for ME.

As I became, I became someone he really wanted to be around; I did become an honestly happy person; and happy people are a 'draw' or a "magnet".  Anger and misery are a repellant, and I learned this quickly. 
There did come a time later for accountability; but again, as long as his mind was out to lunch and deeply fogged and confused; negative emotion would have driven him away.   

He never did curse me, nor call me names; something in him prevented him from going that far with me; and I sincerely believe that this was one thing he remembered about me; I did NOT tolerate being cursed or called names; this was one disrespectful behavior I didn't have to deal with in him.

But his confusion was very real; and I did see many times he did not know who I was; as he was living within a time before I came into existence.  I also saw moments of clarity in his ramblings; but these didn't come up often; and when they did; he would say he didn't understand what he was doing, or why he was doing what he was doing.   These were the times I saw him poke his head out of the tunnel long enough to make sure I was still there; he knew me during those times.

The changes in me as he saw them, would bring more and more moments of clarity, as he did not like what he was seeing; he perceived that I was leaving him behind; and he didn't like that; so the controller would come forth, and attempt to squeeze me back into the box he thought he had left me in.

It didn't work, but that didn't keep him from trying.  :)

NO, I did NOT date during his crisis; that would have been the first step toward adultery within my own mind; not to mention my husband would NOT have accepted something like that, never mind what he had done. 

On the other hand, I could NOT have lived with myself if I had allowed myself to fall that far down; nothing would have justified me dating another when I wasn't divorced from my husband.

The changes I made within myself were instrumental in assisting him in the changes he needed to make within himself; it took me changing to trigger his changes, growth and becoming.  Change must start within one to make changes happen within another; and this is so true when it comes to the MLC spouse.

He said later on what happened within him had nothing to do with me and everything to do with him.  Yet, he also said that it was the changes I made that drew him back toward me; even though he'd tried to get me to return to the person I had once been because the "old" was more familiar to him than the new.

Yet, in being one step ahead of him, I already knew that to allow the "old" patterns to return was asking for trouble and a repeat of what we'd already been through; and I knew enough to hold firmly to the changes I had made; this in turn did cause and influence him to change and to finally grow up as he was meant to do.

I really like the person I became because of his crisis; I am more sure of myself than ever before; and I'm knowledgeable of the "red flags" of bad behavior; plus I'm comfortable enough to call someone out on bad behavior; knowing I really don't have to put up with crap from people anymore.

I have gained more than I ever thought I lost; in retrospect, I lost nothing; but the added weight of a great deal of luggage that I no longer carry; issues that are long gone, healed and whole; and I have a successful marriage with a man who learned all I learned; and in that process, we both became emotionally mature adults for the first time.  :)

The journey I took was a successful one; and it encompassed all aspects of myself, my husband, my marriage; and my life.

I am a successful person; because I completed this journey, and made it out the other side as an individual; and my marriage was simply a bonus, not a means to an end.

I had once thought in the beginning to save my marriage; and ended up saving myself first before I could do anything further within the other aspects of my life; which included my marriage.

My husband is NOT the same person he was before; he's a much better man than he was before the crisis; and I would NOT trade the time spent for any amount of money in the world; as my journey was worth what came in the end.

One final thought; when the bomb was dropped this changed EVERYTHING in our lives; and once I had learned to move forward in order to walk the journey; it changed things even further.    Change had already come, trust had already been broken in pieces, our lives had been shattered; and yes, my husband did these things to himself, me and our marriage.

I initially fought what I kept being told needed to happen in the way of growth and change; but once the shattering happened; there was no going back; only forward.

I do realize this is a big time hijack, but you know what? I don't care about that; I did NOT see my husband as the enemy within his crisis; what I saw was a man who was going through an emotional crisis complicated by a number of issues/aspects that he was dealing with....but even that didn't stop me from walking my journey; protecting myself when necessary, and completing my growth; once forced on the path; it all became necessary for me to finish what was started with his crisis.

I had no control over what he did/had done, but I did learn that I could control me; and everything that surrounded ME; and if he couldn't have caught up with me, and become the man that I did, indeed, see him become as a result of his crisis; I would have let him go entirely.

I'd already handed him an open door he wouldn't take; opened a cage door, he wouldn't step through...the only thing left was change for him to grow into and finish. :)

 I was already prepared for the possibility that he could walk away at any time; having already learned to have the grace and the love, to let him go completely within the marital aspect; if he had not wanted me considering what I had become within myself due to the growth I had already accomplished within.

But, he didn't walk, I didn't walk, and we're still together; his and my choice were to stay together; and build a better relationship than we had before.

My two cents for what it's worth; and the knowledge of a light at the end of the tunnel that is not a runaway train.  :)





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Our marriage survived His MLC, with the help of the Lord.
I have learned that true strength is built through the trials we endure.
There is hope as long as you love your MLC spouse, and, are willing to learn the  life's lessons that are set before you as a result of this crisis.

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Re: MLC'ers are not the enemy
#98: November 12, 2011, 02:05:01 AM
Thank you HB!! I have a question which I guess I am not formulating very clearly, but in a situation like mine and many others on the board, where our H'w or W's have moved out and have been living with the alienator for a year or so, where contact is off n on (not frequent enough to be called boomerang) and we have worked firstly on detachment in ourselves, how do we stop ourselves from feeling so detached, so removed from our previous life, that we do not feel, for all intents and purposes "divorced". My H is living monogamously with OW. He and she have my kids every other weekend. I rarely speak to him and even though I am changing for me and working on me, it is not like he sees those changes. Because I don't see him, I don't witness the confused behaviour very frequently and so often I feel like I am already "divorced" in every way but on paper (and he is working to make that a reality asap too).

I have an underlying sense that it is impossible that he does not love me at all anymore. He loved me for long enough and with enough complexity that I can't believe it has just disappeared forever. That is really the only thing that gives me even the slightest hope, and it is a "sense" rather than anything concrete. I know that I am also going through some sort of transition in this process and I cycle a lot. I try to be still when I can.  In terms of dating part of me understands completely why it could be considered adulterous. However it hard to imagine that such a nice man would be offering kindness and friendship to me at this point in my life, when H has been living with OW for nearly a year, if he was not supposed to come into my life for some reason (because I was not looking for romance).  My overriding feeling at this point in the process is confusion about everything. Is this MLC? Did H ever love me? What in him was so damaged that having children so significantly changed his feelings for me? Was he not ready to have children but he was SO conflict avoidant he pretended that he was, to make me happy? Did I change so significantly as a mother that I was not loveable anymore? (there was a change in H's behaviour towards me from the time we started a family). I can go back and see where I definitely had faults (I allowed my life to start to be dictated by him, his career and his "plans" from the time I was in my mid-20s and resented it, sometimes not secretly, despite the fact I could have chosen differently, but I did not want to risk the marriage by insisting that I have something my way - ironic really.)

I did a lot wrong, I was emotionally immature (as was he) in many ways. We met young, so perhaps that was inevitable. Still, he broke the marriage and I still can't make sense of how and why he did it - I remember a conversation in 2008  where HE was stating that we were lucky to have such a strong ability to communicate with each other in our marriage. Within 2 years he left saying that he couldnt talk to me and never had been able to, and then mentioned how we had been best friends...

Blah - sorry I am hijacking big time now, but as I said, my life is confusing at this point. Some would say that H is deep in the replay tunnel (BD 13 mths ago), but sometimes I wonder if he is in a tunnel or if he is just done. I know we all have moments like this.... Sigh..

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Nina Simone

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Re: MLC'ers are not the enemy
#99: November 12, 2011, 03:18:52 AM
S&D,

We ALL question our stand; most especially when the crisis has gone on for a length of time, and the MLC spouse shows no signs of returning; and we wonder within ourselves if they really ARE done with us.

There were times when my husband was deep that his actions looked like he was completely done with our marriage; but if that were so, why did he still return home?

Yet, the clear signs I kept seeing, showed me he was in crisis; complicated by sexual addiction; and I had to just move forward with my life AS IF he were going to leave at any minute.

Like you, I had done a great deal wrong; my husband was controlling and manipulative; but I didn't always see what he was doing; and though I sometimes argued with him; I allowed a great many things to pass when I should have stood up for myself, and I didn't.

On the other hand, what your husband doesn't realize is that once he attains HIS divorce; he will be setting YOU free, while he's ensnared himself with this OW he is living with.   He further doesn't realize your freedom would be complete; even to the point of cutting all contact with him except where it concerns the children, and he doesn't realize that his access to you would then be limited severely; in spite of the fact that he rarely speaks to you.

It's true he doesn't love you anymore; not at this moment; at least on the surface; he's in CRISIS, remember?  They have NO sense of what love really means while within the crisis; and they can't love themselves; so what makes you think they can love anyone else; no matter how they may profess their undying love for their affair partner.

His feelings for you are buried deep within himself; and every time he looks at you; you remind him of his failures. This may be why you don't see or speak to him much.

It's possible that once the children started arriving that it triggered his insecurities about being a father; and this could have pushed him into crisis.

I would NOT say he never loved you; people are where they choose to be at any given time, and I don't think you twisted his arm when the two of you married; there was love there between the two of you, or the marriage would NOT have happened.

Being in transition for you has confused you further; and this is normal; believe it or not; and the changes you make as you know are NOT for him, they are for you; but these are necessary in order for you to apply them either to your renewed marriage or to another relationship IF it should come to that.

I am one that sincerely believes that once a MLC'er is stupid enough to go on and marry their affair; they have closed a door that can never be reopened again.   This viewpoint of mine has been questioned more than once; but remarriage opens another can of worms that cannot be closed; and another person has been brought into the equation whose feelings would have to be considered by the MLC'er not to mention that it would be doubly hard for the LBS to start over with the MLC'er should he/she divorce the affair partner upon seeing their mistake.

This is a hard bed with hard consequences; and a MLC'er who would divorce their spouse to marry another then go to the trouble of divorcing them to return to the LBS; in my book, could not be trusted; divorcing one's partner every time you think you've made a mistake is NOT a solution for an ongoing problem within oneself; it only compounds the current problem, and trust issues would always remain for the LBS that might not resolve within them.


That's my two cents on the remarriage of the MLC'er; the affair is usually a symptom, not the whole of the problem within the MLC'er; and second marriages stand a greater chance of divorcing than first marriages; that's usually because within a second marriage baggage has been increased; not just from childhood/young adulthood, but if the issues that led to the divorce of the first marriage are not resolved; these issues will also come up in MLC as well; increasing the burden upon the MLC'er in the way of issues that must be resolved within themselves.

Anyway, the divorce you feel is an emotional divorce the only thing you don't have just yet, is the piece of paper saying you're divorced; yet, continue to work on yourself; EVEN IF your MLC spouse gets HIS divorce.   You would not be in any shape to start a new relationship with the continuing of growth you still have to accomplish within yourself, and until you healed completely; and understood completely the various "red flags" of unacceptable behavior will throw up; believe me, you're better continuing to live on your own with the children until you've got your own self together in that aspect.

From what I see, he's still deep within the Replay tunnel; he's still involved with OW; and IF he finalizes a divorce; (and my advice is you don't allow that to happen until you make sure you and the children are provided for adequately); that doesn't mean it's "over" not until he goes stupid and marries her.

Understand, this has nothing to do with you, everything to do with him; and his mistakes or disasters are his own; not yours.

You're not the one who decided to walk away
You're not the one who went and got involved with someone else while still married
You're not the one who doesn't sleep well at night; guilt is a harsh bedfellow
You're not the one who twisted his arm when it came time to marry you
You're not the one who's going to lose the best thing you ever had in your life; he will lose more than he thinks he will gain; while you won't lose as much as you think if he persists in moving on with the OW

Detachment protects what love you have left for the MLC spouse, so you don't become destructive; yet, on the other hand, get on with your life AS IF he won't be returning; live your life for YOU; don't worry about him or your lack of feeling at the moment; this is perfectly normal for you to feel this way about him at this time.

You're still processing the past; and detachment will become very important as you reach the necessary point of seeing him as he really is; and what your marriage was really like; this will be a step where you will see the realities of both these aspects; and you'll need this "seeing" to begin the next phase of your changes; as you'll find your marriage was NOT what you thought it was; I see part of this reality in your post; but there's more to come shortly.

I wasn't as detached as I should have been when I reached that point in my journey; and I had a break down of a sort, as I cried and grieved for what should have been, and it wasn't; and the reality of the perceived loss hit me hard.   

I learned later, it wasn't a loss at all; nothing was as it should have been; and it was better that things burned to the ground in the way they did.  Granted, I started over with my husband; but the man I started over with was so much different than the man he had been before the crisis that I might as well have started over with another man; the differences were that clear because the crisis had done its work on him that was necessary to bring about his changes into the man he was meant to become.

He's no longer controlling and manipulating, etc.   He does his best to care for me; but he no longer tries to control or manipulate me; leaving my decisions up to me; and he doesn't argue with me nor try to tell me what to do.   He's more of a "fit" in regards to my needs, and as far as I know, I'm a good "fit" for him, too....he's not complained; and before the crisis, he was a loud complainer about everything especially if it didn't go HIS way.   :)

One last thing, your husband's crisis, again, has nothing to do with you, and everything to do with him; and understand it wouldn't have mattered what had happened this crisis would still have happened.

Each of us has our part in the breakdown of our marriages; but we can only fix what pertains to US; it is up to the MLC'er to fix themselves or not.....no one has any control over what they do but them.

If your husband chooses not to return, this is HIS loss; not yours; you'll come to understand why I say that, if you don't already understand; and  honestly, you can't worry about what choices he decides to make, as you really cannot control anyone's choices/actions, but your own, and your own reactions.

I hope this help, Sweetie. :)

Love and hugs to you,
HB
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Our marriage survived His MLC, with the help of the Lord.
I have learned that true strength is built through the trials we endure.
There is hope as long as you love your MLC spouse, and, are willing to learn the  life's lessons that are set before you as a result of this crisis.

 

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