[Which of these do you believe was the main factor triggering your spouse's MLC?]

Which of these do you believe was the main factor triggering your spouse's MLC?

Stress and/ or burnout

12 (25%)

Medication

1 (2.1%)

Dealing with childhood issues

10 (20.8%)

Hormonal changes

3 (6.3%)

Depression

8 (16.7%)

Neurological changes, unrelated to anything outside

1 (2.1%)

Underlying personality disorder,

7 (14.6%)

Social fears (aging, mortality, children leaving, etc.)

2 (4.2%)

Genetics

0 (0%)

External factors (work, OW, etc.)

1 (2.1%)

None of these (please add a note) Death of his mother

3 (6.3%)

Total Members Voted: 48

Voting closed: August 20, 2016, 03:03:33 PM

[Trustandlove]

Thundarr,

She wasn't a counsellor, not that type of therapist, but one who worked in a quasi-medical field.  It's a branch of a more mainstream type of treatment....  the kind that seems fine on the surface and then you wonder as you get deeper into it.  I researched it later and found that it fit the description of "therapy cult".  I did actually talk to their professional association (and I didn't know she was the alienator at the time, he only admitted taht 2.5 years later) and found that I would have had a case for other reasons, but that it would be long, drawn-out and expensive, and I decided that I had other, better things to do. 

I'd be happy to explain more in a PM if you want. 

[kikki]

A question: how do you define mental health? How do you know when someone is emotionally healthy? And how do you acquire emotional and spiritual health? The MLCer certainly needs it, and given the shock and trauma and the need to cope, the LBS needs it.

honour

Mental Health:
Mental health describes either a level of cognitive or emotional well-being or an absence of a mental disorder. From perspectives of the discipline of positive psychology or holism mental health may include an individual's ability to enjoy life and procure a balance between life activities and efforts to achieve psychological resilience. Mental health is an expression of emotions and signifies a successful adaptation to a range of demands.


Emotional Health:
Emotional health is defined by the degree to which you feel emotionally secure and relaxed in everyday life. An emotionally healthy person has a relaxed body, an open mind and an open heart.

The more emotional health you possess, the more self esteem you have. This means you do not frequently react with knee jerk responses, anxiety or panic to the events that occur in your life.

Instead, you are usually calm and patient with yourself and others. This means you are an emotionally safe person.

Emotionally safe people do not judge or criticize others. This is because they have learned not to judge and criticize themselves.

Emotionally healthy people feel safe and secure with their own emotions and feelings.  They feel their feelings and emotions instead of avoiding them or trying to control them.

To be emotionally healthy you must express your emotions in healthy, assertive ways.


How do you acquire emotional and spiritual health?:
Unlike physical health whereby there are certain, scientific facts which can’t be disputed (i.e. water is vital for life and most of us don’t drink enough of it), emotional and spiritual wellbeing is a different beast and extremely personal. Here are my two cents as to how you can begin…

Get to know yourself - self awareness is truly, truly powerful; the more deeply you know yourself, the greater the impact you can have on your world. This is not to be under-estimated. If you do nothing else, spend your life figuring out who you really and truly are – in all your glory.
Figure out your triggers - understanding and identifying what presses your buttons, gets you stressed and sends you off kilter is useful in the process of learning how to regain your centre.
Find a practice which works for you – be it a moment of quiet contemplation first thing in the morning, last thing at night or in the shower; or a more formal approach to meditation and visualisation.
Set up a support system – you can do this all alone if that works for you but you may find that an emotional and spiritual support system can function as a net should you ever need to be caught.
To become a pioneer of your own life, you have to know whose life you’re living. At the very heart of this is YOU. Who are you? And how do you accept, respect, nurture, honour and protect this?

 

[Thundarr]

Excellent post, Kikki, and opens my eyes that I am NOT emotionally healthy right now, or at least I'm not when gauged by the baseline of when things are ok.  I can't envision being emotionally healthy while being alone and unloved by your soulmate but I guess I'll get there and will understand it when I do, as so many on here have.

Funny thing is on the board in the common area staff always write a saying for the kids to read and learn from.  Today's message is "Happiness is up to ourselves."  I'm not there yet and too mired in negative thoughts as Syn pointed out to me on my thread.  I hope Honour and the rest of us can find our places of peace.

[Mermaid]

Hi,

I'm curious about what you feel the main cause of your spouses' MLC is. I'm sure that many of them have multiple causes, like mine (childhood issues, narcissism, extreme stress), but you may have discovered that one is stronger than others.

For example, my H isn't worried about dealing with his childhood issues, was extremely stressed and depressed but actually if he hadn't developed somewhat a narcissistic personality (which, as we know, is a defense against things that have happened), he would have reacted in a different way to me and to stress. So I'd put underlying personality disorder as the key issue.

The reason I'm putting up this poll is because our perceptions may affect our decision to stand, or not, and certainly how to deal with our MLCer.

Until recently, I'd always believed that H's main problem was stress, and if only he had less, or could deal with it differently, he wouldn't have burnt out, and he'd be happier. That, actually, is H's story to himself and me.

Now I believe he's a covert narcissist, and I'm questioning my stand, while also questioning my own behaviour and trying to change it.

It's not that we can change our spouse, but we can reflect and change ourselves. We should always focus on getting a life, detaching, etc. in any circumstances.

[Anjae]

OK Mermaid, you went ahead and started one more discussion thread, similar to already existing ones. In a few days, as usual with discussion threads, I will be merging it, or putting it into the archives. We have too many discussion threads in the board.

PS - I have merged it with the other thread on MLC that you have started. That way, the whole discussion will be on one place. Please stick to a single thread about the matter. Thank you.

[Mermaid]

Thank you Anjae. I hope it will be useful. I'd added a  link to our archived thread on MLC, rather than putting it all back up. I couldn't actually find a similar thread at the moment. I understand the need to not overcrowd the site with new discussions.

The reason I started a new thread was to have a poll... the only way to do this is to start a new thread. Unfortunately, my explanation for the poll is separated from the poll itself. It's set to run for just two weeks. I hope it doesn't get archived too quickly!!!

[Mitzpah]

Interesting...

I voted for external factors, work, OW - I believe this was the evident 'trigger', however, I believe childhood factors play a role - one year and a half before BD (we had just come back from celebrating or silver wedding anniversary), my h. had a tearful exchange with our children who had held a party at the house in our absence - telling them that they did not know what it was to grow up without a father - his father left the house one day  before his sixteenth birthday and died when h. was 20 (almost 21) - still in the throes of MLC.

Our eldest son was 18 and our youngest (d) was coming up to 16 at BD.

This is what I observe...

[Mermaid]

Hi Mitzpah, old friend.

So do you think that all factors needed to be together for MLC to take place? Not one factor which is more important?

[trusting]

I think the main cause of my H's MLC is underlying childhood/FOO issues.  His family is far more dysfunctional under the surface than I thought when I first started dating him.  However, I do think there has to be something else contributing. His childhood certainly wasn't as "bad" as others' who manage to avoid an MLC and deal with them in an emotionally healthy way. 

His dad was bipolar (diagnosed later in life) and mom suffers from pretty significant depression, so there is definitely a genetic component of chemical imbalances there.   However, even very recently in a conversation we had, he brought up three separate childhood woundings that obviously still plague him and he obviously has not dealt with in an appropriate manner.  I have known about these for many years.  Sad that he still can't cope and is still trying to find ways to compensate for the insecurities.

His brother has not had an MLC (that I am aware of - I have not spoken to him in years) but has never been a very nice person in the years since I have known him.  He behaved quite badly for years and has been married multiple times.  I used to be in awe that my H was so normal when his brother turned out the way he did.  Ha.  Now, his brother actually seems to be settling down and normalizing and my H has flipped.  Sigh.

[Trustandlove]

I voted for depression, but I'm probably one of the ones who does go for the "perfect storm" model; I see that stress and burnout had a role to play, I know that the original alienator/OW was a factor, there were other things as well. 

He has a huge fear of rejection, and once admitted to rejecting me before I rejected him.  He frequently admits to huge guilt.   

My reasoning is of course my own experience; and watching at a distance as my H implodes his life, still blaming me somehow. 

Mine says that he always felt not good enough.  But rather than look at himself he decided to blame me, which is consistent with many things that RCR writes. 

Is it a neurological issue?  Perhaps, but I don't think to the degree that others see; I'm not on the private side so don't see kikki's story, but know something of it.  My situation isn't like Mermaid's.

Mine shows extreme selfishness, but again, not the way that Mermaid describes.   The early years had activity that led some to ask if he was bipolar; that seems to have calmed down somewhat. 

There may be some childhood issues, but nothing like the kinds of trauma that others describe, indeed, he grew up in a loving family, if materially poor. 

As far as I can tell, mine continues to look for external solutions to internal problems, and just can't or perhaps more accurately won't see himself.