[JD]

As I see it:

Marriage vows - Our MLC'ers don't just break but destroy them and we are forced daily to deal with that reality.....so do we break them further by considering  a relationship of whatever variant with someone else? In addition we're all told here to let the WAS file for divorce, to not let them off the hook of their decision and take that task, the obligations and stresses that go with it on ourselves.
Intimacy - there is none with our MLC'er.  They are gone to us, our " marriage is over" and we're told that constantly.
Our lives - we are told to live our lives "as if" they are not ever coming back.
Our needs - are important, and yes we can meet many ourselves and in alternative ways, but for how long do we deny ourselves fulfillment of those needs? Especially considering the fact there may never be any hope of reconciliation with our spouses?
Our beliefs - are a guide for us, and none of us know what God has in store, and his will is thwarted by our and our spouse's free will.

In summation, we're in between a lot of forces here and conflicting ideas.  It's no wonder this is contentious and confusing.

I guess it all boils down to what dishonors oneself.

[Synicca]

I know for me, IF I was to go down that road again...I would have to deal with the guilt and shame, just like HB says. I have been there...two wrongs dont make a right and it doesnt set a good example for the MLCer...what I mean is if we are angry that they cheated they can easily throw that back in our faces too...later on when they realise how messed up they were.

As hard has it is sometimes...I dont actually miss the sexual part, I do however MISS the closeness and I wouldnt get that with a one nighter anyway. I can invite B.O.B. into my bed if thats the case!  lol

[Mitzpah]

HB,

Thank you for reminding me and encouraging me

You, as a LBS spouse face the SAME temptations the MLC spouse does; and it falls to the LBS to set a higher standard, if only for yourself before the Lord who does hold us to a higher standard in this aspect.

It is true, if we meant our vows seriously and God was our witness as it says in Malachi, we have no business going down the same road.

I will set this issue aside  and as SS says, consider it an investment.

[LisaLives]

Rediscover--I find it interesting that you reacted so strongly to thinking you were being told to divorce.  Why was that so awful for you?  And if it is, how can you so easily think about having a sexual relationship outside of your marriage, but so wanting your marriage and family and not being sure if he could handle it?  I am not judging, I just find your strong reaction puzzling--generally people who are open about sex are rather blase about the legalities of marriage.   

We do define things differently, but I see in you a contradiction.  As far as I was concerned, I did not enter into any kind of dating relationship until my marriage was over--and that was at BD.  He told me he intended to divorce me and that I had 1-2 years of legal separation before the D would be final, so that I could get health insurance.  If he could have, he would have divorced me that day, but he gave me the time I needed to get stable. 

In my heart and mind, my marriage ended on BD, the paper was just a formality, but it seems for you divorce holds a greater meaning than sex...  Just wondering, Lisa

[StandandDeliver]

HB and others, I very much admire you for your faith and your ability to stick to your principles. The thing is that we are told that our marriages are dead, that we can not resurrect them, but must start them new. My confusion lies here - what if the legal document that keeps our marriage had been severed before I slept with someone else, but H still came back? Would I owe him honesty about my dates and relationships that had occurred since we formally divorced? Our marriage was a commitment (actually our relationship was a commitment) and I did not stray in the 16 years we were together including the 5 years together before we were formally married. I honoured my husband, I was honest with him and I endeavoured to conduct myself with consideration for his wants and needs throughout. I had my flaws, they were plenitiful, but I firmly believe that I would never have "cheated and lied and betrayed" my husband in the context of a monagamous relationship (which is what I wanted). I do not think that because he did this to me, it would therefore be ok for me to do so in the context of a functioning and committed marriage. Had he come back and wanted to work things out, I would not have considered "paying him back" or "making things even" - that is not what this was about for me. In the context of 2 wrongs don't make a right, I agree - I was not trying to equal his wrong, I simply considered my old marriage dead and was in a lot of turmoil about standing. I made a choice that others would not make in that context, I own that choice and the consequences of it.

I consider my moral marriage to have ended with his adultery and his leaving and his statement that our marriage was over forever. I am not comparing what I did to what he did because I actually don't think they have anything to do with each other, other than I would never have slept with anyone else were my H still choosing to be a meaningful part of my life. 

For now, the legal and fiscal side still remains although we are "seperated".  I am trying to explain the way I see things - maybe it is purely justification, or an excuse, or something. I am a believer in God and a higher power, but I do not have the same faith that some of you have in the strict moral adherence to one religious take on God, as in viewing the Christian Bible as my authority on God. I consider myself to be more pantheistic in my view of God and the world, I understand the deep connectedness of everything and I know that my actions have consequences and that when I do the wrong thing, I feel regret and a wish to redress if I can. I know that dating was wrong and I have asked God for forgiveness. Maybe seeing my old friend for a while was also wrong, but I just do not feel that I was harmed or that anyone else was harmed by that particular episode in my life. If H ever does return maybe I will need to tell him, maybe I won't - I don't think that I will want to know all the details of what he and OW did for the years they were together, and so if my 1 week bothers him, I will have to deal with that. I have already told him about the guy that I dated and so that will come as no surprise.
Perhaps I was weak, perhaps I was foolish. I am fallible, but I  do tend to be honest (otherwise this would be the last place I would have spoken out about these things, because I know that many here will judge me and do so harshly).

I am in no way suggesting that people ought to follow my path. I make many mistakes and I post them here, with as much honesty as I can to give them more information about decisions they face in this messy, messy journey we are on. I am imperfect, I know that, but I am human and have all the frailties that that entails.

[StandandDeliver]

Oh and one last thing (and it may not be relevant, but I think I will mention it anyway) MY H is not and has never been particularly religious. So, if he ever comes back it will be because he realises he still loves me, not because he feels that he has done something wrong in a religious sense - his sense of ethical guilt will stem from the fact that he was basically a good man who did not ever wish to harm anyone else.

This simply means that it is very unlikely, in my situation, that I will be accused of "adultery" by my H. I do not use that term with him because it means little to him. Trust, honesty and integrity, broken promises and betrayal are words he understands, but hitting him over the head with a Bible or Koran or any other religious text condemning his behaviour will have very little weight.

[limitless]

S & D,

I think I have given my stance on the issue - so I won't repeat it.

I just wanted to say that I admire your bravery and honesty - to share what you have shared - knowing that some would judge you harshly. 

I won't get into a debate over the level of importance of one type of slip versus another....but we all have "slips" to some degree or another.  And, by sharing this information with each other - maybe some of us will avoid a "slip" that we may make in the future.

I believed that another relationship or "dating" would not end the pain that I have experienced from the abandonment of my H.  The fact that you shared your story - confirmed it to me.  Our friends and family from the "real world" encourage us to move on....as they see it as an end to our suffering.  They don't truly understand.....not like an LBS does.  So, once in a while - we question.  Are our family and friends correct?  Are we holding on to something that just isn't there any longer?  Doubt is normal, I guess.

I think we all need to feel "safe" here - to say what we think or we are thinking of.  Just as we need to be open to hearing and listening to the advice we receive. 

And, as with anything, take what you want and leave the rest.

Take care, S & D

L

[In this for ME]

I guess I am like most women....I need the emotional connection and was devastated that my H found that connection emotionally with someone else.  I am just so typical.....

I'll say this again- the emotional connection is a short circut and probably has been for most of the LBS and MLCERs relationship also......now with an OW or OM it's less than that it's TOTALLY disconnected. They are emotional Zombies.

I consider my moral marriage to have ended with his adultery and his leaving and his statement that our marriage was over forever

I like this statement. Moral marriage and legal marriage I believe are two different things.And I don't feel like it's splitting hairs.

[StandandDeliver]

I believed that another relationship or "dating" would not end the pain that I have experienced from the abandonment of my H.  The fact that you shared your story - confirmed it to me.  Our friends and family from the "real world" encourage us to move on....as they see it as an end to our suffering.  They don't truly understand.....not like an LBS does.  So, once in a while - we question.  Are our family and friends correct?  Are we holding on to something that just isn't there any longer?

L -  I agree with both of these things. The dating did not end the pain at all, I have made that very clear in other posts I made relating to this topic on other threads. It distracted me for a while, but it did not stop the grief process and if I had let it continue it would probably have hindered and prolonged it for me, I hope knowing that helps some people.
In RL EVERYONE, I mean EVERYONE, thinks that I should get back "out there", that there is no moral choice here, that my marriage is already over and that I am delusional if I act any other way. That is not an excuse it is just that the reality of my normal life does not mesh with the idea of standing at ALL. Shortly after BD a good friend, who meant well, actually told me I should get out enjoy myself and sleep with as many men as possible! Needless to say, I disregarded that advice, but it just means that my "real" life existance is permanently telling me to move on. My own parents, sister, hell even my IL's think I need to forget him and start dating. Some people on the forum live in a very different cultural context to me, I live in a cosmopolitan city in what is a largely secular continent (Europe) where there are very different perspectives on many things including morality.

In this...

"I consider my moral marriage to have ended with his adultery and his leaving and his statement that our marriage was over forever". In much of Europe a wedding has 2 seperate ceremonies on 2 seperate days. The civil ceremony is performed in a town hall a day or two before the religious wedding. You are first married legally, then married "morally" in the religious context that you choose. So really you are right, I am not splitting hairs - the civil ceremony does not entail vows, only the church wedding does.

[limitless]

I guess I am like most women....I need the emotional connection and was devastated that my H found that connection emotionally with someone else.  I am just so typical.....

I'll say this again- the emotional connection is a short circut and probably has been for most of the LBS and MLCERs relationship also......now with an OW or OM it's less than that it's TOTALLY disconnected. They are emotional Zombies.

In this,

Thank you for that comment.  I know that you are right.  My H is incapable of having a true, intimate relationship with anyone.  I know that......I just keep forgetting it - when I take this cr*p personally.

Hugs,

L