[Not Applicable]

MB and GG, that is exactly the stuff I'm talking about.  Did other people witness this? Or is it just for LBS?

In my H's case, the main target actually was OW, something he admitted to, and he regarded it as one of her main functions (to put up with monster), to a lesser extent MIL and myself. And with myself he almost never did it in private, he was calm and nice in private, he always wanted witnesses to see monster with me. Honestly, I think most of the time he wants witnesses to hear or see him.

[OneHotMess]

My monster is almost gone now but when he was monstering he was channeling his abusive father. His voice became EXACTLY like his father's. I knew his father, I know the difference between my H's voice and his father's. He was possessed by his father. The same intonation, the same expressions (according to MIL). And then he would forget these incidents as if they never happened. Just adding to the whole sense that he was possessed.

Crazy you say that. H has become his father and doing exactly what his father did to him to my kids. His father got with someone else and basically pushed h and his brother aside for his new family. H seems like he is stuck in that time period.

[Not Applicable]

I just wanted to quickly share some observations I made yesterday and the day before. I feel as if I am standing in the calm of the eye of a hurricane. H has been pretty much respectful and helpful toward me during this time. However, the night before last he spun into an agitated manic state that included hours long monstering at/about: MIL, OW, his patients, his nephew, sister, half-brother. I have stayed out of it completely, but have been able to hear what is going on. It's as if some dam broke and he can't control the flow of the dirty water out of his mouth and the anger and annoyance about everything seems to be very intense.  I mean he was sitting there on the phone with his nephew, insulting his sister (the nephew's mother) using foul language that would be like calling your sister a SOB, with MIL sitting in the same room, so he in a way is insulting his mother at the same time.

It's as if he has at some level realized his problems are FOO related, not me, and he is lashing out about that. At least that is what it looks like to me. And the way OW fits in to all this is she is a stand-in for himself as a child, and he is acting the role of his father, so turning the tables on the abuse he got.

[Bewildered survivor]

I thought I’d bump this discussion up as I’ve been dealing with a high energy monster for a year now and no signs of it getting better... in fact just gets worse.

I’m getting monster through text, lawyers, passive aggressive behaviours, flaunting OW, and extreme control and emotional abuse through any means possible. My parents, friends and even solicitor as get some form of monster when he doesn’t get his way. He is currently ticking every single box for narcissist monster. I’m in therapy and started to explore the idea that maybe he has always been NPD but have started to accept that right now it doesn’t matter as I just have to deal with MLCer is monster and narcissist mode right now and some how get through it mentally stable myself.

I re read this thread and related to people’s accounts of monster. Especially those who talk about their displays of anger, particularly through passive aggression and control and the evil expression and smile when they know they are causing pain & soo many others things.

I also went back and read:

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_overview_monster.html

He ticks every box. Just not convinced in my case that he’s monster to protect himself. I believe it is personal to me and that he gets some pleasure out of hurting me at whatever cost.  He’s gettig still getting his narcastic supply from me hence me wondering if he is NPD.

It’s a tough one and as RCR said I may not know if it’s tempprary narc until he comes out of MLC.

[megogirl]

Have you ever met the Prisoner, mitten?

Just curious.....

[Bewildered survivor]

Have you ever met the Prisoner, mitten?

Just curious.....

I think shortly after BD while he was still living at home and I didn’t know about OW I got a look from him that will haunt me forever. It was a look of pain. He looked me straight in the eye whilst I was hugging the girls on the sofa and it was so uncomfortable that I had to look away and walk out of the room as it made me tearful. It was a look as if to say I really don’t want to do this but I can’t help it or it could have been a look to let me know how much I’ve hurt him (which was all I heard at the beginning). But I believe it was prisoner. Another time I got a call from what I now know as OW’s number and I suspected it was her number. When I answer it I pretended I did not recognise him and asked who it was and I had a very brief glimpse of old H’s voice when he said it’s me. Before he moved in with OW I also got a call in the middle of the night about our house alarm but I believe it was made up and he just wanted to ring to hear my voice.

Other than that- no sign of prisoner in a year. But then I’ve had no direct face to face verbal contact with him since last year and since he’s been living with OW. Now it’s just constant manic monster with no signs that prisoner is even in there.

[megogirl]

I only asked cos it seemed like you've had sooo much Monster (as have I), and my short, fleeting encounters with Prisoner/real H have been sooo eye-opening.

Like, for one brief, shining moment....THERE HE IS!

I don't speak to H so it's been many months since I got "that phone call."  But....that's ok.

I didn't dream that phone call. 

He is "in there."   

[Not Applicable]

I have seen lots of women on here say they think their spouses have NPD. I don't know your spouses to make that call definitively, but to be perfectly honest, I have not seen one description that suggests to me that anyone has a narcissist spouse. Especially considering it is a lifelong condition and you would not suddenly notice it in MLC. In fact, I suspect a narcissist would not have an MLC because their behavior is just lifelong and doesn't start at mid-age nor does it stop. It's always been there. Selfish self-centered behavior does not make someone a narcissist. Monster does not make someone a narcissist.

To be honest, I don't know how anyone could confuse MLC and narcissism and think they even overlap. They are very different beasts. They may both be obnoxious, they both may have marital issues and split from their spouses, but it just is NOT the same thing.

I'm starting to suspect that what we call "MLC" on here is actually a number of different conditions that have some similarities and may superficially look and even start out the same, but actually are distinct conditions with different likely outcomes. I keep going back in my mind to the survey RCR did and she found that all of the reconciliations involved clinging boomerangs. Then you have other contact types. A clinging boomerang never detaches from their spouse so it makes it easier for them to come back. If someone vanishes, they have disconnected. They may start off similarly, say the same things, even act a bit the same, but in the end, I don't think these actually are the same thing. I don't think it is so much a game of Russian Roulette which ones are going to make an attempt to return and which ones aren't. I think with time if someone studied all this, it would be clear what symptoms can be used to predict a return.

Yet, we are stuck with saying like standing is for you, no expectations, blah blah blah blah. It's a rather primitive approach.

[Bewildered survivor]

GonerinGhana

I’m not sure I agree with you that naracists can’t have a MLC nor do I agree with you that they are different beasts. You do not know my spouse, story or circumstances so to suggest that you haven’t seen one description that suggests NPD comes across as quite patronising. No one on here is an expert- and I believe we should only express opinions in a thoughtful way which creates discussion not the way in which you are expressing your opinions. It’s very offensive and insensitive. Peoples situations have many variables and complexities.

I have been working with a therapist who I’m sorry is far more qualified to make these jusdgments and has worked with many woman victims of narcasitss. Part of this work is to look back for red flags and there are many that suggest he may have been wearing a mask that MLC has triggered to slip. As a therapist I’m working on why I dinnt notice these flags and have been reading that the statistics are high for a therapist to become involved with one. Other factors such as strict cultural expectations can mean someone can hold the mask much longer therefore NPD is not overt it’s civert- I suggest you read a bit about this. . I’m still working through this and trying to figure it out as it’s a big factor in my standing. I’m not saying I fully believe he is NPD rather than MLC yet.


I come to this forum to help me process thoughts and ideas and to get some suppport and reassurance and unfortunately from some of your posts GonerinGhana you come across as patronising and as if you know  more than anyone else. You make comments that you seem convinced come from some kind of expert stance. Your post is evidence a very narrow minded view- unfortunately there are few other like you. You say”  I can’t make that call definitively but to be perfectly honest I have not seen one description that suggests to me a naracisst spouse”. How on earth can you come to
This conclusion from a support forum and a few posts- that  are by no means providing you with enough insight in to someone else’s life or circumstances??

I’m sorry if I come across as harsh but recently I’ve been reading long time posters who seem to be bullying others on here in a very unkind way and as a newbie makes me reluctant to post sometimes. I think this needs to be nipped in the bud. Life as a LBS is hard enough.

[Not Applicable]

You think disagreeing is bullying???

Go look up a clinical definition of NPD. The reason I say that I have not seen anyone that appears to be NPD is because 1-having certain traits that are common of NPD does not by itself make it NPD, 2-I don't see people saying their spouses act this way with others, like in a work context, or at the supermarket. They could be doing that but without that information, the picture is incomplete.

And yes, you do need a proper diagnosis, and I am not saying I am qualified to give one. But an LBS, unless they are clinical psychologist or psychiatrist, isn't qualified either. And it may also be hard for someone to see their own spouse's mental illness clearly in any case as they are going to be biased and/or in denial.

As for a therapist working with women whose husbands allegedly have NPD. Well, then clearly she isn't qualified to be diagnosing them as the number one rule for diagnosis is firsthand examination by the person diagnosing them. She can say they have narcissistic traits, but if she hasn't examined their spouses themselves, then she doesn't know for sure. I don't know if your therapist is clinically qualified but I would hazard a guess most counselors and therapists people on here are seeing are trained in providing therapy, not diagnosing illnesses.

I have never claimed to have any superior knowledge about mental illness here, it's quite the opposite. What I am saying is people going around saying my spouse is NPD, my spouse is bi-polar, my spouse is psychotic, etc etc as if they have an actual diagnosis when they don't, means nothing. I know what I DON'T know. A lot of people think they DO know things when they don't or insist they know things when they don't.

My husband is a doctor and at one point a few months ago he kept monstering and calling me "psychotic" and "sick in the head." I said OK, if you think that, then I am perfectly happy to go to a psychiatrist and get a diagnosis. Book me an appointment. That shut him up, right away. He knew and I knew that there was no basis for what he was saying.

I came here to learn about MLC. You can't make any advancement in knowledge if everyone falls in line and spouts off the party line like sheep. Differences of opinion are not unhealthy, they are not personal attacks or attempts to act superior.

As for old timers, well as long as they are talking from their own experiences and not just repeating tag lines, then yes, newbies should be listening to them. But I know from my own experience, that it takes the progression of MLC for the LBS to actually understand and see why some advice applies. If you aren't at a particular stage yet, some of the advice from oldtimers may actually seem stupid; it did to me, and I am willing to admit that at first I resented some of the advice and thought the oldtimers were know-it-alls too but that my opinion changed over time. As time progressed and my H has reached different stages, I was able to see how the advice applied. But you have to be in the thick of a stage to really comprehend it.

I will admit I have never shared my entire story on here publicly. Maybe sometime in the future I will but I have my reasons for not doing it. There are a few members who know it, but I think they would agree that I have firsthand insight into one aspect of MLC that no one else on here has and I do speak with confidence about that area as I have absolutely no need to monkey brain about it as everyone else does. But I speak with confidence based on my experience. I can't change my experience and I do not need to make apologies for it. It's what I have lived and what makes me think the way I do.