[justasking]

Hobo

The journey for the MLC is not the spouses fault. It was set up many years before they even met and will happen. But at BD often some of the justifications used will give an insight into 'issues' with the spouse i.e quick to anger. This maybe the first time they have any insight into how that has impacted on their relationship in the marriage. But you are right the crisis is nothing to do with the spouse.

It is never wise to tell the MLCer their flaws early in the crisis as they use that as further justification to leave. But it takes two to make a marriage and their will be elements of her behaviour you may not want back. there are certainly elements of my H behaviour I would no longer accept.

But mirror work is deeper than pointing the visible flaws right. The LBS journey is about reflection, analysis and at times eureka moments. But this work comes when the time is right for the LBS. When they are strong enough to look at their life in the face.

The mirror work is for you not a ploy to get your wife back. It will take you forward into your future and better and happier person whatever the outcome from this journey and crisis.

The Midlife crisis is one journey but the LBS has their journey too which often mirrors the MLCer in finding our own identify again.

[limitless]

Summer and all.

With regard to your comments on 'mirror work'... 

When you bring up the need to do 'mirror work' and then you say that MLC is not her fault, her H would have gone through MLC anyway, it just is contradictory.  Especially if it is mentioned at the same time.

I know I have flaws to work on, I am quick to anger, I took things for granted, I focused a lot of energy on making sure our financial budget is adhered to....  I didnt exercise enough etc...  all are flaws that I can easily work on.

But when you bring those up at the SAME time as speaking about the MLCer and what he/she has done, it DOES sound mean.  I know it' not your intention, but I can see how it can be taken.

I think what she needs now is someone to listen and understand her, not tell her - her own flaws.

When I just got the BD, my MLCer told me ALL my flaws for the past 22 years.  Well, it would help if she told me while I was married, and while she still loved me, then I can change.  After she told me, I vowed to change....  It was not enough....

When you tell an LBSer, that this MLC is not about them - but then you have to do mirror work and work on yourself...  then it IS confusing.  EVERYONE has flaws, everyone has mirror work to do - not just the LBSer...

Just my thoughts.

Hobo,

I have struggled with the same thoughts...so you are not alone.

Just like the MLCer - we go through our own "stages."  (Just a whole lot quicker - or, maybe not -  )

Regarding MLC not being the MLCer's "fault."  I don't know about that.  Everyone has their own challenges and I've yet to find a family that was not dis-functional in one way or another.  Most of these MLCer's have siblings who grew up in the same households and with the same parents - but, for one reason or another - these siblings didn't leave their spouses and their families.  Or, in some instances, they did.

As RCR points out - the MLCer is still responsible for the things that he/she does.  Yes.  The person in crisis did not have the coping skills to handle a transition and, thus, the transition turned into a full blown crisis.  But, it becomes a crisis due to the MLCers actions.  Had the MLCer actually opened his/her mouth and talked about the doubts he/she was having....searched out and found some "help" (and NOT from an Other Person" but from a counselor who understands MLC) maybe things would/could have been different.  To say that the MLCer is "not responsible" - is to give them a free pass where all is just forgiven.....

It just doesn't work like that.  Not that I know exactly how it works......I seem to have come to an understanding of how it doesn't work.   

I got a long list of my "faults" at BD and the 2.5 months between BD and my H's "moving out."  Wow!  He had a long list!  I truly sucked!  And, I bought into it!  Hook, line and sinker.  I spent months feeling very guilty.  How I had messed up my marriage, taken away my H's manhood, pushed him away, broken up my family....etc.  It's documented pretty well in my early threads.  I think this is just part of our journey (and I HATE that word, by the way  ).  Later, I was able to separate the "spewing" from the truth.  Yes.  There are issues that I have and that I am addressing.  But, was I the Ogre my H spoke about?  No.  I wasn't.  Actually, I am a pretty nice person.......if I don't have to say so myself.  (I guess I have to say so myself  )

After BD, I tried to make all the changes my H had commented on - overnight, by the way.  You know what I got?  Too little, too late.  NOW, I wanted to fix myself!  (I think many of us have received the same feedback).  The mistake was doing it for HIM.  He was just trying to justify his actions - to relieve his guilt.  If it is all my fault, it can't be his, right?  He didn't break up his family....I was impossible to live with.  This is just part of the MLC spew......that surrounds some truth.  The trick, for the LBS, is to go through that spew and find the truth...and address those issues WE believe that we need to address.  And toss the rest out....because much of it is bull-oney!

No.  Their crisis is about THEM.  Our situation, is about US.  Look at your relationship.  Take away the blinders or the rose colored glasses.  When I look at my relationship (and past relationships) - I find that I am attracted to lost souls.  Why?  Why is this?  I got married young (20) and had only had one other relationship, prior to marrying my spouse.  Both of these men (children??) - were lost souls........having issues that they needed to address - but didn't.  My first boyfriend had abandonment issues (his mother had abandoned the family and gone back to a previous relationship? - MLC, anyone???) - and, thus, my first boyfriend had commitment issues - always looking for someone to make him feel better about himself.  My H has a Narcisistic mother.......and addiction issues.  Hmmmm... Two for two.  These are choices that I made.....Why?  Something that I need to look at.

I also found that I had a deep need to control......(which, in reality, I had NO control).  This is something that goes into my other relationships - including those with my children).  Yes.  I need to address these, and I am.

But, these things are separate from H's issues.....He ran away and is avoiding dealing with his.  I can't help him.  He's on his own.  I just need to leave him to it.  Is there damage from his actions?  Yes.  And this is damage that HE will need to address. 

I need to be the best ME I can - for myself and my kids......He is on his own.

Does that mean that I don't care for him or about him?  No.  It doesn't.  I certainly don't want to see him fall apart and lose everything.  But, I have zero control over that......  Letting go and letting go of (perceived) control are HUGE for me. 

I know it all sounds like a contradiction.....very confusing.  But, it is the old double edged sword.  Our strengths can also be our weaknesses, if we allow ourselves to take them to an extreme.

Now...I am just babbling.

Sorry.

L

[rover77]

TB...maybe they are just saying to look at yourself and own any part you had in this...that will take time..on the other hand you didn't deserve this ..nor did your kids..you were 'good enough' as is for a long time..now if you think it neccessary to make changes..they should be for you...no one else..and as for the RAS ..they avoid mirrors...rely on other people and 'things' for their self worth..pretty lame and shallow..thats how you got here lol...I will never truly  in my soul understand or accept or even forgive..but I will continue with my life.. raise my children..and not aspire to more..I find comfort in that..acceptance...no more fighting or hoping..she went to work and didn't come home..its  sudden and complete..when I look in the mirror..their is still a scar..a big ugly one..only I see it...so I dont play with it too much

[Thundarr]

Wow, Rover, very poignant and direct as always.  Very well put.  But you need to bring your Alf icon back.  It's just not the same without it.  Also there is someone here who writes with your same style (Wondering I think(.   You two should meet.

Anyone remember the MLC woman I met with a couple months ago?  I met with her first ex on Friday and he described MLC perfectly in speaking of her.  "Chasing happiness, running away, etc.". He said he came home to a nearly empty house with only a table and a dryer left.  He soon discovered OM and she married him less than a year later.  Now she's left him and chased happiness all the way across the country.  What really resonated with me though is how he said he'd take her back even today.  "I'll love her forever.  You can't really stop after being with someone for so long.  Maybe she'll wake up and come home someday.  I hope she does.". He has no clue about my sitch, and probably thought the tear in my eyes was for his.  He's a tough war vet, btw, and almost broke down when he said he probably won't live long enough to see her come home.  Really really sad.

[Dontgiveup]

I got a long list of my "faults" at BD and the 2.5 months between BD and my H's "moving out."  Wow!  He had a long list!  I truly sucked!  And, I bought into it!  Hook, line and sinker.  I spent months feeling very guilty.  How I had messed up my marriage, taken away my H's manhood, pushed him away, broken up my family....etc.  It's documented pretty well in my early threads.  I think this is just part of our journey (and I HATE that word, by the way  ).  Later, I was able to separate the "spewing" from the truth.  Yes.  There are issues that I have and that I am addressing.  But, was I the Ogre my H spoke about?  No.  I wasn't.  Actually, I am a pretty nice person.......if I don't have to say so myself.  (I guess I have to say so myself  )

Hobo and Limitless both make good points (and Limitless I am in your boat about not being too fond of the word journey for the LBS either).  Though I do like RCR's article on Progress....Back Limbo Forward, about the MLCer's journey.

As far as the term "mirror work".....I don't use it.  I see how it can imply fault on the part of the LBS for the crisis.  And there is no fault of the LBS for the crisis.  The crisis is a maturation process stemming from unresolved issues or lack of development from childhood (coping skills probably being at the top of the list).

I'm ok with the terms "focusing on Self" or "working on Self".  As I was told early on by both my counselor and by Jim Conway's information, what the LBS is really doing is getting their focus off the MLCer.  If you focus on the actions and behaviors of the MLCer....you will get driven batty.....and you will have a very difficult time detaching.  A lot of LBS are understandably concerned about the OM/OW.  I learned that it really is true that the MLCer is unable to maintain a relationship with anyone.  When they are, it is my belief that there is a very good chance it will be with the LBS.....if the LBS is still available and wants to reconcile....which in many cases they are not available or do not want to.

Below is a piece from RCR's article Midlife Crisis Takes Time.  It's a reminder that despite what your MLCer is trying to get you to believe (Projection), the crisis is not the LBS fault, nor is the crisis because of a bad marriage.

"Though no one is perfect, in the beginning you will search your own behaviour for what went wrong. Since the MLCer often offers a long list of your transgressions, it is not a difficult search. In the beginning, many LBS's accept this blame, using it as the excuse for the bad marriage. For many experiencing this crisis in their marriage, there was no bad marriage. Though nothing is perfect, many problems were not significant enough to warrant danger. The problem is the Midlife Crisis. Some of the MLCer complaints are valid. Listen, validate and affirm, and then filter what feels valid to you. This crisis is not your fault; it would have happened regardless of your behaviour."

Like Limitless and most of the rest of us, at bomb drop I heard about my faults.  I will confess that even at bomb drop, the things my MLCer said sounded absurd to me.  They were certainly not reasons to end a marriage.  Below is a piece from RCR's Standing article Clarifying the Concept II that would sum up how I felt.  I recognized the absurdity of what my MLCer was saying.

"Some LBSs recognize the MLCer's arguments and behavior as so absurd that they believe this cannot be real--it won't last forever even if it lasts for a few years. Some Stand because when a spouse says it is over it may not seem as though it is over--he may not seem as though he means it, or he may seem to mean it at that moment, but his behaviors has been changing and the messages are mixed."

So that's what I feel about "mirror work", or as I would prefer "focusing on the Self".

[Thundarr]

Excellent DGU.  I think I will take your position as it is in line with how I see that as well.  All good and insightful posts today.

I do have a question, though trivial, concerning the spelling of "behavior" in the first article.  Was it not written by RCR?  Thanks!

[Mamma Bear]

  DGU got me thinking   I actually liked the term 'mirror work' bc I've found most people I encounter like me and want to be around me   But my H ran to get away from me....   By looking in the mirror I could start to find 'blemishes' that were like defects in my personality actually thwarting a pleasant R with my H...
   That plus he had NO COPING SKILLS. Zero Zilch Nada Nunca Zippo   Goose egg...

[rover77]

my faults...hmm...trying to pick out from the screams...kinda hard..'you forgot about me'..'weren't there for me'...'shattered my self esteem'..'put me on the curb with a sign around my neck'..and in the divorce affidavit...'crisis oriented and non foward thinking'..'forgetful and disorganized..left the gate open and dog got out and was hit by a car' (I swear)..'moody'...oh well...truth is she didn't really tell me much...oh..and I forgot the classic 'controlling,jealous and manipulative'...

[Shantilly Lace]

So Rover she projected onto you, which they all do.

Unfortunately for me, during the worst monster period and even now he had some valid points.  NOT total truths by the way and none divorce worthy really.  But hey this is why it's a crisis.  Oh and my favourite was 'you didn't smile at me once when I came home' oh yeah that's sane.

To be honest I hope you never understand full as it means you have been there yourself and it is a highly unpleasant experience.  Highly, highly.  Oh it words just aren't enough, nd mine was hormone induced NOT the same although some behaviours were very similar t those on here.
And even certain things Dearheart has said as although I thought them I never said them to him,yet here they come out of his mouth.

I hope you reach a point of true forgiveness Rover, just for you, so that scar you see isn't so raw to touch.  It won't ever disappear totally but without forgiveness it will allow things to fester.  You sound so new at this I'm sorry if I have missed your BD length but hope should be for you and a better future with or witout your spouse.  You should aspire to happiness even without er.  What makes you afraid to aspire to leading a great lif alone or with your children?
Why won't you?

It sounds and I may have read it wrong because she left your life is now on hold of some form? that you will settle for lessthen a fulfilling life, and that my friend will be cheating yourself and your children.
Take care

 

[rover77]

new?..lol..no...3.5 years into her mlc..3 since betrayal..(that I know of)...2.5 separated and 13 months divorced..forgiveness isn't on my agenda..and how can I forget..no..I will always be watching for her to decompensate again..my kids know to bail out if she ever gets that way again..my life isn't on hold..I go forth every day..its just that I accepted it..and I have a destination..takes alot off the table..a lot less worries..I have a social life..friends..I date and even get laid on occasion..but I never bond..and thats both instinct and choice..I had a life and a marriage..thats behind me now..my recovery wasn't about replacing what was gone..it was about facing the loss and the realization that is all there is..after awhile..its ok..you don't want anymore..you just keep going..everybody is different..I don't wait for the big R and I don't wish for another..my only goal or resonsibility is to my kids..and with 50% custody..I have meaning..the every other weekend dad thing would have killed me.