[Rollercoasterider]

I'm struggling with including my WAS in family activities or not. He still sees OW. We are 9 months post BD. He lives in an apartment on his own.

WAS asked to be included in family activities but my IC felt that was NOT a good idea. Please read my thread if you have time. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

I am in full agreement with your counselor. Set activities as a boundary: We would love for you to participate and be part of the family, but not while you are committing adultery. Inappropriate behavior will not be tolerated and right now your entire life is about being both an inappropriate father and husband.

[DancingInTheRain]

Thank you forthetrees and Rollercoasterider. Your advice and guidance is greatly appreciated. Indeed it is very difficult for me to see the WAS. At the time I think it's what I want, but then the aftereffects on my emotions are not helpful at all.

[willitgetbetter]

Hi Everyone,

I am now in reconnection. I am struggling with the fact that I have not received any acknowledgments or apologies. I know it is still early and that they will likely come over time. He says he's sorry by his actions and thanking me for small things, and his affection, but I have yet to hear any words on the subject. I still have flashbacks and get a bit angry thinking of things that happened in the past year.

Are these gracious acts and affection the first step before the words of apology and signs of remorse? And before they actually come out of their mouth with words and say "I want to stay"? I believe he does, even seems to be "falling in love" with me again. Kisses and putting his forehead on mine and deep breathing.

Any suggestions on how to try to increase my patience in waiting for this grand event? LOL

Thanks!

[willitgetbetter]

First I should have said that I am not sure that I am in reconnection. I ammmmm new to this.   But I do believe he is out of replay.

(Some excerpts from a recent post on my thread:)

As a refresher, BD was July 2011. There was at least an EA with much older OW. Sat me down and said he wanted a separation, then a divorce, but never did anything about it. I asked him to stop talking to/seeing OW, he wouldn't commit to it, despite marriage counseling. So I filed for divorce. He never left, never got an attorney (pretended he did) or responded, and still hasn't left or gotten an attorney or responded. But I have still not withdrawn the divorce petition. And we do not discuss it, ever.

 To give some examples in the past 6 or so months:

--He was at work a few weeks ago and called our daughter. Was on speakerphone. He said "I love you D". She said "I love you too." Then he said "Tell mommy I love her."

--He has progressed. He often calls from work and said "I love you guys" on speaker phone. (I am grouped in with the daughter, as "you guys", but its a start)

--Tells daughter over the phone to "Give Mommy a kiss for me" sometimes.

--I told him I was going to sell my engagement ring and wedding band for money. He waited an hour and texted back "No. Don't do that. Those are for D when she grows up. If anything, I will sell mine." He left his rings on my nightstand. I didn't touch them. And then he moved them back to his nightstand about 5 days later. (Think that was a test for me)

--A few months ago, daughter told him she was excited because I said I would probably have a baby in 2014. He looked at me with a puzzled, "excuse me?" look. (He didn't take me aside and say hell no. Just looked at me and kept walking down the hallway. And hasn't mentioned it. Much better improvement from the evil look he gave me when he thought I was pregnant a year ago, after my miscarriage. He looked at me with the nastiest look I have ever seen from him or anyone, pierced my heart.)

--Walked up to me on Christmas after I said I couldn't find my foundation. Told me I don't need to wear any makeup.

--Woke up one morning last week, didn't say a word, and just walked up to me in the kitchen and hugged me for a long time, kissed my neck, hugged me more, kissed my lips and said "Hi. How are you feeling this morning?"

--Woke me up at 6am a few days ago, and said "Come over here. Roll over." I did and put my head on his chest. He rubbed and kissed my forehead and asked me how I was doing. I asked why he was up. He said "I thought you could use a hug". I said "Oh."  He said "do you like this"? I said "Yes. Why are you being like this?" Then he said "Well, I needed a hug too." Then we talked about random stuff for about 15 minutes and both rolled over and went to sleep.

--Tells me he has faith in me that I will find a good job (used to treat me like I was being lazy)

--Offered to rub my feet because I'd been working hard.

--When I came home from work, he asked what was wrong. I said "I am exhausted". He said "Well, you should be. You work hard." (Huh, what happened to me being a lazy bum?! LOL)


Other random consistent stuff:

-Will just walk up and kiss me and hug me randomly
-Calls and checks up on me to see what I am doing if I am out with my car (worried are we....hehehe)
-Takes my car to put gas in it
-Brings me coffee to bed in the mornings sometimes
-Does more chores
-When I wake him to go to work, he always holds my hand and says "Climb up here" or pulls me up on the bed and kisses and hugs me, rubs my back
-Comes to rub my back and kiss me when I'm working on the computer
-Calls or texts me every night from work to thank me for making him coffee or dinner, and chats a bit
-Sex becoming even more amazing than before, we have always had great chemistry, but even better (also better for me because I rarely think of OW during it anymore)


I think he is at least awakening stage because I can feel his emotions, him taking in deep breaths and sighing when he kisses me. The other night I had a headache. When he came home from work, he pulled me close, put my face in both of his hands and whispered softly "I'm happy your headache is gone" and kissed me forehead and then my lips. Then he placed his forehead on mine, inhaled deeply, with my face still in his hands, and let out a big sigh and kissed me again. It was pretty adorable. I haven't heard him "love sigh" for many years.

Hard to figure out because I can't find much about Awakening. Saw a reference in a post that RCR was going to write an article about Awakening a few years ago. If anyone can direct me to it, that would be great. And/or any thoughts about "our stage". Thanks!!!

[justasking]

Does sound like awakening but even so he can run again. He is feeling his way forward and trying to see if you are open to a new relationship and whether he wants a new relationship. He's gauging reactions. Before any reconnection with you he is likely to reconnect to friends and family including your D first. We always come last 

This could go on for months.

You won't see any apologies or remorse until he hits reconciliation and there is still a long way to go.

Remain detached but approachable. Follow your intuition and see how it goes. This isn't an easy road to travel with all it's bumps and twists.

[willitgetbetter]

Hi Just Asking,

Thanks for responding.

He started reconnecting with his semi-estranged mom about 2 years ago. And he is very much connected to our D. For quite awhile, I basically became invisible and so was our D. He started taking OW to visit her at the hospital and not taking me with him when I asked to go. Didn't even speak to me or the D at home. I didn't realize what was going on until I was told by his sister. But now he can't keep his hands off of either of us. Is very affectionate and says "I love you" to both of us.

I get general apologies. Like if I bring up the hospital thing. He will hug and kiss me and say "I'm sorry you feel hurt" but not yet "I'm sorry I did XYZ".

I have a question though: How can he feel enough to deep breathe, put his forehead to mine, whisper to me and kiss me (that moment was really amazing, he used to do that years ago when we were deeply in love)? And also now say "I love you", "I miss you" and other loving things if he hasn't even gotten anywhere near reconnection and is still only "deciding" if he wants a relationship with me? Wouldn't saying "I love you" come only around the same time as apologies and remorse?

He makes comments about long term. For example, like asking me what "are you going to do when I can no longer get an erection 20 years from now?" And talks about us buying a house with a yard, etc... And he is still "deciding"? Yikes. I thought we were really "on our way". LOL. Reality slap for me. LOL.

Also, I am in a serious dilemma. I am 41 and want another child. We have a 7 year old girl, who asks for a sibling often and sometimes cries about it and being alone. I also really want another baby, but just one more.  If this process can take up to another 4 years, I don't have that time. And that is not something I am willing to sacrifice not knowing how this is going to turn out. I already miscarried our second one in 2011. If I miss my short window, I will resent him even more.

At BD he told me he didn't want to have anymore kids and wouldn't change his mind so we might as well separate and divorce. That was almost 2 years ago, but he's still here. He has noticed that I still have the carseat and all the baby clothes and items that I had been saving for Baby #2. The carseat is actually in the hallway. Has been for a few months. I expected him to suggest that I give it away or ask why I am holding on to it, but he hasn't. My daughter has also brought it up and said "2014, right mommy" and I have said "yes, honey, I hope so". This was in front of him. All he did was give me a funny look but he has never said anything. I think he is aware that I haven't changed my mind about a baby and wont, especially given the miscarriage. So far, he is still here and still making improvements and showing affection. Hoping that means its because he's still open to the idea, because if he was dead against it, I would think he would want to have a talk about it or would leave.

After hearing and realizing that we aren't even at reconnection, I am disappointed and fearful because I don't think I can wait this out. Unless he is going to agree to have one. He's made bad and rash decisions during this process, so I am hoping that he is able to be willing to decide to do this within the next year. That is the longest I can wait.

I want to have the baby talk but don't know how long I should wait. Right now I am planning on the end of summer. By then, my finances will be better and we can separate if that is what is to be. Any advice on how to approach this?

[justasking]

Willlit

No one knows what their time frame is. They can drag their feet or come through one stage faster than others. There is no magic wand or timeframe for the MLCer to work too.

The way he speaks to you is to get your reaction but also to feel his own. He needs to know that you can move forward together. Often awakening can move into reconnection without much of a blip. But he is still healing. Needs time and space and needs to pursue you and not the other way around. He may still ask to come home and continue his healing as the reconnection blossoms. The biggest majority do. So all is still possible at the moment.

The baby seat in the hall gave you an insight into his feelings. He didn't run but he didn't buy into it either. This causes him pressure and pressure makes them run.

I know you have a window of opportunity but if you separated then you would also miss that opportunity. All you can do is let him lead and hope he keeps on with his positive movement. But also give him any time he needs to reflect and heal. It will all come together as long as you don't spook him.

 Babies can arrive before they are out of the tunnel. There are some babies born whilst they are in replay. Your BD was only July 2011 so in MLC script your not long into this. Make time your healer and not your enemy. It will take as long as it takes but within that many things can happen. You held firm when he spoke of divorce and look where you are today 

Hugs

[Stillpraying]

I'm struggling with including my WAS in family activities or not. He still sees OW. We are 9 months post BD. He lives in an apartment on his own.

WAS asked to be included in family activities but my IC felt that was NOT a good idea. Please read my thread if you have time. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

I am in full agreement with your counselor. Set activities as a boundary: We would love for you to participate and be part of the family, but not while you are committing adultery. Inappropriate behavior will not be tolerated and right now your entire life is about being both an inappropriate father and husband.

I did recently invite H to join two of the boys birthday parties with their friends (Not family).  H did show up to one but was very awkward.  he thought it was at a venue other than our home.  My intention was to let the kids have mum and dad both present at their parties and show H the door was open for him to be involved in that aspect of their lives.  Also to allow him to meet the other parents of the kids friends so that he may be more open to having their friends over when the kids are at his place (break the ice).
However, I am confused also.  My counsellor also did not think it was a good idea.  I managed to be detached so I felt Ok.  H didn't really offer to help with anything so he was more of a hindrance than a co-parent.  However, I tried to have 'no expectation'.  In a sense I feel ok in that he can never say I didn't let him be involved.
I'm confused because other times I've been told I'm judgemental because I don't appreciate that he and the OW1 and OW2 are invited by people we both used to know from church to their place with the kids while we are still married.  I'm trying hard to treat H personally with respect but it really hurts that others just accept him with his new life in front of my children.  I feel I am really stuck on this point.

[OldPilot]

I'm struggling with including my WAS in family activities or not. He still sees OW. We are 9 months post BD. He lives in an apartment on his own.

WAS asked to be included in family activities but my IC felt that was NOT a good idea. Please read my thread if you have time. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

I am in full agreement with your counselor. Set activities as a boundary: We would love for you to participate and be part of the family, but not while you are committing adultery. Inappropriate behavior will not be tolerated and right now your entire life is about being both an inappropriate father and husband.

I did recently invite H to join two of the boys birthday parties with their friends (Not family).  H did show up to one but was very awkward.  he thought it was at a venue other than our home.  My intention was to let the kids have mum and dad both present at their parties and show H the door was open for him to be involved in that aspect of their lives.  Also to allow him to meet the other parents of the kids friends so that he may be more open to having their friends over when the kids are at his place (break the ice).
However, I am confused also.  My counsellor also did not think it was a good idea.  I managed to be detached so I felt Ok.  H didn't really offer to help with anything so he was more of a hindrance than a co-parent.  However, I tried to have 'no expectation'.  In a sense I feel ok in that he can never say I didn't let him be involved.
I'm confused because other times I've been told I'm judgemental because I don't appreciate that he and the OW1 and OW2 are invited by people we both used to know from church to their place with the kids while we are still married.  I'm trying hard to treat H personally with respect but it really hurts that others just accept him with his new life in front of my children.  I feel I am really stuck on this point.

So what were you expecting?
if you are confused you must have been expecting something to happen that didn't.

I think I may agree with your cousellor that this was not the best of ideas.

Although you were trying to show your husband that the door is open, you were also saying to your children that you approve of your husbands behavior and that it is OK to have OW1 or OW2 because you invited him to the party.
At least that is the way I see it.

[Stillpraying]

Thanks OP
I wasn't confused about his non-action at the party. but more along the latter part of your post.

I do not want to let the kids think it's ok to have an OW.  I've been very outspoken on this.  It upsets me how he and OW are invited out with the children and that MIL has not met OW also but still wanted to be friends with me.  I feel as if they condone or enable him to continue in this wrong behaviour.
However, I've then been accused of being judgemental.  So I'm confused about my reactions and my strong stance that he not be invited or welcome with OW in tow.  Am I doing the right thing and what is healthy for the kids??  ie to Have mum and dad together at their party or to keep the door shut to H while he behaves this way.  And what after the divorce is final?  Does that make it different?