[Musica]

From my point of view MLC is different from a breakdown ... a friend had a breakdown and was more or less unable to function at all, didn't get out of bed, didn't interact with anyone.

My H is more suffering from delusions, and schizophrenia, he has a dual life, when he is here, he says he is unhappy with his life and often cries when he has to leave, he doesn't know how to relate to his children and says he has no purpose in life. However, he often goes out on his motorbike, talks to strangers easily, laughs, stays out late and drinks, and has recently I suspect got back with OW for sex. All those things are his other life ... he thinks he deserves to have a fun filled life. He cares not how this damages his children, and how it hurts anybody else. He has delusions that everything is just fine with his left behind family, kids get over it, its not important.  He isn't having a breakdown, in some ways I wish he was, it would be easier for us to deal with and understand.

[honour]

However, he often goes out on his motorbike, talks to strangers easily, laughs, stays out late and drinks, and has recently I suspect got back with OW for sex. All those things are his other life ... he thinks he deserves to have a fun filled life.

This part I believe is the social masks that hides the psychosis. You get to see delusional, unhealthy personality but he has to hide it from the wider world in order to gain acceptance and approval to bolster is poor self-esteem. His self-loathing he can inflict on you.

It is delusional to believe that everything will be well with his left behind family and that the children will get over it. Everyone knows that children from broken homes are damaged in some way. Yet the MLCer is blinded to this truth.

honour

[kikki]

Honour - that was explained beautifully!

[OnMyJourney]

Been reading more about depression including a book called Depression Fallout by Anne Sheffield (2003) written for partners of depressed people.  There's also a website with a forum.

It gives much the same advice to non-depressed partners dealing with a depressed partner, as LBSers are given in dealing with MLCers.

I'm tempted to try some of the approaches recommended in the book which includes more questioning/pursuing which as LBS we are advised to avoid.  Will give it some thought and post on my regular thread when I figure out what it all means for me. 

In the meantime would like to hear from others as the book totally describes my H so now I'm feeling confused about the difference between MLC and depression.  I know that depression underlies MLC but what is the difference between MLC and serious depression? I don't understand the difference.

OMJ

[angelgirl]

I personally think that MLC is a form of severe depression. Why some people experience MLC-reaction depends on their issues, past experiences, personality type and how they react/cope to depression. There is a spectrum for depression, just as there is for anxiety. For example, OCD is a severe form of anxiety. Why some people go that far and others have panic attacks is a combination of factors.

My H had a history of Seasonal Depression. He had a host of other elements that created the perfect brew for MLC. However, we noted that a strong short-term dose of anti-depressant did help him out of the most psychotic part of MLC. After that he's been dealing with issues that led up to his episode without the use of meds.

I am no expert, but this is what I observed. So yes, I think they are related.

angelgirl

[Sassyone]

I agree, MLC is a severe form of clinical depression.  There is an overwhelming need to run in depressed men, whereas women tend to shut down.  Mid-life depression brings on a whole other set of issues about facing life's failures, etc.  The problem with being depressed is most people don't even realize they are depressed until they are so far down the tunnel (at least that is how it was in my case and my H's case.)  Also spouses that live with depressed spouses are likely to become depressed themselves.  OCD is also an indicator of potetial to become depressed.  H had it all OCD a depressed spouse, a business failure and that was the perfect storm, throw in a OW who is needy, predatory and going through her own MLC and it is the perfect prescription for MLC. 

It is not until the MLC'er can admit that there is something wrong with them and not us can they begin to heal.

Sassy

[JAG]

I too think that MLC is depression gone real far! I think it occurs to men who feel that depression is for the weak and that they could never fall prey to such a thing....and, the suppression leads to MLC...at least that is what I see with my H.  I am certain that past childhood issues are a cause, but at the same time, the past ways of dealing with issues is not working and has made things worst (because they are no longer kids and running from their problems does not make them go away...mom and dad won't be there to save them this time).  The more they run the further in the tunnel they get....the deeper they go the more they have to "fix".  I know that my H has depression.  I know this not only because of the fact that he is running around Europe with another woman but because by his own admission, he is not sleeping well and, when he comes to see the kids, he has this look in his eyes....he is down in the dumps and traveling is just a form of keeping busy so he doesn't have to stop and think or feel....it is truly sad to watch one's loved one when they are in this state of mind....Man depression/MLC is an ugly beast!

[angelgirl]

I agree Sassyone and Jag. I had found a site that compared male and female reaction to severe depression. Although there are female MLCers, the risk is higher for men because typically they do not analyze and even realize they have depression. women, in general, are more likely to identify that they are feeling "blue" and are less likely to be embarrassed by it and seek help. Typical men don't know it's upon them, fail to identify it and then take risky and destructive behaviors to fix it. Certainly my H seemed to fit that list.

My H said he was frantic to stop feeling what he was feeling. He felt numb and trapped and over the years merely took evasive action to counter it. Instead of reflecting on this, it got worse and he steadily went off track. No outside source brought him out of it, even though latching onto OW, running away, switching religious, political beliefs, hobbies (and his entire SELF) was his way to "fix" himself. He says now that his "brain" is adjusted; that the connections have been "corrected." I don't know exactly what he means, but in severe depression the mind tries to rationalize the irrational. H said he also felt "detached" and he depersonalized loved ones in his life. He says he can't even recreate that feeling right now if he tried to.

H also says that in addition to addressing his personal issues he will try to identify well ahead of time if physiological depression is creeping in and take supplements/meds if he has to. So far H has had some personal and job related stress and has coped with these without the need of meds and has been remarkably "happy". In the 25 years I've known him, he has never reacted so positively. As I've posted elsewhere, H also avoids some medications (for other issues) that have depression as  a possible side effect.

I don't know all the answers, but my hope is that H's words gives insight to MLC/depression.


angelgirl
rebuilding

[LoveMeMyself]

Wow!!  this is a good topic.  I have also wondered and truly struggled with this factor.  My exH totally claims and uses depression as his excuse/reason for his actions.  He is on medicine for it again.  He has all the classic MLC signs/symptoms but refers to his depression as hereditary.  Even though I've brought up the fact that he's never experienced depression to this extreme that there must be another underlying reason......he still denies anything wrong other than just suffering from depression.  After his suicide attempt he was treated by some very good doctors.  He went through therapy.  He recent went back on medication due to more suicidal thoughts.  He now claims he will be on it forever.  He has stated he feels better but still has a long way to go.  It is very interesting to read all the thoughts concerning depression and MLC.  I recently expressed to my exH that depression is inward anger and that he holds everything in and doesn't express himself or face the issues within.  I don't know if he will think of what I said or not. 

[OnMyJourney]

Thank you angelgirl, Sassyone, Jag & LoveMyMan for your reponses. 

Interesting how some of your H's are in denial about depression and some acknowledge it and are/have been on ADs.

I'm interpreting most of your observations as MLC is depression at the severe end of the depression continuum.  Some also think that other issues are contributing.  Still trying to figure out why the term MLC is used rather than just depression?  And why not follow the advice for dealing with a depressive which can entail trying to help them see that they are depressed and it is not the R.

Some of you have had discussions with your MLCer about being depressed.  Has anyone felt that by bringing this up with their MLCer that it pushed them away even further? I mentioned it to my h in the weeks after BD & gave him a list comparing men's depression symptoms to women's.  He waved it off but kept the article in his truck for almost a year (probably forgot about it.)  A year ago he acknowledged he was depressed but I realize now that I was ill prepared in my depression knowledge to act on that comment. Darn! I sense that there are windows of opportunity when they are more open to hearing/acknowledging depression.

I want to broach the subject again with my h but afraid of pushing him away towards D. My IC says there is no right way to address it--you have to use your intuition and that one wrong action is not going to be the deciding factor for H.