[Standing Wife]

so... what if the MLCer believed his only option to leave was to move in with OW and OW was not even in the picture a couple of days prior to bomb drop (this is all confirmed and factual)...  H believed that the only way he could afford to leave was to find a "friend" that was willing to let him move in w/out needing to contribute one cent himself so that he could ocntinue to pat himself on the back for supporting his family......  IF this were the scenario then how would the LBS know when he has hit bottom?  Replay is suppose to be over and that means no OW in the picture ... how would you know if he had detatched from OW and was now treating OW like a room mate..  how would LBS know if H asks to return home that H is done with replay and not just cycling or goig to bounce back if h is still living in OW home as he feels that is the only option other than not be able to give LBS money to pay bills and such for her and kids....   my MLCer went to an older woman with money she was willing to and has spent freely on him... not the typical older MLCer and younger OW scenario where he gets his own place or moves into her place and started contributing there financially...........  homeless and on the street is a real rock bottom but I don't want to force him there if he has already hit bottom and is trying to end replay before that.. doing so may in his mind, force him to go back to  replay?

[StillStanding]

so... what if the MLCer believed his only option to leave was to move in with OW and OW was not even in the picture a couple of days prior to bomb drop (this is all confirmed and factual)...  H believed that the only way he could afford to leave was to find a "friend" that was willing to let him move in w/out needing to contribute one cent himself so that he could ocntinue to pat himself on the back for supporting his family......  IF this were the scenario then how would the LBS know when he has hit bottom?  Replay is suppose to be over and that means no OW in the picture ... how would you know if he had detatched from OW and was now treating OW like a room mate..

If OW is still a roommate, he's most likely still in replay. (And I would say that you have no way of knowing for sure that they are "just" roommates at this point...)

how would LBS know if H asks to return home that H is done with replay and not just cycling or goig to bounce back if h is still living in OW home as he feels that is the only option other than not be able to give LBS money to pay bills and such for her and kids....

If he's still figuring out how to run away from his life, then he hasn't hit rock bottom yet.

my MLCer went to an older woman with money she was willing to and has spent freely on him... not the typical older MLCer and younger OW scenario where he gets his own place or moves into her place and started contributing there financially...........

The younger woman is an MLC sterotype but not always the truth. There's another woman on here whose husband is involved with a much older woman.

homeless and on the street is a real rock bottom but I don't want to force him there if he has already hit bottom and is trying to end replay before that.. doing so may in his mind, force him to go back to  replay?

You can't "force" him into, or out of, replay; for better or for worse, you are along for the ride. About the only thing you can do to help him hit bottom faster is to remove yourself from the temptation of trying to fix him or help him, and focus on yourself.

[Standing Wife]

yeah.. I know there is nothing that i can do to fix any of it.. it's a sit back and watch him crash and burn....  but I also don't want to force him to stay in replay if he want out of replay or is out of replay and is trying to get to lim. / dep.   by making him think there is  no where else to go but to stay in replay and living with ow..  don't get me wrong, ow things he is there because he loves her and they have a real relationship   HAHAHAHAHA...  yeah, she's bpd 

but, I don't want to let him get a bunch of false starts either and drag me and the kids back onto the rollercoaster that we are decidedly off of right now

[StillStanding]

it's a sit back and watch him crash and burn....  but I also don't want to force him to stay in replay if he want out of replay or is out of replay and is trying to get to lim. / dep.   by making him think there is  no where else to go but to stay in replay and living with ow..

But that's the trick -- just as you can't force him out of replay, you can't force him to stay in replay. He will leave when he is ready to leave.

I get it; I'm in the same place. I want my wife to get through this so she can have a chance to come back to me. But as much as I hate all of this, I can't do anything to help it.

If you're worried about him having nowhere to go, just make sure you have boundaries set in case he wants to return.

[hurt01]

I was just going back and reading some of the older threads and was wondering. In one of RCR articles it says , if I remember correctly that OW can last through liminal deppression, but the relationship would change.

But then I read that OW has to be out of the picture and all replay is totaly gone.

Just making sure I understand .

[justasking]

RCR does say that the OW can stay until the end of withdrawal but has to be gone before acceptance.

As they change in depression and withdrawal the OW will notice changes as the MLCer reassesses his life and where he wants to go. They try and pull away from the OW and she will use all her manipulative will power to hang on to him. Even threats are used. This increases the pressure on the MLCer and his W looks increasingly the better option as she is strong, independent and causes him no grief.

The OW will feel that her time is slipping away. The MLCer may even change in his attitude to her i.e distant, angry and depressed.

It is at this time that the LBS must watch and wait. As the MLC er moves through withdrawal he will look for solid ground, to see whether the door is truly open for him and reach out for his spouse. At this time she is a guiding light as the MLC er is still making major decisions about his future.

There is still work to be done as he enters acceptance but the LBS will finally know what future the MLCer is looking for and OW disappears if she has hung on this long.

[StillStanding]

Not every situation is the same.

In most cases, the OP is a symptom of the Replay behavior, and that relationship will end when they start to transition.

But it is possible that someone can emerge from the tunnel and choose to remain with the OP.

[justasking]

Stillstanding is right each situation is different.

If the MLCer decides to dump the OW/OM it is one of the hardest things they will do on their journey at whatever stage it comes in.

[hurt01]

Thank you SS and JA,

I understand now. You have been a great help.

[HeartsBlessing]

RCR does say that the OW can stay until the end of withdrawal but has to be gone before acceptance.

I would respectfully have to agree to disagree with this assessment based on what I've seen.

It takes every bit of strength a MLC'er has to navigate through the Depression and Withdrawal stages.  OW/OM should be gone by then, as they should have been dumped when the MLC'er goes through the awakening process that comes toward the end of the Replay stage.

It seems to me that if OW/OM is still present; they would NOT have the strength to move forward, and would stay where they are...as OW/OM is a symptom of their issues, and must be worked through BEFORE they can move any farther forward.

The Awakening mini stage is a time where they begin to move forward; and realize they must do something or all is lost; so the affair is generally the first to go, then the Replay behaviors begin to cease, as they are moving toward and through the OW/OM Withdrawal process.

I saw this with my own two eyes, as my husband moved through these processes.

After OW/OM Withdrawal, they can literally fall down into the Depression Stage where, eventually, they DO bottom out, hitting hard and finding themselves with no other way to go but UP.

It can be ALSO during this time where they can commit suicide, because they think they can never fix the damage..they do see some of the damage they've done during this stage; MORE during the Withdrawal Stage..and ALL is seen during Acceptance.

I do realize not every MLC comes out the same way; but I also know what I've seen in quite a few cases over the years.   Now, there ARE seeds of each stage within the stages; and not to confuse you more....each of the six stages appear in each individual stage, mainly as small seeds.  These are needed to propel the MLC through each one.


I won't say that marrying OW/OM prevents them from moving forward IF they go on and marry them.  Not long ago, I remember my husband's friend(who'd gone on and married his OW) saying that he was beginning to make some better decisions in his life.  Things were taking a turn for the better with himself.  But, they were a LONG time coming, as he's been married to his OW for nearly 10 years or so.

Yet, I still see evidences of Replay within him; his clothing hasn't changed, and she dresses like a kid, too.
The comment was more directed at me, than my husband, as his friend remembered me talking to him so long ago; go figure on that.  I understood what he was talking about, my husband did not, and asked me about it....said it was strange.  I told his friend that was really good, keep going, he'd make it through.....I don't foresee him coming through for a long time, yet, but I couldn't tell him that.

I explained to my husband later, that his friend was going through his MLC...better termed as Middle Aged Crazies....my husband said he was glad he'd not done that, LOL!!!!

Like I said, my husband has forgotten ALL he went through, and I had to laugh, because I know better. 

My point of this story is, it seems to take the ones who have OWs/OMs and end up marrying them, a LOT longer to come through, than they might have, otherwise...and that's probably true.

On the OTHER hand, and this is based on something I was writing on another board tonight; IF the MLC'er comes through, having done NO kind of damage; such as having an affair, etc., and decides NOT to continue with the marriage, that is between them and God on that matter.

I had remembered being faced with the decision when it was my turn within the crucible...and I remember that clearly; I had to decide at that point whether I wanted to continue with the marriage or turn away from it.  After weighing the Pros and Cons, I decided to continue with what I had, and stay married.

I could have walked away at ANY time, but made a choice NOT to.  This was an individual choice; and my husband had NOTHING to do with it.

It was NOT a "right or wrong" choice, it just was....I had to make it before I moved forward within the tunnel....and it took me awhile, as I struggled with a reality that I'd seen before; questioning myself on the wisdom of that decision.

I wasn't doing anything wrong; this was a natural part of the tunnel, and I actually 'hid' from the question for as long as I possibly could..for what reason, I still don't know.

Maybe I was afraid that I was letting myself in for more grief, who knew?  But, in the end, I decided in favor of the marriage, and my husband never knew of the struggle I encountered making that decision.

The point here is this: if someone decides they don't want to be married any more as they come to a point of decision, that is their decision; nothing anyone can do to stop it...it is up to that individual.  God will deal as He sees fit with that person, if it is a wrong decision to make.

We can influence someone, but cannot make them decide in favor of the marriage if they truly don't want to continue.

Sorry, I hijacked.....again.