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Author Topic: MLC Monster Media articles on MLC, Standing, Infidelity II

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I own the house where we lived. I handled all the bills. I took care of the cooking, cleaning, tidying. I gave up my life in London and shipped all my stuff back to go live with him and start a life together! (not even 6 months before his crisis).

What did he invest? Nothing. He was just kind of there, floating along. He didn't make any sacrifices. Never helped in the house. Didn't even pick up after himself. Didn't make concrete plans for the future. Spent his time playing videogames, watching tv, sleeping... in total selfishness.

It was always all about him. Tbh now I don't understand if this is connected to MLC, or if he's just an immature boy who doesn't know what it means to take responsibility for his own life, let alone for others.

Dagolark -

I could have written every one of those words! This journey has helped me to see how little he was invested and now I want more.

I don't question MLC much anymore - yes my H has always been a bit emotionally immature but that is why we are here now. He has to learn how to grow up. One of the things that makes me so angry is that H will sacrifice things for the OW that he never did for me! What this has taught is that H is capable if he wants it - H is going to have to do a whole lot for me to consider a relationship with him again.
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We all do damage. Character is determined by how we repair it.


BD - December 2012
OW1 confirmed - December 2012 on-and-off for 34 months and counting (still refers to her as just a 'friend')
Wants to live like roommates - November 2013
I moved out - April 2015
H is still checking the anchor

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It makes me wonder whether I'm to blame for this. If I had demanded more... if I hadn't just taken care of everything... if I hadn't made everything so easy for him... if I'd put him in the position to have to make an effort, if I'd made him fight for things...

But on the other hand that feels so weird. A relationship shouldn't be about power games, right?
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Me: 26, Bf: 33, R: 9 years

BD 17 April 2014
OW confirmed 28 April 2014
Phone call: it's over, 3 June 2014
NC and doubt I'll ever hear from him again.

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It makes me wonder whether I'm to blame for this. If I had demanded more... if I hadn't just taken care of everything... if I hadn't made everything so easy for him... if I'd put him in the position to have to make an effort, if I'd made him fight for things...

But on the other hand that feels so weird. A relationship shouldn't be about power games, right?

I have had those thoughts too - we are not to blame for this. What if's do us no good. I did what I felt was right for my relationship at the time. I invested more than he did and because I love him unconditionally - I didn't see anything wrong with this. Our relationship was unbalanced - this was both of our doing but I didn't cause him to go off the MLC deep end. I see it for what it was now and I won't go there again.

I hope that my H can finally grow up and be a balanced person. It takes two balanced people to have a balanced relationship.
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We all do damage. Character is determined by how we repair it.


BD - December 2012
OW1 confirmed - December 2012 on-and-off for 34 months and counting (still refers to her as just a 'friend')
Wants to live like roommates - November 2013
I moved out - April 2015
H is still checking the anchor

S
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Quote
hen it comes to relationships, it's impossible to find someone capable of meeting all your needs or someone whose needs you can fully meet. You may love your mate and be content in the relationship, but we are two separate individuals making sacrifices and compromising to live life together. For many it's the fact they've given so much that makes them value their marriage.

If, however, we are under-invested, then we won't value the relationship to the same degree. With a lack of value comes a lack of motivation to protect and work through the difficulties of marriage.

This stood out to me, because omg, it's so true about my relationship.

I own the house where we lived. I handled all the bills. I took care of the cooking, cleaning, tidying. I gave up my life in London and shipped all my stuff back to go live with him and start a life together! (not even 6 months before his crisis).

What did he invest? Nothing. He was just kind of there, floating along. He didn't make any sacrifices. Never helped in the house. Didn't even pick up after himself. Didn't make concrete plans for the future. Spent his time playing videogames, watching tv, sleeping... in total selfishness.

It was always all about him. Tbh now I don't understand if this is connected to MLC, or if he's just an immature boy who doesn't know what it means to take responsibility for his own life, let alone for others.

I also took care of my sick grandma, sorted out the mess left behind by my junkie stepfather, handled my studies, my life alone in London... he couldn't even keep his papers in order, just lost them around the house. I can take responsibility for myself, and am now at the point where I'm strong and responsible enough to help others when they need. He never had to deal with a single thing in his life...

I think many people have this revelation.  Bit of a wake up call...  It really is true if you don't invest in something it's easier to walk away..  So sad really.  When we start a relationship we trust that we BOTH will invest in it...
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BD 18th Oct 2009
exH Left home 9th April 2011
Split with OW3 (fiance) Jan 2016. (no break between OWs).

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http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=483.90

I was reading the thread of Stayed H's letter and on this page they are discussing the very same thing. Ha.

Well, I guess being an independent woman used to live on her own and sort everything out for herself didn't pair well with an italian boy who's always been living with mommy until he moved in with me...

And of course now he's back at mommy's, who cooks and cleans and irons and changes the bedsheets for him (like he expected me to do for him), so I doubt he'll notice what he'd been taking for granted... because mommy will keep providing it to him till he's fricking 40 years old.

Ugh. No more boys living with mommy, I SWEAR.
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Me: 26, Bf: 33, R: 9 years

BD 17 April 2014
OW confirmed 28 April 2014
Phone call: it's over, 3 June 2014
NC and doubt I'll ever hear from him again.

S
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who cooks and cleans and irons and changes the bedsheets for him (like he expected me to do for him),

Was this a stated expectation from him. Did he actually ever say " I expect you to cook, clean, iron and change the bedsheets/"
 or did you just do it because as an enabler it's what you expected of yourself and you put that expectation in his mind.
We've all been there but I did leave my first H when he continued to moan that despite my working a full time job, he did expect dinner to be cooked by me and ready by 6pm.  That wasn't the only reason we broke up (I was 24 at the time and he was 32) but it dawned on me that he was expecting me to be like his mother.

However did I learn from that?  Heck no -  not until 26 yrs later when BD happened and then cooking, washing, changing bed linen etc went out of the window. Those were tasks I willingly took on because I thought that was what you were supposed to do and I was the world's best enabler.
 Now I think differently. H still in the home but does his own washing, cooking etc....
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BD march 2013
Stay at home MLCer
OW for 3.5 years - finishing Autumn 2016
Reconnection started 2017.
Separated 2022 (my choice because he wanted to live alone) and yet fully reconnected seeing each other often.

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(I'm sorry dear, I went on a bit of a ramble because... well, I'm a chatty person and I'm doing some serious analyzing of the relationship these days... sorry!)

Well, not as explicitly as a friend of mine was told by her boyfriend - "Well my mother did it for me so now you have to do it" (he's from Southern Italy and they're even more traditional in that sense). [He made her miserable for a long time, they broke up and she came to London, eventually he came crawling back and now they're living in London, pretty happily from what I can tell!]

But we kind of had this agreement that since I work from home and he's away all day, I would take care of the house and in exchange he would pay a slightly bigger share of common expenses. To be honest I don't think we ever sat down and actually verbalized it in these terms, but we did drop a few comments to that extent. It actually did seem fair to me, to be honest? I knew how to do that stuff after all, and he took care of the bigger things - like he's built all the IKEA furniture we bought, installed the dishwasher and boiler, changed the ceiling lamps, sinks, etc... because that's his skill and not mine. I honestly thought it was a fair split of responsibilities? I wasn't resentful (for now at least....) I was happy to do it.

And yet at times it felt like living with a frickin teenager... like, he would always leave all of his shoes by the kitchen table when he took them off instead of putting them in the shoerack literally two steps away. I asked him to please sort it out and he would say yes and then avoid doing it... just like a teenager, lol! Eventually he did it, or I took them and placed them in the middle of the hallway so after stepping over them five times he would eventually put them away. Lately I had given up and just picked them up myself because tbh I didn't much care anymore, it just took me a second anyway.... but that is not the behavior of an adult. It's a teenager.

(Esp. considering he spent his time listening to loud music and playing videogames and barely even bothered to talk to me lately. I had been telling him, previous to BD, that I felt like we communicated more when I was in London than now that we shared a house - at least back then when we skyped for an hour I had his whole attention and he actually talked to me, when I was home for a few weeks it wasn't 'everyday life routine'...)

Same for his work boots - there was a pair lying in a corner in the living room for months. When I asked whether they were going to stay there forever, he just made a funny joke and carried on doing whatever. Eventually when he was carrying some stuff to the garage I added the shoes to the pile and they were finally gone  ;)

Or another classic... his clothes. The wardrobe is apparently a foreign concept, he just piles everything up on a chair or on the floor. It's a bit of a habit of mine too, tbh, so at some point I would just say 'let's sort out our chairs, shall we?' and we would do it together.

I'm trying to think of how things went during the few months he lived there alone before I joined him (he'd been nagging since he was in his 20s about wanting to move out but moaning he couldn't afford it and had to wait till we moved in together. (Now mind you, he actually COULD afford it, it's just a hassle...) So eventually I offered him to stay for free at my house since we were going to be there together soon anyway, so he could save on rent. But anyway... he did do the washing and hang things out to dry (he needed those clothes for his work after all!) and very precisely and diligently, as always when he does something (he's an electrician and plumber so he's meticulous). He did pile up dishes in the sink till it exploded but then was very precise in using the dishwasher. But he wasn't big on taking out the trash (a million beer bottles accumulated...), sweeping, cleaning the counters, or god forbid the bathroom (when he was working at the coal plant everything turned black with coal dust.) I had suggested he hire for an hour or two the lady that helps my grandma with the cleaning, but he never got around to it (too much hassle) so occasionally his mom popped over and cleaned the place. They also invited him to dinner twice a week or so. She ironed his clothes and gave them back to him.

It's quite clear he was doing just the bare minimum and once I arrived, it quickly vanished... lol.

He has, after all, lived with mum until he was 30/31, a stay-at home mum... she did pick up after him but after her depression a few years back she's become very disorganized and a bit of a hoarder. Her room and the room where Ex and his sister grew up are literally invaded by clothes, piled up all over the place. And there are big closets, but I have no idea if they are empty or filled with even more unused clothes, because they are blocked by the piles?

Funnily enough, after BD (but before I learned about OW) I talked to him and he was saying he'd been asking about some houses, they were like 350€ a month, interesting, and one of them was this big and in that place and the guy might want to sell it too... and inside my head I was thinking: so a year ago you couldn't afford to rent your own place, but now you magically can and you can also buy a house all of a sudden? O.o And the next time I spoke with him instead, when I asked him how he was, he said: 'well I have the prospect of furnishing my own house and that cheers me up... but all the houses I've seen are so expensive, like 350€, no way I can afford them:(!'........................ so.... you WANT to have your own house but in front of the practical reality of it, you're already backing off? Tbh I'm curious to know whether he will actually go through with it or not... it was easy to move into my place, no contracts, no dealing with the bills and the contracts for those, no rent...

(He really cannot deal with any hassle at all. His old boss still owes him about 5K € and he hasn't done anything to try and get it back, even tho he really just needs to go speak to the worker's union and let them handle it. He sends his dad to handle things when need be. How sad is that?)

And the buying a house thing, that's a big issue too, because you see, he's the male son. Both him and his father kept saying that it was important for him to own a house. We were talking of maybe buying a house together (I have some money stashed away for that purpose from when my dad passed away) and he was saying stuff that made no sense, like he wanted to own a property on his own, maybe he could buy an apartment and rent it out and I could buy the house where we would live... O.o? And funnily enough, his sister is living in a house owned by the husband, she's unemployed and she and the baby are supported by the husband, but nobody is telling her she needs to own a property... ah, Italy!


....to be honest I don't really know where I'm going with all this, lol, I'm just thinking out loud I guess. I'm not sure how it works that this kind of stuff pushes a guy to have an affair? More like, perhaps it highlights a character flaw that is compatible with having affairs?
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Me: 26, Bf: 33, R: 9 years

BD 17 April 2014
OW confirmed 28 April 2014
Phone call: it's over, 3 June 2014
NC and doubt I'll ever hear from him again.

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Great article on cheating
#67: May 30, 2014, 08:19:37 PM
http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2013/01/man-cheats-infidelity-why-reasons.html

I'm pasting the bits that are relevant to us, but there's more reasons listed...


Three Stages of Love

Eros Love (Romantic Love)

This is the stage of love often referred to as "in love." This is the stage when the human brain is actually producing a chemical effect that's akin to drug addiction. The chemicals produced are dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin (the 3 that produce the "high"), oxytocin and vasopressin (the two "bonding" chemicals), nerve growth factor (the "attachment"), testosterone and estrogen (the "hormones").

And here's an interesting tidbit, ladies. (And it's also the reason that "no contact" is incredibly valuable to women in particular.) Did you know that the events occurring in the brain when we are in love have similarities with mental illness? Did you know that the effects of serotonin on the brain have a similar chemical appearance to the mental illness known as obsessive-compulsive disorder? And did you know that the brain only produces these chemicals for an average of two years in both males and females?

Can anyone say "infatuation?"

Philos Love (Child Rearing/Friendship Love)

This is the "settling in" stage of love when romance tends to take a back seat and child rearing, family and friendship between the couple tends to take a front seat.

This is also the stage when cheating has the highest rate of occurrence. The brain is no longer producing the chemicals referenced above and the woman has had her attention diverted from the man - to her newborn children who have a much higher need for her love, attention and affection. If there are no children produced from the relationship, fractures can easily happen during this stage because there's no assistance with the chemical production produced during the romantic stage, referenced above.

Can anyone say, "in a rut?"

Agape (Unconditional/Companion Love)

Once a couple reaches this stage, they're generally out of the woods, so-to-speak. They love each other unconditionally, warts and all. They are getting ready to enjoy their golden years and are looking forward to growing old together, settling into retirement and welcoming grandchildren into their lives.

Can anyone say, "happily ever after?"

...

Why A Man Cheats

He's Insecure

If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times - insecure men cheat. They just do; whether they love you or not has absolutely nothing to do with it. As a matter of fact, research suggests that most men who cheat claim they still love the woman in their life. And that's because insecurity is a "me" issue, not a "we" issue.

When someone secretly doesn't feel good about themselves, they seek out activities that remedy this. And nothing remedies ill feelings about yourself faster than the attentions and affections of a new lover. Additionally, folks who are insecure are generally equally selfish. As a result, they don't think about "others," they think about "self." Add to that the fact that they tend to focus on "rewards" versus "consequences."

It's a recipe for disaster.

And it's one of the main reason that I warn women dealing with insecure men to really think long and hard about what you're signing on for there. On top of what's referenced above, insecure men tend to enjoy tinkering with the heads and emotions of the woman in their life. They're not good communicators and, as a result, they won't sit down to talk. Instead, they'll pull pranks and play silly "push your button" games. Why? To get a reaction from you. Because if you didn't care, you wouldn't react. So when an insecure man wants reassured that his partner still cares, he won't ask her. Instead, he'll pull a prank that hurts her and then he'll sit back and watch her reaction. Insecure men/women will suck the life out of you and exhaust you - FAST.

Interesting fact: Only 12% of men feel the woman they cheated with was more attractive than their partner.

...

He's Trying to "Fix" Things

I know. You just read that and said, "Huh?" Let me explain. Men can fix a car, a broken railing, a crack in the sidewalk. But when it comes to their relationships and their emotions, they can't easily fix themselves. As a result, many tend to hang on to what does work, what doesn't need fixed (which may be the wife or girlfriend) and simply resort to plugging the holes they feel inside themselves with extracurricular activities outside of the marriage - to make themselves feel whole again.

Men feel entitled to "have it all." As a result, many will attempt to do just that - take on a mistress to make the longing subside and then live happily ever after, having it all - with their wife AND their mistress.

What better way to feel fulfilled, content and "fixed" - without ever having to confront the real issues?

Interesting fact: 48% of men state emotional dissatisfaction as the cause of their cheating.

...

Noticing a Theme Here?


In just about every single one of the scenarios above, notice that none of them were a direct reflection on the woman. Notice that just about every single one of them is a reflection on the man. Even in the scenario where a man might be hurt by the woman for one reason or another, it's still his CHOICE to conduct an affair rather than WORK out the issues.

“I'm going to take the high road because the low road is so crowded.” ~ Mia Farrow

Cheating is a choice, folks.

And when men decide to cheat, they make those choices based on what's going on inside of THEM - not based on what the woman is or isn't doing. Sure, they use the behavior of the woman as an excuse or justification for their behavior, but the simple fact of the matter is that most men use cheating as a means of coping. Coping with stress, anxiety, dissatisfaction, unhappiness, past traumas and childhood experiences and self esteem issues. Cheating occurrences for reasons of sex alone are actually very low.

Interesting fact: Only 8% of men who cheat claim sexual dissatisfaction as the reason.

Much like folks use alcohol, tobacco, drugs and gambling as coping mechanisms, many men also choose to use cheating much the same. "If I just do this, then I'll forget about all of that and this will go away."

But the reality appears to be that it boils down to choice and an inability to cope, emotionally, with issues of success, dissatisfaction, past experience, peer pressure, temptation, relationship problems and feelings of self worth.

Now this may sound sexist and I understand why. But realize that what I'm about to say isn't based on my past experiences, it's based on the insights contained in the statistics and the psychology behind what motivates men to cheat versus what motivates women to cheat. Which I believe reveals that when you have a man that's cheating, you appear to have a broken man. Whereas, when you have a woman that's cheating, you appear to have an unloved, neglected woman.

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« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 06:08:49 PM by Anjae »
Me: 26, Bf: 33, R: 9 years

BD 17 April 2014
OW confirmed 28 April 2014
Phone call: it's over, 3 June 2014
NC and doubt I'll ever hear from him again.

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Re: Great article on cheating
#68: May 30, 2014, 08:23:02 PM
You quoted from the article

Quote
Whereas, when you have a woman that's cheating, you appear to have an unloved, neglected woman

I think that the LBS men on this site would find the above comment to be grossly untrue. MLC trumps this type of generalization.
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"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

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Re: Great article on cheating
#69: May 30, 2014, 08:34:09 PM
Yeah, you're absolutely right. I actually hadn't really noticed that bit - I just copied the whole paragraph. I think pretty much all of this article could apply for both genders, even though the author wrote it about men. Obviously I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't really believe there is a marked difference between 'this is how MEN work' and 'this is how WOMEN work'. I think the same dynamics can apply to all humans regardless of gender.
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Me: 26, Bf: 33, R: 9 years

BD 17 April 2014
OW confirmed 28 April 2014
Phone call: it's over, 3 June 2014
NC and doubt I'll ever hear from him again.

 

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