[toughtimes]

Hi there,

As mum to D3 and S8 and LBS since May 2012 I am happy to say that my children are doing okay. I have been very sad but I put on a happy mask for my children everyday and now I don't need the mask anymore and I wear a very happy smile and laugh loads with my kids regardless of what is happening with my MLCer.

What I wanted to do was to collect some resources of information about divorce, separation and the effects on children. Everything I read in the press seems to accept this is part of life and that so long as you make sure you divorce happily and amicably the kids will be fine. A mediator stated to my H and I that the research shows that it is not divorce that is damaging to children but the conflict between parents upon divorce.

I have to say that in my experience of being married to a man for 14 years, whose parents divorced when he was 15 without any overt conflict, I absolutely have to say that it IS the divorce that devastates. Divorce does impact hugely on the kids ... I want to read that in black and white rather than rely on my observations and conversations with adults who have been through it.

With my S8 I see an increased anxiety, my D3 is very clingy. But generally they are accepting the situation, even embracing it! Which I find bizarre tbh. My S8 talks about his grandparents being divorced and living with new partners and so it is being presented to them as normal that their Dad has left their mum and is now in love with someone new.

I am sure there will be more difficulties ahead but so far the kids are dealing with it okay I think.

I wonder what others experiences are?

Here are some links I have found on the subject, a major report was published here in the UK in June this year which talks about the tsunami of divorce .. it is hard hitting:

http://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/UserStorage/pdf/Pdf%20reports/CSJ_Fractured_Families_Report_WEB_13.06.13.pdf

This article is about the BBC documentary aired here in the UK it's a good summary of the interviews with young people of divorced parents.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2411830/What-divorce-really-does-children--shattering-words-If-youre-divorced-thinking-testimony-shake-core.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2357192/Divorce-The-terrible-toll-making-divorce-easier-Children-likely-violent-drugs-underage-sex.html

And finally an article that tells us:

For the parent who divorces with a child, the priority is establishing a sense of family order and predictability. This means observing the three R's required to restore a child's trust in security, familiarity, and dependency - Routines, Rituals, and Reassurance.

Thus parents establish household and visitation Routines so the child knows what to expect. They allow the child to create Rituals to feel more in control of her life. And they provide continual Reassurance that the parents are as lovingly connected to the child as ever, and are committed to the making this new family arrangement work.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/surviving-your-childs-adolescence/201112/the-impact-divorce-young-children-and-adolescents

This is what I have tried to do since MLC struck. And I think it has paid off, the kids are okay so far. H thinks he is super dad and has been instrumental in the children's smooth transition ... after all he has saved us all from this abusive, toxic atmosphere we were all painfully exposed to  (That's the MLC rewriting of history part that isn't covered in any of these articles!  )

Any ideas, thoughts, articles, research etc... would be avidly read by me, I really want to do my very best for my children despite these horrid circumstances.

[in it]

THANK YOU!!!!

An amazing amount of time goes into the research you did! I REALLY feel these kids bear the brunt of all of this...it's hard to put on a "happy face" and fake it. I admire you for being able to do that in the face of all this.

 I know I was NOT capable of doing it. I wish I had a second chance at that but I really needed to enforce NO CONTACT in order to have done it.

[toughtimes]

Hi in it, I have to say that I haven't always been able to hide my pain. Looking after the children on my own is tiring and when he first left it was frightening. One of the things I could never get my head around when I double checked I had locked the doors at night was how any man could leave his family so vulnerable, so exposed? but alas, they do it all the time. So many of my S8s class mates have been abandoned by their fathers, sorry if I am not mentioning mothers abandoning, I know that they do. I suppose I am surrounded by women who have been left.

I have cried in front of the children at times which I actually think is normal and healthy tbh. I am honest and say that I feel sad that Daddy has gone or that I am very tired and that can make me sad, which it really can!

I think dealing with MLC is a much bigger deal than a normal situation of father leaving though. The pain for the LBS is enhanced because of the blaming and projection not to mention the denial. So I too have gone NC as far as I can with children. I never contact him unless it's absolutely necessary and when he comes and picks up the kids we don't really speak to one another other than my breezy hello, etc. H has been openly rude, ignorant and bullyish to me in front of the kids and I have just maintained a calm response everytime. As soon as he left after BD something swept over me, I became utterly calm when he talked to me. It was automatic and almost a kind of "there is no use arguing, there is no use fighting he has gone." So I think that has helped the children, I haven't had the locks changed like many people said I should, I haven't denied him entry or discussed anything in front of the children. He has said some inappropriate and unpleasant things which the children have overheard and my son in particular has become upset and frightened but i have supported him and cared for him. Much of what we do as parents is damage limitation and if you felt it was necessary to go NC then that is the best decision for you and your children. I know that you experienced some major monster outbursts and so protecting your child from those is essential. We need to model to our children that under no circumstances is it okay to put up with that from another person.

Both come into bed with me, this ties in with the regression that the article from Psychology Today refers to. Most of my friends who have had partners leave have said one or all their kids started sleeping with them. I have been told by H that it needs to stop but I have calmly said that I will not turn the children away or make them feel in any way abandoned, I am here to ensure they feel safe and secure as much as possible. I asked my S8 yesterday why he wanted to sleep with me and not in his new room and he said "because it makes me feel safe." .... That says it all.

[R]

Wow toughtimes, this is brilliant.   

I so wish we could share this information with MLCers, although it won't do any good, I realise that.  But to me, it just reinforces what i thought.  I have tried to explain to H (before being on this site) the effects and he thought that was just tall stories from others, despite the fact my parents divorced at 15 and his parents are still married after 42 years. 

I have cried in front of the children at times which I actually think is normal and healthy tbh. I am honest and say that I feel sad that Daddy has gone or that I am very tired and that can make me sad, which it really can!

I agree and to an extent, it also allows my Ds to do the same.

For the parent who divorces with a child, the priority is establishing a sense of family order and predictability. This means observing the three R's required to restore a child's trust in security, familiarity, and dependency - Routines, Rituals, and Reassurance.

Thus parents establish household and visitation Routines so the child knows what to expect. They allow the child to create Rituals to feel more in control of her life. And they provide continual Reassurance that the parents are as lovingly connected to the child as ever, and are committed to the making this new family arrangement work.

This jumped out at me because this is what has been more overriding desire to achieve.  D12 loves a good rule and boundary; it makes her feel safe and security so any instability leads to such anxiety within her, but trying to get this across to H is so hard.

Once again, thanks Toughtimes, this thread is going to be so useful.
xxx

[Beautiful Heart]

WOW TT...good for you!

You should be very proud of yourself! As in it says, and is right,...an amazing amount of work goes into this research, and you did it all for the love that you have for your babies. Not to mention, you did to help others here too! I agree with you it's the DIVORCE that devastates our children's hearts.

I can speak form experience. My parents divorced when I was 5, B6 & S3. My dad was a WAlk away. I remember him thinking he was so cool. Living with OW, (several) and just doing crazy crap! I hating going to stay with him. The worse thing was, the questioning when we returned from our weekend with dad. The fighting back and forth between the families was unbearable for us kids. Unfortunately, my B52, still feels the scars of the D. He still speaks to my mom of his horrible memories, the divorce, and how he always hoped his mom & dad would get back TOGETHER. I know now how my mom must have felt, he H just walked away, she had 3 little babies to care for, on her own. She is the strongest woman I know! She is wonderful, she is my MOM!

My mom remarried a wonderful man, my step dad. He raised us 3 kids as his own, he was 21 years old when he met my mom, we had a wonderful life. They have been married for 45 years now!
As for my dad, I got to know him well in my adult life, he was a very kind, funny and gentle man. I forgave him, and love him. About 1 month before his unexpected passing he expressed how sorry he was for how he treated his kids, and my mom. My dad NEVER FORGAVE himself, and now he is gone.

TT, IMO you are doing great! You love your kids, and it shows, they will always know this and they will trust in you, and know they are safe with you. this is BIG! Keep up the good work!

Beautiful Heart~

[in it]

Hi in it, I have to say that I haven't always been able to hide my pain. Looking after the children on my own is tiring and when he first left it was frightening. One of the things I could never get my head around when I double checked I had locked the doors at night was how any man could leave his family so vulnerable, so exposed? but alas, they do it all the time. So many of my S8s class mates have been abandoned by their fathers, sorry if I am not mentioning mothers abandoning, I know that they do. I suppose I am surrounded by women who have been left.

When he kicked me out and got the divorce I felt the same way scared and just devastated I always felt somewhat "safer" from the outside world if he was there.

I remember my legs being so stiff from fear when I woke up in the mornings I could barely walk. I prayed every night I prayed for 2 hours and 1 hour after I woke up I'd lay in bed and pray.

Both come into bed with me, this ties in with the regression that the article from Psychology Today refers to. Most of my friends who have had partners leave have said one or all their kids started sleeping with them. I have been told by H that it needs to stop but I have calmly said that I will not turn the children away or make them feel in any way abandoned, I am here to ensure they feel safe and secure as much as possible. I asked my S8 yesterday why he wanted to sleep with me and not in his new room and he said "because it makes me feel safe.

GOOD there's always been a stigma on a "family bed" per se but my D20 (who was 17 at the time) slept with me the whole time he was dragging everybody through the destruction of the family. We'd lay there all night and talk and cry and I'd rub her back and try to assure her everything was going to be OK.

 But that didn't happen ... I went back with them....he kicked me out again 4 months ago..assaulted me and gave me a dismissed order of protection against the kids. I haven't even talked to the kids yet; one email that's about it. They are with him.

You do whatever you can to give comfort to the kids YOU ARE AN EXCELLENT MOTHER!

I'm not afraid of much anymore since this happened I enjoy living by myself. Whatever the kids decide to do whenever...they do.

 I've had to make a lot of decisions and not include them in my plans which makes me very, very, sad but I couldn't wait around  for them to figure themselves out.

They have missed a lot seeing what a woman is capable of in regards to picking up pieces of a mess I didn't make. But things are just fine.

[Snowdrop]

As soon as he left after BD something swept over me, I became utterly calm when he talked to me. It was automatic and almost a kind of "there is no use arguing, there is no use fighting he has gone.

I did the same thing, which was totally opposite to how I was for over 20yrs with H.  Something just happens doesn't it. 

I feel that we can't even go the route of looking at our situation like a "normal divorce", because it isn't.  Good that our kids are older, 11 and 15, and have seen H for themselves, and live the fact that the dad who called them daily when he was away, has now been gone for over a year, and ignores them as if they don't exist.  There is no visitation, except the twice or so he wanted to see them and get some of his stuff.  He recently emailed twice to indicate that while he was within driving distance, he wasn't going to see them , and then another saying can't see them this time, but mentioned a date "he would like to meet with them" .

Took kids to see psychologist just to see if we were on track, and ends up we are, thankfully.  I think that might be from discussing things as they happen, and being real and upfront, and never hiding things.  As well, we have no other family members, so the kids have only really had me and their dad, and been that way all their lives, and with him working away, I've been the one in their lives.  I've always been real with them, and they trust me 100%, so when I say dad left because of dad, and not us, they believe me.

H has shown such despicable behaviour towards us all, that in some ways, it has helped the kids detach.  They didn't have a choice.  We all wish it had never happened, but no-one wants to be around the man he has become.  Him getting married helped tremendously .  Not sure how we would be if he was a clinger, really don't.

As awful as his actions have been, in a way, they have also helped.  It is so much easier to detach from someone acting like he has, and a man who was close to us, that ran away to live a life where no-one knows him, literally.

A lady psychologist called recently to check in on things, and as I mentioned on here a few weeks back, her parting words were that as long as mom is okay, the kids are okay.

This MLC experience is dreadful, and the craziness of it all, adds to the pain.  I think we just have to find what works for us, and go with it, and bounce things off other LBSs on this board if we need to.  No-one else understands or can relate.  I would feel that all we can do is be there for the kids, and take it day by day.

I refuse to let this destroy our children.  If H wants this, then he can have it, and go away and live his life.  The damage he has done cannot be repaired, especially what he did to the kids, but we are all better than that, and he cannot determine our future.  He's doing a pretty good job of making sure we go without, ie money, etc., but overall, he can't destroy our spirit.  We are so much happier than he will ever be.  I'm thankful that we are able to enjoy being with each other, and laugh every day, even when there's good reason to not.  The kids and I are quite happy, except for when he is in touch.

[Magnite38]

My children have seemed to adapt to this change surprisingly well.  I hid a lot of my initial emotions from them and tried to keep the 3 Rs in our life and family helped a lot.  Lately with the money issues coming up the kids hear and see this and I have to learn to address this with them without making them worry.  The kids need to hear some truth but they also need to be carefree and without the adult stresses.

I have no idea how the baby will fair in the end.  H has never given her the time of day and still has not taken her out.  The two older children  7 and 10 enjoy their time with h, this is time h never gave them while he was home, i guess it can be seen as a positive. The kids know I am their everything and dad is just fun and not really active in their lives.

Snowdrop total agree... If mom is okay, kids will be okay.  My kids feed off my emotions and the money has stressed me out, kids see that and react.


I really wish the kids could keep their home and stay at their school but h is making this difficult for us.  This might have a negative impact on the kids. I am trying to keep the idea of a move a fun thing and will involve them in the decisions. 

I try to keep my emotions in check around the kids and explain things in a simplistic way.  I will give them the facts but always reassure them.  The kids need to know things and not kept in the dark.  My S10 seems to get stuff but D7 is a bit more confused.  This is not easy stuff knowing what is too much for them to know.  Right now I am following their lead and going from there.  As they get older their understanding will change and hopefully I can explain and help these kids to become healthy well adjusted adults with little FOO issues.

I have had it out with h a few times while the kids where around, in another room.  I have had to explain to the kids why mommy was upset with dad.  They seem to get this but now that I am healed no more confrontations with h.  I will try to keep the stress levels of the kids as low as possible.

Thanks TT for the links...I will have to do some reading.  I have to attend a parenting after divorce class next weekend.  Maybe learn something.

[Slow Fade]

Most of my friends who have had partners leave have said one or all their kids started sleeping with them

My S10 has been insistent that I sleep with him. Usually I just lie with him until he falls asleep then I go to my room. Sometimes if he wakes in the night, he calls for me or comes into my room and I don't discourage it. He needs security.

With my S8 I see an increased anxiety, my D3 is very clingy. But generally they are accepting the situation, even embracing it!

My S10 is doing this too. Accepting of the situation, but I see the anxiety and clinginess. The one thing he does NOT tolerate is another person in the mix. When H tried to introduce ow to S10, S10 went ballistic. He did the same thing when I had dinner with a male friend, even though he knew this person and there is no romantic interest at all.....

I have tried to explain to H (before being on this site) the effects and he thought that was just tall stories from others, despite the fact my parents divorced at 15 and his parents are still married after 42 yea

The problem is that for every article we can find supporting the destruction divorce does to children, our H's could find one saying that it doesn't. I do believe that it is horribly destructive to children for their parents to divorce. The selfishness of society in this day just wants to turn a blind eye to it in order to have permission to be narcissistic.....

[Snowdrop]

I have to attend a parenting after divorce class next weekend.  Maybe learn something.

As much as I dreaded going to the one I had to attend, I actually found it quite interesting.  Nothing new, but good to hear reminders.  Out of the whole room, there was only one other lady and myself who had children ignored by their fathers.  Sad though that they had to speak of avoiding conflict when possible, and maybe don't come into the house to get the kids, etc., meet them outside. 

Interesting to hear other people's stories, and lots of  as you want to slide in your seat after hearing some people who are so aggressive and angry. 

In the one I went to, they played some short videos of children being interviewed, and I sobbed and cried huge tears, you know the ones that won't stop, and roll down your face like when you were 6 years old - sadly, like our kids have done recently.  Only one in the room, front row, and bawling.  It was so, so sad to watch, and just triggered something in me when I saw their pain.  Had to go to the front row as I started at the back, then some guy came and sat by me who'd fallen into his aftershave bottle

Wondering if you too will get the "perfect guy" in the room, who always answered with how great and fair he is being, and how he's always considering the kids, etc., but you can feel underneath what he is saying, and sense he is a bit of an a$$.  Who knows eh?  Obviously I'm not the best judge of character lately when it comes to men

The one I went to was 9 to 4, but they cut short the breaks so we could leave early.  I actually enjoyed it, especially after dreading it for so long.  Such a full course we have to wait months here for a spot, and without it, a court can refuse to hear your case.  Hope you "enjoy" it too.  Amazes me how out of the two of us, H can be exempt from attending due to where he lives , and he's the one who really should have gone. Oh well.  It wouldn't make a difference anyway.  As I sat there, I thought of him when they mentioned some spouses keeping their kids away from their dad, and he's tried that line with his lawyer.  I thought how he would only hear that out of everything said in the course, and hang onto it.