[Ready2Transform]

Ready2 I would laugh at your 32 supplements but immediately after BD a friend gave me a sample bottle of a supplement she was selling that had a lot of Tumeric in it and I didn't go into my usual 10 year pine away abandonment death spiral.  I couldn't afford to buy any more of it and I didn't plummet but one has to wonder....

Hehehe...seriously, I saw this earlier and it really hits home:



And Turmeric - 500mg, $6 at Walmart (noticed last time I was there): http://www.walmart.com/ip/Spring-Valley-90-Capsules-500-mg-Ea.-Turmeric-Herbal-Supplement-90-ct/11047686

My entire huge ensemble of pills costs less per month than probably one pharmaceutical equivalent of any of them.

[Still Kicking]

So I wonder if I was stronger emotionally and able to communicate better whether it would help my chances for reconciliation? But then he came for Xmas and Easter and I was lovely and kind and made meals and we went for a walk as a family and he was just so unhappy and tired and didn't want to be around me. So I guess I have tried everything and nothing works!

I would look at that more as a reflection on the state of your MLCer rather than a lack of anything on your part.   I don't think you should have to communicate if it hurts you, other than for children or finances or what is necessary.   I'm thinking more in terms of say, I didn't truck all his stuff over to the OWs and throw it on her lawn like I had wanted to.  One may not be able to communicate if they won't let us but we don't have to blow up any chances of ever wanting to communicate again--unless that is what we want.  But I agree with what you say.  One size may not fit all.

[kikki]

What I see is that if someone does say something worked for them then it can cause pain in someone else as if it is an accusation that they didn't do something they could have done.  It brings on a defensive stance.  And most on here are so aware of the pain that they don't want to add to it.

SK, this is very true.  This whole thing is a constant dance - but I would agree - for any of you wonderful people who have reconciled out there - while we are really really keen to hear about it, and what you felt made a difference for you in your situations - if there is even so much of a hint of school marmish 'this is how it should be done - it worked for me, so if only you would do this, it would work for you too', then it stings like an electric shock, because we may have already have tried it earlier on numerous occasions, and for us, it may not have worked - or worse - backfired completely - and enraging monster and we are still trying to pay off the legal costs because of it.

I agree that many MCLers are are in a place that no one but a higher being can reach.  But it shouldn't keep us from discussing the less extreme cases where actions might have an effect--even if those actions can't affect the tunnel progress but just lead to better communication.   If someone had a reconciliation than they deserve a bit of credibility even if what they did might not work for most.  It deserves examination even if it happened in spite of what they think they did.  Even if it only helps one person to discover a key to their particular situation then the sharing would have been worth it.  We all just have to be careful not to take it as a personal failure if we don't get the same results.

Yes, yes and yes again. 
I do believe that there does need to be an acknowledgement that there are MLCers on the board who range from mild to extreme in their crisis (having witnessed one of each in my H - the second one being more akin to a character in a horror movie), their behaviours and the damage that they are doing to their families.  To gloss over this can lead to hurt on both sides of the LBS spectrum.

  Love that Medicine synopsis Ready2 

[Anjae]

But I have nothing against things that work even if they are different from what is normally said here. I’m even one who has different view from what is (or was) standard in the board. I do not think MLC is just a FOO/development/identity thing, I think there are other things at stake. That goes “against” RCR basic ideas, yet, she was open enough to allow me to express my views and I often talk about in on threads, even newbies ones.

You know one person whose husband is in MLC and therapy is working. Excellent. Most here who tried were not so lucky. What should be said to newbies? That in most cases MC does not work with and MLCer, or that in most cases MC works with and MLCer? We say that in most cases it does not work, we don’t say it never works.

When newbies say they want to give it a try at MC, we say go for it, but if it does not work, don’t beat yourself up because in most cases it does not.

Don’t think that makes us close to new ideas…

Debating possible ways of mitigating a MLC is different from controlling the trip.

You have agreed to divorce your husband, detached, gave him time. So have many others here have. Why did it work for you and not for others? 

Maybe because not all MLCers are alike and some crisis take longer than others.

Why don’t we have more reconciliations? The board is not that old, most MLCs take a long time. Many LBS give up or move forward. Also, there are people who reconcile but do not return to post about it.

Why do you think it is? Because the advice is bad? Is it better in other boards devoted to real MLC (again, many blogs, articles, boards, call MLC to midlife transition)? Is the success rate of a board as new as this higher? What do you suggest that is changed and how is that going to affect the outcome?

RCR thinks that the MLCer has to live the crisis to the end and nothing can be done. She got her husband, and marriage, back. How do you explain that? We have you (and me and a few others) who thing something can be done. Not all of us who think that way have our spouses back. We have RCR and others who think it is a developmental issue and it must run its course. Some of those have their spouses back. So, what is the way to go?...

There is certainly a wide range of ways of thinking and views in the board. Maybe you have not noticed, but there is.

Your story is inspiration as are the ones of many here.

I’m sorry if you are perceiving me as closed. That is an irony since I’ve always thought MLC can be mitigated and have had many heated discussions with other board members because of it. I have a scientific mind. If you tell me you have one case where it is working I’m going to be interested but I will tend to see what seems to work better for most cases. I will also want to know why a particular case is working with things that are different if the situation is the same. But that requires info. We have no info on your friend’s husband. That is, we do not know why therapy is working for him, only that it is working. Could you please provide more info? What makes his case different from most here?

32 supplements, Ready2?  That is huge lot of supplements… 

[evas]

My friend is NotGivingUpOnU, and her therapist helped me in a BIG way. I am in the US, NotGivingUpOnU is in Europe but she passed along info after each of her therapy sessions. I will let her speak for herself about her H and her and their therapy, should she want to. The amazing this when she and I hooked up, was that I felt there was a lightness about her (NotGivingUP), she didn't take this whole MLC business so seriously, which was unbelievable to me as I at times was feeling near suicidal. She believed there was a way out, she believed, and she had access to a therapist who believed too.

Me too, I hope my H one day will share his thoughts. We are not that far along yet.

Kikki, that's the one thing that must be avoided at all costs: "This is how it should be done." One size certainly does not fit all. That's why I say: The more ideas, thoughts, and "solutions" the better off we all are.

I didn't agree to divorce my husband, I never brought up the issue, I gave him a certain period of time, during which I detached. And then I did what is generally perceived as BIG TIME pressure, not because I wanted to but because I HAD to for financial reasons: I told him I would have to relocate back to Europe where I am from. It is my belief that my H took that as a chance, or excuse if you will, to come back.

Of course not MLCers are the same! Again that's why I say: Let's present and explore other ideas! Let's not be so stuffy as to say: "That's not for the kind of MLC we deal with here." How do you or I or anyone know what kind of MLCer we are dealing with when a newbie first arrives?

Why no more reconciliation stories? I hear this all the time: Because the board is too young. Well, that may be the case, but also  I think there's a fear in the LBSer to report back, a fear because he or she may feel that they have to be reconnected for years and years first, and as Stayed stated on my thread: Once they are over that, they are also over the board.

I will not add anymore to this discussion. I wish all of you the best and you are all in my prayers.

[Anjae]

I’m glad for NotGivingUpOnU that therapy is working for her and her husband. Is she would be willing to, it would be interesting to heard her.

More than having access to a therapist that believed there was a way out (and that, from what we know/hear is rare), NotGivingUpOnU had a husband who accept to go, and stay, in therapy. A thing not many here have.

Will be looking forward to your husband thoughts when he will share them.

Stayed husband did something similar to your husband. When he realised he could really loose her, he returned. But sadly it does not work with every MLCer. I’ve been pressuring for divorce for years, want to remarry and have a family. Mr J still drags the divorce. He does not divorce and he does not get out of crisis. Maybe he is stuck but I don’t really believe that.

I don’t think one has to be reconnecting for years and years first. In fact I was thinking of posting about RCR blog post where she talks about one year apart if the MLCer have lived with OW. For me that is up to each LBS. To what we are comfortable with.

For me, stop posting if reconciliation happens, I think it would be more along the line I’ve reconciled, I may not be up to keep around since I have a husband to enjoy. This may leave us in the dark about the latter stages and the reconciliation stories but I find it normal that a LBS may want to leave the MLC nightmare aside and stop posting.

[kikki]

The amazing this when she and I hooked up, was that I felt there was a lightness about her (NotGivingUP), she didn't take this whole MLC business so seriously, which was unbelievable to me as I at times was feeling near suicidal. She believed there was a way out, she believed, and she had access to a therapist who believed too.

This is where I find this synchronicity to be amazing. 
You both connected and were such incredible support for each other, and your H's both came home with a couple of weeks of each other.
I do not believe that is a fluke.  Your H's were possibly on similar places on the MLC spectrum. 

We each tend to gravitate towards other LBS that we feel sympatico with, for a variety of reasons.
I believe this is what helps us through our individual journeys without going completely insane ourselves.

It is so lovely to hear to things are going well for you Evas.  Wishing you and your family all the very best and looking forward to hearing more one day in the future.

[Trustandlove]

evas, to me it sounds like you did what you had to do not as a 'tactic', but because it was what you had to do.  I remember you posting about it at the time. 

I think that was the difference -- if we, any of us, try someone else's methods as a 'tactic', it has a very good chance of backfiring.  If it is honest and true to ourselves, and we really do let go of the outcome, it's a very different scenario. 

That is what your sitch sounds like.

And I agree with kikki about the synchronicity with NGU...

I, too, wish you all the best, and am truly glad that things are working the way you both want them to. 

[NotGivingUpOnU]

Hi everyone,

Anne J, I’m reading and re reading evas posts on this thread and she never said me and my H are in MC, she said we are in Therapy. It’s an individual therapy. With the same therapist. And my H didn’t accept to go, he started therapy on his own initiative 5 weeks post BD as he didn’t feel better after leaving me , the cause of all what was wrong with his life. Deep down he felt he has a problem. 3 months later, actually after I found out about the OW he quit therapy. He resumed it again after we got back together in November last year. And is doing great, he’s dealing with his issues, he’s aware what has caused his feelings of inadequacy and he’s dealing with his rejection issues.

According to my therapist, who’s a clinical psychologist, and does believe in CRISIS, (She refuses to call it MLC.) there has to be underlying emotional issue, unresolved childhood trauma or a disorder present for the crisis to develop. My H has NPD.
At midlife we all go through some sort of transition and in emotionally balanced people it doesn’t end in crisis. And her experience is that person in crisis can benefit from psychotherapy. The person has to be willing and ready to deal with the issues of course. MLCers are in pain and they do what kids do, point fingers and blame others.
But hey, that’s nothing you don’t know already.

What worked for me was that I took all the advice from my therapist very seriously and I played the game at first, I was behaving exactly how she told me to behave. She was warning me that I need to accept and detach and it has to be genuine as he’ll know I’m bluffing. And nothing worked until I did genuinely detach and stopped paying attention to a little dance he was doing. I was cordial but only wanted to discuss our S. I become bulletproof to his spewing and it all nicely ricochet in his direction. Soon he started changing and I can pinpoint the day he looked my direction. He got scared he will lose me. Same as Evas H and same as Stayed’s H.

I will start my own thread with the advice I got from the therapist. One of them was to do the relationship autopsy. Also “be careful to fly under the radar. Never validate anything you don’t agree with. Stop holding his ankles, let him have his freedom, give him plenty of what he wants and more on the top.”

I’m gone off the topic here, what my friend wanted to say is that the first posts delivered to newbies could be a little harsh as they are scared and confused and then they learn there’s no way out. While no one knows for sure that there isn’t a way out.

One thing that freaked me out and that’s why I don’t post much, is that I was left under impression that ppl here don’t believe my reconnection and reconciliation counts as it’s out of the usual time frame. It turned me into MLC police officer who’s observing my H and waiting for him to take a hike any day. Although it’s 10 months since he expressed his wish to come home and nearly 7 months since we reconciled. He opened up and told me exactly how he felt while at the rock bottom. And I know for sure his MLC didn’t started at BD, so I don’t think it’s fair to say that 2-7 years counts from the BD, which I’m almost 100% sure that I’ve read here on forum. My h was in MLC since at least 2009, if not 2007.Us LBSs feel it was the sudden change at BD, just cause of the shock we get, but if you start looking back you too will realize that’s not the case for the great majority of us. I did realize, even looking through the photos from 2010 (when I thought we were blissfully happy yet I was walking on eggshells) that he looked miserable.

That’s just my view, everyone is different, every crisis is different too.

I wish you all to get your miracles xx

[kikki]

Hi NotGivingUpOnU
Thanks so much for posting.  Really looking forward to reading more about your situation and the advice you received from your therapist. 

The guidelines in terms of timeframes, from what I understand are 2-7 years on average, for the whole crisis.  With replay being up to 2+years post BD within that. 
As you say, every crisis is different and every person in crisis is different. 
That is just a general guideline of averages.

BD for me was Feb 2010, with a few years of very strange and detached behaviour prior to this, that my H couldn't/wouldn't explain. 

Thanks, I hope we all get our miracles too, and really looking forward to hearing more from your therapist. It seems rare to find a therapist with such insight into (no offence to the therapists on the board) or interest in crises.