[kikki]

or this?  http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201306/two-warning-signs-your-relationship-may-not-last

[Thundarr]

A nice read (actually, it wasn't as I have read WAY too many journal studies and statistics in my life as it is!!) and a lot of information contained therein, but I have to weigh in as I see several holes in this being a key (at least in my sitch).

First off, I'll bore everyone by pointing out that the concept of "personality disorder" is a hotly contested topic in many mental health circles.  Noted psychiatrist Dr. William Glasser dismisses the concept and prefers to use the term "personality style."  Glasser believes that it is presumptuous to label one type of personality a "disorder" and another as being healthy.  The new DSM-5 even does away with Borderline PD and puts it as an Axis I diagnosis in the bi-polar spectrum.  In addition to Glasser many other mental health professionals tend to gravitate away from diagnosing someone with a PD since all PDs are Axis II diagnoses and theoretically static and unchanging throughout the life-span.  The recent article that was posted relating to how personalities change over time would be in line with the non-acceptance of PD diagnoses.

All that notwithstanding, it doesn't appear that most of our spouses would have exhibited PD symptoms prior to BD.  I can think of Hobo/ TB and the many convos he and I have had concerning how his XW's symptoms throughout their relationship are consistent with APD but I am unable to think of more than that.  I'm sure there are more, but I confess to not being caught up on all the threads.  I can say that although my XW was not a confrontational person (except toward me) but not to the degree that it would be considered any type of "disorder."  She was immature, but so am I in many ways (okay, go ahead and agree with me).  She functions very well socially and has several friends from work, and was even voted "nicest" and "friendliest" by the other ladies in her office.  She was very well-liked by all who knew her, and accepted by my family as one of us.  Now, she has different friends at work who don't really seem to have anything in common with her (except for being old maids at least) and treats most of our old friends like crap.  Our closest couple friends were here one night when she dropped the kids off and she dissed them like an Israeli would a Pakistani (no offense to anyone).  They couldn't believe the way she was and said it was not like her at all.  So, if PDs are global and perpetual then how do we explain 180 degree turns?  How would that explain the 180s toward the children who they so adored, and how would it explain the upside-down moral compass? It wouldn't.  I think the study has merit to it, and as I said it may explain a fractional number of MLCers, but as far as being a reliable explanation for the majority of cases here I have serious doubts.  Just my .02.

[calamity]

she dissed them like an Israeli would a Pakistani

Congratulations Thundarr now you've managed to offend by my count: 

• divorced women [hags--I may soon be one],
• feminists [feminazis]--that's definitely me
• Israelis &
• Pakistanis [I would include Indians also since they are often confused].  This is a new one on me--do Israelis have a special relationship with Pakistanis?

[expletive deleted]

[calamity]

Ooooh, you meant Palestinians.  But still, there very well could be Palestinian or Israeli lbs's on here & since we accept you red-neck good ol' boy lbs's...

[Thundarr]

Ha, Calamity, I would never refer to you as a "bag"!  That's the term left for those who encourage the break-up of families through telling married women "You don't need no man!"  I switched to "bag" per Ready1's suggestion as the previous term was worse.  And "feminazi are man-haters, whereas most feminists are anything but (at least not in my experience). 

And thanks for the red-neck compliment!!  We DO wear it with pride around these parts!!

[calamity]

Ahh, I can see it now:  The Red-neck Pride Parade. 

[Braveheart]

she dissed them like an Israeli would a Pakistani

Congratulations Thundarr now you've managed to offend by my count: 

• divorced women [hags--I may soon be one],
• feminists [feminazis]--that's definitely me
• Israelis &
• Pakistanis [I would include Indians also since they are often confused].  This is a new one on me--do Israelis have a special relationship with Pakistanis?

[expletive deleted]

You are looking for something to be offended about that isn't there. Not all divorced women or feminists are pleasant people to be around, and discrimination in Israel against migrant workers is well documented.

[Braveheart]

A nice read (actually, it wasn't as I have read WAY too many journal studies and statistics in my life as it is!!) and a lot of information contained therein, but I have to weigh in as I see several holes in this being a key (at least in my sitch).

First off, I'll bore everyone by pointing out that the concept of "personality disorder" is a hotly contested topic in many mental health circles.  Noted psychiatrist Dr. William Glasser dismisses the concept and prefers to use the term "personality style."  Glasser believes that it is presumptuous to label one type of personality a "disorder" and another as being healthy.  The new DSM-5 even does away with Borderline PD and puts it as an Axis I diagnosis in the bi-polar spectrum.  In addition to Glasser many other mental health professionals tend to gravitate away from diagnosing someone with a PD since all PDs are Axis II diagnoses and theoretically static and unchanging throughout the life-span.  The recent article that was posted relating to how personalities change over time would be in line with the non-acceptance of PD diagnoses.

All that notwithstanding, it doesn't appear that most of our spouses would have exhibited PD symptoms prior to BD.  I can think of Hobo/ TB and the many convos he and I have had concerning how his XW's symptoms throughout their relationship are consistent with APD but I am unable to think of more than that.  I'm sure there are more, but I confess to not being caught up on all the threads.  I can say that although my XW was not a confrontational person (except toward me) but not to the degree that it would be considered any type of "disorder."  She was immature, but so am I in many ways (okay, go ahead and agree with me).  She functions very well socially and has several friends from work, and was even voted "nicest" and "friendliest" by the other ladies in her office.  She was very well-liked by all who knew her, and accepted by my family as one of us.  Now, she has different friends at work who don't really seem to have anything in common with her (except for being old maids at least) and treats most of our old friends like crap.  Our closest couple friends were here one night when she dropped the kids off and she dissed them like an Israeli would a Pakistani (no offense to anyone).  They couldn't believe the way she was and said it was not like her at all.  So, if PDs are global and perpetual then how do we explain 180 degree turns?  How would that explain the 180s toward the children who they so adored, and how would it explain the upside-down moral compass? It wouldn't.  I think the study has merit to it, and as I said it may explain a fractional number of MLCers, but as far as being a reliable explanation for the majority of cases here I have serious doubts.  Just my .02.

More and more MLC appears to be hormonally and stress related, both of which effect men and women at middle age. My personal views on this is that our MLC'ers probably did have hidden issues, but nothing serious enough to be considered anything but as personality quirks we all have. These were well under control as long as hormonal and stress levels remained within certain boundaries. An example of what might be considered a personality quirk is being a "Clean Freak", which flips into a excessive compulsive disorder after some life changing event.

Based on that, I feel it's unlikely we'll ever see the people we married again, because the brain chemistry soup of hormones that made them who they were has been altered and will never again be what it was. The switch has been flipped and the old circuits are blown.

[xyzcf]

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nightly-news/52199065/#52199065

This was on the news tonight concerning Frontal Temporal Dementia which occurs before age 60 and has the following characteristics:

Personality changes, bad judgment, disruption of the family infrastructure, inability to feel empathy and loss of inhibitions.

The couple who are both scientists were married 30 years. It states that this may help the spouse to understand "the pain of believing that their loved one no longer cares".

Another article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/06/health/a-rare-form-of-dementia-tests-a-vow-of-for-better-for-worse.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

"Patients generally receive from one to four misdiagnoses, and it may take years to finally get the right answer. Mistaken diagnoses can include Alzheimer’s disease, stroke, midlife crisis or psychiatric illnesses like depression, bipolar disorder, post-traumatic stress or anxiety. Many relatives of patients say doctors dismiss their reports of personality change. But it is real.

“They totally break down in their ability to connect with other people and care about them,” Dr. Miller said. "

Sound familiar?

[Anjae]

Sound familiar?

Sounds familiar but I don't think our spouses are suffering from Frontal Temporal Dementia.

More and more MLC appears to be hormonally and stress related, both of which effect men and women at middle age. My personal views on this is that our MLCers probably did have hidden issues, but nothing serious enough to be considered anything but as personality quirks we all have. These were well under control as long as hormonal and stress levels remained within certain boundaries.

Agree.

Based on that, I feel it's unlikely we'll ever see the people we married again, because the brain chemistry soup of hormones that made them who they were has been altered and will never again be what it was. The switch has been flipped and the old circuits are blown.

Well, those who got their spouses back, or who have contact with previous MLCers, say they return pretty much to what they were. They will never be the same again but many seem to become relatively similar to what they used to be. However I think it takes time for them to readjust. I'm not certain how the adjustment it done.

My cousin who had MLC (a mild one by our the partners of this board) is more or less back to his old self. I say more or less because some things are still out of place and not integrated. And he has not, at least yet, become a better version of his former self. He is his former self with some MLC quirks.

He has waked up some 22 months ago. The first 6 months after Liminal Depression were hell. 6 more months and he started to calm down a bit. 18 months become to be much more is old self. It was (has been) progressive and he still has a long way to go.
Since he never did any blood or brain tests I'm not able to know how his hormonal and brain chemicals levels progressed through all the stages of his crisis. But I do know stress was a major factor. My cousin himself confirmed it was stress, too much of it (and overworking, a thing that causes stress), that lead to the rest.