[Anjae]

I think we underestimate the negative health effect on the LBS. This too is worthy of investigating. This stress really does a number, a chronic one, on the body. If we polled all the health issues that come up in the two year post BD period, we'd be shocked. At some point there is the question, "At what price?" Hope, there is always hope. If my h hadn't gone over the edge so far, who knows, maybe I'd still be pining. Standing for ourselves is enough to remain on the site. Also, I think for valid data, RCR needs to see all of the outcomes. And, these people have become part of our lives. Remember, we're the loyal ones who make deep connections:)

Yes, at some point there is the question, at what price. Don't think we underestimate the negative health effect on the LBS. Maybe we don't talk as much as we should about it.

Also, I think we will be differently affect if we are divorced from our MLCer or not. And if we're still married to them, if they live at home or elsewhere, if we see them, if we don't. And if we have, or don't have, financial problems caused by the MLCer crisis.

All those variables (and others) will have an impact in our health.

Yes, standing for ourselves is enough to remain in the board. And the board has been supporting LBS who have chosen different paths.

Hope, of course, remains. But at a point hope can be for us as well. That we will make it.

[Dontgiveup]

It's not impossible, but one example or even 50 on a site with thousands of posts is hardly proof that anything but a very small number of spouses will return.

A small number of returns may be true, but thousands of posts is different from thousands of posters (as I think Old Pilot looked at for you before).

I really have to question the idea that waiting around for more than a couple of years is mentally healthy, it suggests wallowing in denial, especially if the other spouse has remarried or has had multiple partners after BD.

If you set your time limit at two years, your likelihood of disappointment will be high.

[Braveheart]

Braveheart, so what are you doing here still?  I'm not trying to question your right to be here & you are welcome BUT why go into this 'we are giving newbies false hope'?  Again?  If we are in denial reality will come to us in a timely manner.  Unhealthy?  Healing is an individual process.  Who's to say how or when this should take place.  Many lbs's on the site have been here years & I don't think any of them are 'unhealthy'--quite the opposite in fact.

That being said.  I do believe there is hope for reconciliation--that's what this site is all about & there are plenty of other sites for divorce support.  As long as you don't live on hope, who is that hurting?

Because we are giving them false hope if we imply there is good chance their spouse is coming back if they just stand long enough. One see's that repeated over and over again in forum threads. The reality is only 10% of X spouses do remarry each other. If the idea that their realtionship is going to R eventually is continually reinforced, their acceptence of Reality is going to be considerably delayed, the work on themselves to recover put on hold.

As OP says, "you have been given the gift of time", it should put to the best use possible in our own recovery. What our STBX's are doing, what they are posting on FB and what possible stage they are at should be the last thing we should be worried about until our own work is done.

[Braveheart]

If you set your time limit at two years, your likelihood of disappointment will be high.

[/quote]

Not near as disappointing as waiting for seven years and missing the opportunity of meeting someone else who treats you the way you deserve to be ;~).

[Dontgiveup]

Because we are giving them false hope if we imply there is good chance their spouse is coming back if they just stand long enough. One see's that repeated over and over again in forum threads.

I think what there is a good chance of is the MLCer making it through their crisis.  Reconciliation or "coming  back" is a whole 'nother deal.

[Dontgiveup]

Not near as disappointing as waiting for seven years and missing the opportunity of meeting someone else who treats you the way you deserve to be ;~).

Possibly true, I don't know.  You refer to odds and chances.....every new relationship has odds and chances attached as well.

It seems you also have the belief MLC is permanent......so why wait even two years to not be disappointed about missing out?

Of course you deserve better, but please don’t fool yourself into believing that divorce is better; it’s often more permanent than MLC. But this is your life and you need to do what is best for you, for your children, your health and well-being and you need to follow your life purpose; maybe Standing is not part of that.

[Still Kicking]

As a person who lived long enough to make it to "Mid-Life" I don't need to be managed like a child.  I need to be given the information and the support and encouragement to be able to plot the best course for myself.  There is a disclaimer on this site that there is no guarantee of repairing a marriage but the site will help with repair of oneself.  I don't see anything misleading in that.

Newbies need hope even if the odds are bad.  I am only 9 months out but already I am seeing excitement ahead for myself as a single person and wondering if I want the old relationship back.  If you had asked me 9 months ago I would not have wanted to live with no hope of getting back that same relationship.  So false hope got me through to the next phase.   And if you don't think people are desperately googling for articles elsewhere that will give them more false hope then you've forgotten the first few days after BD.  It is better to have this site that tries to put the focus on self healing rather than selling a grasping person who just got the financial rug pulled out from under them the latest expensive MLC package. 

I have seen many desperate people come on here who have evolved to the same point--they see they may have an alcoholic or abusive person and they grow beyond wanting that back.  But in the beginning all they can think about is their loss and they need hope of some kind to go on.  The trick is not getting stuck there. 

And the hope isn't all that false.  I know people in my life who reconciled even after 10 years.  But neither sat around waiting.  They went on with their lives and at some point came together again.  I also know of people who didn't get back together who regretted it but conventional wisdom of the time dictated that there was no going back.  Or they were encouraged to kick the other to the curb and escalated the break up into a war from which there was no return.    We have new information on how to cope now and we don't know for sure how it will turn out in the long run. 

For a new person I think the emphasis should be on their own personal survival and damage control--don't beg/plead, etc. and make it worse.  The carrot on the stick for that is that the people who have reconciled had done the work on themselves rather than focused on getting back the spouse.  Rather than worry about giving false hope give the hope that the best chance is to get on with their lives.  Because it is true.  And if they work on that they will be okay even if the spouse doesn't return. 

[kikki]

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nightly-news/52199065/#52199065

This was on the news tonight concerning Frontal Temporal Dementia which occurs before age 60 and has the following characteristics:

Personality changes, bad judgment, disruption of the family infrastructure, inability to feel empathy and loss of inhibitions.

The couple who are both scientists were married 30 years. It states that this may help the spouse to understand "the pain of believing that their loved one no longer cares".

Another article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/06/health/a-rare-form-of-dementia-tests-a-vow-of-for-better-for-worse.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

"Patients generally receive from one to four misdiagnoses, and it may take years to finally get the right answer. Mistaken diagnoses can include Alzheimer’s disease, stroke, midlife crisis or psychiatric illnesses like depression, bipolar disorder, post-traumatic stress or anxiety. Many relatives of patients say doctors dismiss their reports of personality change. But it is real.

“They totally break down in their ability to connect with other people and care about them,” Dr. Miller said. "

Sound familiar?

It sure does xyzcf.
When my H first changed into someone we no longer recognised, my first thought was brain tumour?  Then I thought bipolar?  Then I found this website and thought MLC.  A few months ago I read about this form of dementia and the personality changes, and connected the fact that they now know through scanning that depression reduces blood flow to the prefrontal cortex, and gives rise to personality changes too.

So - I am watching from afar, getting on with life as much as possible, wondering what the future holds - as I know any one of these could be a possibility.
I guess that is why some people 'recover' and some don't. 

It is why I do not question for one minute, that for my H to be doing what he is doing - something seriously has changed in his brain.  Whether this is 'temporary' or not, will remain to be seen.

And I agree wholeheartedly FTT, the effect of this on us is horrific.   With the added insult of society looking sideways at us, as though we are the ones with something wrong.

I think if running away and the affair were not part of what our spouses were doing, then they would more likely get help, and we might get more support. 
Less of the 'oh you poor thing - move on - he/she fell in love with someone else'.

It would be good to screen them to be able to check that none of these disorders are at play here. But of course, that is not going to happen.

[Slow Fade]

I think Standing is an individual process. My God is bigger than MLC. I think he led me here to connect with a community of strong, beautiful people who are going through he!! on earth. We support each other, learn from each other and care for each other even though most of us have never met. Whether we reconcile or not is not the issue. The issue is how we deal with it; how we take care of ourselves and our families and how we help each other cope.

I know I have grown, and been comforted through this by sharing my thoughts and feelings on this forum. I have learned and would like to think perhaps people have learned from me, even thought I'm still a newbie. My faith tells me that hope is not futile. My faith tells me that God has a plan. It may not be what I want (reconciliation), but it is what is best for me and I hold onto that. If I can help others as I walk through my dark valley, then I am honoring my God and my beliefs and that's enough for me.

Myself, I walk by faith and not by sight and I will say it again. My God is bigger than MLC and bigger than my circumstances. I will never give up on Hope.

[iamnottheenemy]

When my H first changed into someone we no longer recognised, my first thought was brain tumour?  Then I thought bipolar?  Then I found this website and thought MLC.  A few months ago I read about this form of dementia and the personality changes, and connected the fact that they now know through scanning that depression reduces blood flow to the prefrontal cortex, and gives rise to personality changes too.

Somehow these things are all related:

From Health Central:

The younger the age of onset of bipolar disorder, the more likely it is to find a significant family history of bipolar, depression and/or dementia.  In 10% of bipolar cases, a manic episode occurred around age 50. As an individual ages, s/he may develop new-onset mania associated with vascular changes, or become manic only after recurrent depressive episodes.

See also Martin, Dorian. “Extreme Behavior Changes May Be Sign of Frontotemporal Dementia.” Health Central, April 18, 2011:

“By one estimate, 15 out of 100,000 people between the ages of 45 and 64 develop it. Patients lost the ability to connect with others, but because self-awareness also disappears, they remain ignorant of their deficits,” Chen stated. ...

Behavioral changes include impulsive behavior, inappropriate social behavior, lack of tact, lack of empathy, distractability, loss of insight about one’s own behavior, increased interest in sex, changes in food preferences, agitation or blunted emotions, decreased motivation, antisocial behavior (reckless/drunk driving, shoplifting). Emotional changes include: abrupt mood changes; decreased interest in daily living activities; failure to recognize changes in behavior; failure to show emotional warmth, concern, empathy, or sympathy; inappropriate mood; and not caring about events or environment.

I think we discussed the link between midlife depression and dementia a few months back.  See Gardner, Amanda. “Depression in Middle Age Linked to Dementia.” Health.com, May 8, 2012:

People who have symptoms of depression in middle age may be at increased risk of dementia decades later, a new study suggests. ...

The study didn't include any data on whether the depressed participants received treatment, or what type of treatment. That question is "really important," Nemeroff says. "We'd really like to know: If depression [were] aggressively treated with psychotherapy or antidepressants, could you stave off dementia?"

I don't know how much of a part this plays in MLC, but it's thought-provoking.