[in it]

Found online:

How to Protect Yourself from a Narcissist's Manipulation
04/29/2014

Two techniques for dealing with narcissists which people have shared with me and I have found helpful are "Medium Chill" and "Robot Mode".   There is a lot of overlap in the two concepts.  I present them both because most people identify more easily with one than the other.  Take what you like.

Medium Chill

I cannot find a good description of Medium Chill on the web which is openly accessible.  Basically, Medium Chill is a technique for dealing with narcissists.  Some people advocate it for life in general.  That is not my recommendation.  I only recommend this as a strategy for dealing with narcissistic abuse.

Basically, Medium Chill is  something you utilize to allow the narcissist's attempts to get inside your head to flow over you without effect.  You want to wall off your emotional responses and protect them from manipulation.  Maintain a flat expression, or perhaps even a vaguely pleasant expression and block off your emotions so they have no way of telling that they're having an effect - and chill.

The theory behind Medium Chill is that a narcissist's goal is to provoke an emotional response from you.   They crave having power over you and seeing the disruption to your mind that they're able to exercise.  They emotionally manipulate you to get an emotional response from you.  And it doesn't matter what the emotional response is.  A fight is as good as a cheer of encouragement, a screaming curse as good as a flowery compliment.   They just want a reaction.  They just want attention.  And they do not care how much it upsets you or affects you because they have no empathy.  It's all about them. 

Provoking an outburst from you also allows them to write you off - to themselves and others - as the crazy one.  You are the one behaving badly.  All they said was...    and you just went off!

However, give them no outward sign that you're affected by their manipulations and they move on to someone more easily manipulated.

Robot Mode

Robot Mode works much the same.  I do not advocate the use of either method as a way of manipulating narcissists or as an offensive move, only as a defense.   The best thing is to get away from them.  If you can't, Robot Mode may be helpful to protect yourself.

It consists primarily of locking away your emotions and intellectualizing about what is happening between you and the narcissist - instead of feeling it.  You must realize that the narcissist is reading your emotions and calculating responses based upon what they read.  If you stop thinking about what your feeling and block off your emotions from the predatory narcissist, then you are free to analyze what is happening with a cool and detached mind and make better decisions about how to respond - or not to respond.

Remember, the narcissist is an emotional manipulator whose goal is to provoke you to react, or even better, overreact.  Then they can derail you from the point you were trying to make, or the bad behavior which you were confronting them about, or the boundary you were trying to set.  If they can provoke you to behave badly enough, they can cast you as the crazy one. 

Also remember that a narcissist's emotions are very limited and very shallow.  They feel no empathy and no remorse.  (I have been told they only experience fear and anger.  I have not seen this disproven yet.)  Given that they experience no empathy and no remorse, trying to "connect" with them is futile.  If someone feels no remorse and no empathy, what is there to connect with???   Because their emotions are extremely limited, or non-existent, they view people who have emotions as being "weak" and easily manipulated.  They resent the fact that you feel and realize there is something missing in them because they do not.  But they will never own this, nor are most of them even conscious of it themselves.  This is what is happening on the subconscious level. Consciously, they just sneer at you for being so "weak" and get off on exerting their power over you by manipulating your emotions.

Also, because they experience no remorse, they are not bound by conscience, morality, ideals, principles or "doing the right thing".  They are not loyal friends, lovers or parents.  They are not fair bosses.  The right thing for a narcissist is whatever suits them at the moment.  What effect that will have on others is absolutely unimportant to the narcissist.  It's all about them and what they want.  How do you interact with someone like that?  Robot Mode.

By putting your emotions out of reach and blocking them off you take away their ammunition against you.  They are unable to "read" you.  By cutting off your emotions, you are now on the same playing field with them.  You can coldly calculate your next move,  just as they do.  You are now talking to a Robot as a Robot.  Robots don't emote.  They don't react.  Robots don't care.  Robots can't be guilted, or shamed, or bullied. 

It's important to point out that Robot Mode is not about dissociation, spacing out, tuning out or "leaving the room" mentally.  It's about being more present, more aware, more in the moment.  You have to stay with your body and in your mind in order to protect yourself.  It's about walling off your emotions so they are protected, not disconnected.  It's about staying on guard.  It's about putting up your defenses and protecting the sensitive, caring, empathic part of yourself the narcissist seeks to manipulate. 

[Velika]

I have a question and that is: How do we differentiate between a true narcissist and a MLC narcissist, and does the latter even exist?

I'm one of the bewildered here who has considered many explanations for the radical personality change I've witnessed: affair fog, SSRI, "crisis," FOO, etc. Yet I've reached the point where the only explanation that really seems to hold is narcissism. It is an obvious "devalue and discard." No empathy or remorse, only blame.

Is there even one single case on this forum of someone coming out of this going from non-NPD to "MLC-NPD" to non-NPD? For those who have studied NPD is it even possible to have a "temporary" narcissism?

Can narcissists "hide" for a decade?

[Ready2Transform]

My ex-FIL is NPD. Even at his worst monster, and xH has a pretty bad one, it doesn't compare to what has always been my FIL. There would have been no times in your marriage you would have seen any emotion that wasn't self-serving from your H if he were NPD. I wish I could bottle it and send my FIL's essence to each of you so you could see the difference. Honestly, it was a HUGE issue in our marriage because my xH longed fro my FIL's approval, and there is NO WAY he will ever truly get it because FIL is not capable of validating anyone. I could tell stories all day that would be like MLC on crack. It is different.

I think in the window of time since BD that most of us are in now (even on the longer side, because we've been standers) it is nearly impossible to take a look back at our relationships and get a clear picture of what they were without rewriting some of it. We're just too close to it. We want to find something we missed. But I doubt most of us missed anything. Could they have been troubled people with issues? Certainly. Many of us are, too. But true NPDs are creatures like we've not known. It's abusive on a level that is not sudden and unexpected - it's something that has always been an undercurrent in the relationship. I believe this is why mental illness is normalized in xH"s family, and why MIL in particular acts like everyone needs to fall in line and accommodate it. It's all she knows how to do now. That's not us! We see this is not normal, because we've HAD normal.

That's my opinion, anyway, based on what I've seen. Reject or accept any of it that resonates.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

Nothing much to add except to say that I agree with R2T. There's a big difference between the self-centered behavior of an MLCer or somebody who's depressed and a true NPD.

[Passiflora]

Hi all,
First I think you are a lot like me (Velika) one of our defense mechanism are Intellectualization. We try and try to find "answers", are these "bat-sh*t-crazy-mlc'r" Npd/Depressed/bipolar/borderline/antisocial or what the h*ll is going on? Some way thinking the answer will give us closure perhaps?

I'm educated in economics. 1+1 =2 not 1 not 3 not 9 or anything else!  The more I study these mental health disorders, the more complex it gets. They all, more or less, carry the same symptoms and the answer is like 1+1 = 12 or 4 or 6 or 8

After almost 2 years from BD, I'm still there. Was/is my husband Npd? is he depressed?  What do I know? I know he is; disrespectful for others, irresponsible, dishonest, shows hostility, being manipulative and/or greedy, callousness, has a huge desire for sex, harmful and impulsiveness. He uses all of the "primitive defense mechanisms" psychcentral.com/lib/15-common-defense-mechanisms/?all=1

This behavior is something almost all of us have experienced from our Hs and Ws, isn't it? It's also the same behavior I've seen in different males close to me, my dad, my brother, my BIL to name a few (my BIL only one I know for sure was cheating on his wife) What causes this? Are they all malignant npd's? I don't think so. Self centered? Yes maybe. My dad got worse and worse, I think OR maybe as you grow older you recognize the bad behavior more and more. 20 years ago my dad spent time in jail for shooting at his gf, when she wanted to leave him after 2 years. Now I've started to think how his letter to me during this time, was nothing but pity parties letter, all the blame was put on her for leaving him. Talk about huge abandonment issues! The few times I met him after my mum and him split up he "played" me (my brothers also) on these; FOG, Fear, obligation and guilt. Everytime, everything he wanted. I can see the same pattern in my mum now. My SIL sees the same pattern in my BIL. Are they npd's, I don't know?

The only thing I do know is; I'm not putting up with more abuse. I have a value. I was not good at setting boundaries (due to my upbringing) but now I'm trying to learn how to do this. The impact on me/you is not worth getting abused, is it. As hard as it is, for me much much harder to distance myself from xh than from my dad, mentally (30 something years are more than 16 years perhaps) but I do not want to be in a situation where I can not be safe. My safety, your safety, my kids, your kids comes first, no matter if they are npd's/depressed/bipolar/addiction etc. For now, they have shown you they are not trustworthy.

Last, we can only guess, even if we are skilled psychologists (I'm not) they still just can guess. Only if they search therapy and get diagnosed, you will have the correct answer. Maybe when they hit rock bottom, maybe never. I also think we LBSs "suffers" a lot from cognitive dissonance from the mental stress. Cognitive dissonance is the discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, ideas or values, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values. We all have lived with our H/W and seen one side of them now they are showing another side of them and this is stressful holding these 2 total different sides of them + we don't want to accept that we in some sense was "wrong" about them (we want to see them as 100% good people, like we did)

I'm rambling a lot and I don't know if some makes sense to someone but trust me Velika, in 2 years this has been o my mind almost every waking hour. And now, sometimes, small glimpse of me knowing I can't fix this, I should not fix this. I should, we should only take care of our self and our kids for the moment. For the moment you and I can only be the best person you and I want to be, your values, your ethics/moral etc.

Hugs
   

[in it]

You make sense to me Passi

 I think the most shocking thing I read when I understood what I was dealing with was they can not change or heal because they do not see an issue with how they think, what they say, or their behavior. And you would think as they got older they may mellow and mature. They do not. They only get worse.

I wouldn't have understood this if I hadn't been pretty much forced to have contact with my mother. She got worse as she got older.

And I'm with you- I'm not putting up with anymore abuse. Safety is the most important thing.

[Strongwind]

Is there even one single case on this forum of someone coming out of this going from non-NPD to "MLC-NPD" to non-NPD? For those who have studied NPD is it even possible to have a "temporary" narcissism?

Can narcissists "hide" for a decade?

Velika, you had a good question but I don't think you're going to get an answer to that one? So far I've not seen temporary Narcissism and back to normal yet. Can they hide for decades? I've asked myself the same question about H. The problem with some narcs is that they wear a mask and appear to be very caring people for a long time. Once in a while the red flags are present but not so obvious to make too much of a fuss about them. I don't think that MLC should not transform people. I can understand the need to escape and the rebellion like a teen, I had my own MLC, but I don't understand cruelty, total discard, abuse, cheating, lying, deceiving and showing no remorse or empathy for the pain caused the LBS or children.

After 3 yrs of going through this hell, I still don't understand what MLC is. Is it even a true condition? It doesn't make sense to me that a person can do a 180 in personality like these spouses do.

I thought H was temporarily insane but the temporary has now turned into years of total disregard for my safety and my life....as if I didn't even exist. That's not even human... SW 

[sada]

Just wanted to say thanks for these articles on npd. My h isn't one but my mother is textbook. I'm sorry it took me almost 50 yrs to understand her callous, shrewish, hateful ways.  I have extremely low contact w/ her & it would really be fine w/ me to have nc at all.

[Mermaid]

I'm bumping this up because I've realized that my H is unhealthily narcissistic, and as I've been reading about the topic, I thought I'd share my thoughts.

First, according to the research of Dr Craig Malkin, there are different types of narcissism (echoism, healthy and unhealthy narcissism) and different degrees of each.

Not all narcissists are malevolent, predatory and cruel. Not all narcissists are extrovert braggers. My H isn't, which is why it's taken me so long to come to the conclusion that he is, actually, unhealthily narcissistic. He's a covert, introverted narcissist, outwardly the perfect H, a perfect professional. He's also (mostly) a good father, apart from incidents of pushing his children to an up achievable perfection, and dismissing their points of view.

In general, except at MLC, he's not a liar either. He's mildly abusive, emotionally, not physically.

Narcissists don't always have high self esteem. In general, they only appear to be confident to hide inner inadequacies. When they are given a lie detector test, confidence falls away.

What is a narcissist? According to Dr Craig, it's "an addiction to feeling special. It is an attempt to cope with the fear of depending on others in healthy ways. There’s lots of ways to cope with that"

They tend to observe (judgmentally) rather than act, and listen (half-heartedly) rather than speak.
Can show Withdrawn self-centeredness
Lack of Empathy
Passive-Aggressiveness
Responds with sullen withdrawal (flight rather than fight).
Think no-one else is so hard-working, so perfectionist, so insightful... so unique no one understands them
Work, films, even games take the place of meaningful relationships

And this underlying NPD leads to crisis, as relationships become threatening to them and fail to give them what they need, because they just can't handle true intimacy, negotiation, and interest in another person.

My H, at midlife, told me he needed to see the distance he needed to have from me.

I understand it now in a way I didn't understand in the past.

I've sent off for Dr Malkin's "Rethinking Narcissism" to see if his suggestions for dealing with narcissists in our lives will be any help in my M.

Some narcissists may be able to change, but our way of dealing with them is up to us.

See   https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/romance-redux/201309/can-narcissists-change 


My personal stuff is on my sitch.  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=7972.0

[in it]

From what I have read..NPDs tend to see emotional  intimacy as a threat.

As if they communicate what might be a problem or possible weakness or some kind of emotion  it will be used againest them. They don't see even tough times as a way for people to form a closer emotional attachment.

To them relatioships turn into competitions.And the cornerstone is control. They need to win whatever the cost.

And the only way for an emotionally healthy, sane person to win is not play.