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http://www.angriesout.com/grown17.htm

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http://blog.melanietoniaevans.com/how-to-empower-your-children/

[Mermaid]

Lovebystanding, thanks for these interesting articles on narcissism.

What leaps out to me is how similar the profile is to OWs family. I knew OWs mother well, and she was beginning to open up to me, but it was easy to see that she was a very fragile person behind the pretense that she presented to the outside world. Both her daughters have issues. The eldest, (ex) OW, was the golden girl, the perfect student (but her teachers regarded her as sly, manipulative). But she is a perfectionist too, all part of her need to maintain the prefect facade. She would get so anxious before her exams in case she got less than 100%. Her sister was the scape goat, and not surprisingly was bad at school, misbehaved, but eventually emulated her sister's drive for success, although at the same time became anorexic, had obsessive compulsive disorder, and stopped speaking to her mother (creating her own space). Her mother was frantic at not having her own needs met through her daughter.

So if OW is narcissistic and a perfectionist, what does this say about my H? He saw her as fragile, needing to be protected, and that she trusted few people, yet he was one. She was a reflection of himself in some ways, also perfectionist, and with ML narcissism. His family is not narcissistic, though. His mother closed off her feelings while she got on with the business of surviving, and valued H's success more than emotions. But not narcissistic.

[Lovebystanding]

Mermaid glad the articles help u to understand more.

To understand my H's behaviour I have to keep reading.It took awhile ...after all the projection...for me to realise it was him and not me . But the OP also has a significant role  wrt disorders and manipulative ways.The OW in my case is a real affair down.

 Is there hope for the narcissist  MLCers  and the people who love them?

 The narcissist need the right audience in order to feel like a star, so they often cultivate relationships with people who stick around for the show, instead of the person. Over time, as their perfect façade starts to slip, their constant fear that people will find them lacking becomes a horrifying reality. The very people who stuck around for the show lose interest when it ends—which merely convinces the narcissist they need to hide their flaws and put on a better show.

Alternatively, even when they fall for someone who could be more than just an adoring fan—someone who offers the hope of a more authentic, enduring love—narcissists still live with the paralyzing fear they’ll somehow be deemed unworthy. Their terror is frequently out of awareness, and nearly always managed with bravado and blame, but it’s profound and palpable.  Sadly, their anger at having their mistakes and missteps exposed ultimately alienates their loved ones, and the demise of yet another relationship prompts them to redouble their efforts to avoid vulnerability—in short, it pushes them towards more narcissism. The sad irony of the narcissistic condition is that, in an effort to protect themselves, narcissists inevitably invite the very rejection and abandonment they fear in the first place.

 The key, then, to interacting with someone you suspect is narcissistic is to break the vicious circle—to gently thwart their frantic efforts to control, distance, defend or blame in the relationship by sending the message that you’re more than willing to connect with them, but not on these terms; to invite them into a version of intimacy where they can be loved and admired, warts and all—if they only allow the experience to happen.

[Snowdrop]

LBS - thank you for your explanation.  Very interesting.  I do believe my H has always had narcissistic ways, and yet I didn't see it as that when we were together, although now it seems so obvious.

So what happened when we met then?  I feel our love was genuine, but for sure, I called him on every time he seemed fake, or when he seemed to act a different way in public.  He said I did the same, and if only others saw me for who I really was I admit that yes, I am different in some ways at home, aren't we all, but overall think I'm pretty transparent and don't hide.

It WAS like he was on a stage.  He would do things like suddenly ask company what they thought of what I just said if he felt it was against him , or one time I'd said something about the groceries he bought home as not being what he'd gone for, and he proceeded to tell a neighbour who was walking by, what SD said about the groceries.  No-one cared H!!  He was on top form when anyone sought his advice re work as he is intelligent and could help them, always seeming like the hero.  In the end, that is all he would talk about, work, and I remember feeling maybe because that is where he gets his praise, not so much from me, but them.  I called him out on everything, and he was a very angry man, so maybe now it might make sense.  He was hiding all this time, but in some ways, knew I was right, so would blow up and project.

On one of his visits after he left, he said, "Yeah, I told everyone what it was like for me living here, and as well, why do you always care about what other people think about you".  I was lke  as he pretty much talked about himself.  Interesting.

[Lovebystanding]

Yep SD my H always blew his own trumpet......needed a lot of praise.
His father was narcissistic and when one parent is narcissistic the other orbits... article on narcissistic family portrait...PG 1

[Lovebystanding]

Thanks init for the 2 links

Very informative ....helps to understand things better
and more importantly how to cope.

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The key, then, to interacting with someone you suspect is narcissistic is to break the vicious circle—to gently thwart their frantic efforts to control, distance, defend or blame in the relationship by sending the message that you’re more than willing to connect with them, but not on these terms; to invite them into a version of intimacy where they can be loved and admired, warts and all—if they only allow the experience to happen.

The sentence in blue? Forget about that IMHO.

 There is NO way to connect with a narcissist who's been that way thier whole life. Which may not be the case for most of you.

 For this MLC behavior some of these people have been caring and concerned for others before the MLC happened. For the LBS's here on the board it's a behavior they have never exhibited before.

"Loved and admired warts and all" borders on unconditional love and they have NO idea what that is.

They operate in life with an ulterior motive most of the time and it's to get thier gigantic ego fed. So as far as genuine? They have no idea what that is.

So the best way to deal with a "lifer" is simply ignore them (if they'll let you). This starves monster to death. That's why i'm using NC as a way to deal with all of this.

New behavior for ME! And it's working I finally have PEACE!

[Lovebystanding]

Init

FIL was authoritative,controlling and narsissistic all his life ...SIL got married at 18 just to get out of the house and divorced 1 yr later ....If a person has this personality disorder,research suggests that there is a slightly increased risk   for this disorder to be “passed down” to their children's

Causes of Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Researchers today don’t know what causes  narcissistic personality disorder.  There are many theories, however, about the possible causes of  narcissistic personality disorder.  Most professionals subscribe to a biopsychosocial model of causation — that is, the causes of  are likely due to biological and genetic factors, social factors (such as how a person interacts in their early development with their family and friends and other children), and psychological factors (the individual’s personality and temperament, shaped by their environment and learned coping skills to deal with stress). This suggests that no single factor is responsible — rather, it is the complex and likely intertwined nature of all three factors that are important. If a person has this personality disorder, research suggests that there is a slightly increased risk   for this disorder to be “passed down” to their children.

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Yeah- his father ruled the house with anger and intimidation. No alcohol involved. It was always NO before HE decided it would be yes ....like he'd done something nice for you.

I asked for a small picture I liked of his mothers after her death. Nothing valuable just something I associated with her. Right off the bat "NO!' so I let it slide later he came to me and told me I could have it. Like it was some thoughtful gesture. I did take it.

Can anybody spell CONTROL.

We didn't get along well at all at first..me being the Jaded woman..being married before etc. Not good enough for HIS son. I went toe to toe with him one time over how he acted towards the ex. He backed down but there was always these comments..disparaging is all I can say. Humiliation was one of his favorite weapons.

Their family dynamic is twisted to say the least. Mother lives in denial of any of the damage of this or anything else in regards to her sons. NO EMPATHY- so I still think this is all learned behavior to a larger extent.

Ex's lack of empathy his whole life comes from both parents but I think more from his mother than his father. His father was the example of anger and intimidation. It was effective until the sons got older.

Frankly my compassion and empathy is gone for both of them. His father died years ago.
His mother enables ex's bad behavior- she's living next door to him.