[Mermaid]

Detachment is not coldness, or aloofness. Quite the opposite. Detachment is losing your emotional dependency on others (not the same as codependency, but there are crossovers).

It's about having love, concern, and caring for others without needing to rescue, fix them or control them. So it's actually more loving, more altuistic, than clinging love.

Here's what I found on one of the links above, a long time ago:

Detachment is the:

!   Ability to allow people, places, or things the freedom to be themselves.
!   Holding back from the need to rescue, save, or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional, or irrational.
!   Giving another person ``the space'' to be him or herself.
!   Disengaging from an overenmeshed or dependent relationship with people.
!   Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person, place, or thing.
!   Developing and maintaining of a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life.
!   Establishing of emotional boundaries between you and those people you have become overly enmeshed or dependent with in order that all of you might be able to develop your own sense of autonomy and independence.
!   Process by which you are free to feel your own feelings when you see another person falter and fail and not be led by guilt to feel responsible for their failure or faltering.
!   Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern, and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, or controlling.
!   Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life.
!   Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
!   Ability to let people you love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and not give in when they come to you to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
!   Ability to allow people to be who they ``really are'' rather than who you ``want them to be.''
!   Ability to avoid being hurt, abused, taken advantage of by people who in the past have been overly dependent or enmeshed with you.

[kakt]

Through my therapy I have learned that I am codependant and it is not healthy, at all.  My therapist has me reading "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie.  It has helped me a great deal understanding myself and understanding how I in turn made my husband feel. I also suffer from anxiety and that has been more added pressure on our relationship too. I became isolated, and relied soley on H for all my social and communication needs. I lost my self. Now I am in the process of finding it and reconnecting with my friends and family and gaining my own confidence.

[Ready2Transform]

Here's a great article on Codependency vs. Interdependency by Darlene Lancer, JD, MFT.

http://psychcentral.com/lib/codependency-vs-interdependency/00014263

I was surprised to learn that this grove of aspen trees is actually one organism, sharing one root system. Each of us also is a community of 70 trillion cells that work together. Biologist Bruce Lipton believes that together we’re “one collaborative superorganism.” I love that Facebook allows us to connect one-to-one all over the planet.

Society is highly specialized and interdependent, so that few of us would know how to survive without running water, electricity, and a supermarket. We’re also dependent upon our personal relationships. Human brains aren’t fully developed for 18 years, and psychological and financial independence from our parents takes even longer. Moreover, as adults we depend upon others to fill sexual, social, and emotional needs, such as friendship, communication, nurturing, appreciation, learning, love, and touch. The closer a relationship, the more we’re interconnected.

The Debate

Many claim that because we’re wired for dependency, “codependency” is normal and shouldn’t be considered a problem. They claim it’s not only natural, but healthy and beneficial to be dependent upon an intimate relationship. They blame the codependency movement for breaking up marriages and people’s loneliness. I agree that we all have dependency needs and that healthy relationships can meet those needs and greatly benefit us. However, codependency’s detractors don’t understand — probably from lack of personal experience — that codependents don’t reap those relationship benefits. Often they’re in unhealthy relationships, and they relate to others in unhealthy ways with patterns of obsession, self-sacrifice, dysfunctional communication, and control, which are both self-destructive and hurtful to others. They’re often abusive or allow themselves to be abused.

Codependent Couples

Codependent couples usually are out of balance. Frequently, there are struggles for power and control. There may be an imbalance of power or one partner may have taken on responsibility for the other. They’re often anxious and resentful and feel guilty and responsible for their partner’s feelings and moods. Then they try to control each another to feel okay and get their needs met. Rather than respect each other’s separateness and individuality, they can’t tolerate disagreement and blame one another for causing their problems without taking responsibility for themselves. Sometimes, what they dislike in their partner is the very thing they can’t accept in themselves. Despite their pain, they can feel trapped in the relationship because they fear that they cannot function on their own. Their mutual codependency and insecurity also makes intimacy threatening, since being honest and known risks rejection or dissolution of their fragile self.

Like the aspen trees, on the surface each may appear to be physically, and even mentally and emotionally, independent, yet at an unconscious level, they’re two insecure adults dependent upon each other to express a whole. For instance, a woman who has trouble expressing anger marries an angry man who expresses it for her. Or a man who is extremely closed and shy marries a woman who’s emotionally open and gregarious. They need each other to express their full humanity. In other cases, it’s more obvious that one partner needs the other for emotional stability, as in the case of alcoholic relationships. Financial dependence doesn’t necessarily create codependence, where the dependent partner has good self-esteem and emotional support outside the marriage. Even spouses who appear more capable and stronger may be equally dependent on the relationship. They need someone to care for in order to feel needed, worthwhile, and not alone, while their partner feels valued by receiving.

Interdependent Couples

What makes interconnections healthy is interdependency, not codependency. Paradoxically, interdependency requires two people capable of autonomy (the ability to function independently). When couples love each other, it’s normal to feel attached, to desire closeness, to be concerned for each another, and to depend upon each other. Their lives are intertwined, and they’re affected by and need each other. However, they share power equally and take responsibility for their own feelings, actions, and contributions to the relationship. Because they have self-esteem, they can manage their thoughts and feelings on their own and don’t have to control someone else to feel okay. They can allow for each other’s differences and honor each another’s separateness. Thus, they’re not afraid to be honest. They can listen to their partner’s feelings and needs without feeling guilty or becoming defensive. Since their self-esteem doesn’t depend upon their partner, they don’t fear intimacy, and independence doesn’t threaten the relationship. In fact, the relationship gives them each more freedom. There’s mutual respect and support for each other’s personal goals, but both are committed to the relationship.

[Mermaid]

Thanks, Ready2Transform! That's a really clear analysis of the situation.

Attachment is not the same as dependency... we can be attached and not dependent. And there are different ways of being attached.

I think the confusion about codependency comes because we can often recognise some elements in ourselves. As wives/ mothers, we may take on too much and find ourselves putting our needs in second place.

In my case, my husband always worked long hours (up to 125 a week!) so I took on most of the household and child care tasks. As the children grew up, I assigned them tasks, and H too, but I was still overloaded (I was also teaching full time, and doing my PhD, etc.) But I made time for myself, going to the gym, out with friends,

I also recognise that H has some degree of PD (passive aggressive, narcissitic elements), and that means that our R had some disfunctionality... yet I put H on a pedestal. Despite this, I was very independent, had my own friends, career and was quite confident in myself (not depending on Hs approval). Moreover, I have always been open, and express what I think easily and I am assertive.

So I recognise that there were elements of codependency, and yet I was far from being codependent. I put this in the past because those elements which I thought were disfunctional have been addressed (are still being addressed... H still has some egocentric issues which drive me mad).

I suppose it is like this with many of us... our relationships become unbalanced because of life's demands, and also because of inner inbalances in both us and our H. There may be elements of co-dependency, and other pathologies, or you may really be fully co-dependent. Finally your R hits crisis point, and you have to face yourself.

So anyone who thinks they are co-dependent, before you beat yourself up about that too, (or think that codependence is acceptable), why not take an online test to see how much you need to readjust your behaviour?

Here's one I thought was good: http://www.codependencynomore.com/codependency-quiz-2/

What do you all think? Any more quizzes, ideas?

[superdog]

That was interesting mermaid.

It said that I may struggle with some codependent tendencies but may not be rooted in that behaviour. That would suggest to me that my relationship with my h brought about those tendancies but they are not the real me, as in I wasn't always that way. I can see where they might have happened with us, he was very sure to keep my self esteem where it was with the petty criticisms and never complimenting etc etc. making me take responsibility for everything And the list goes on.

Our problems began when my self esteem grew and my confidence was high. That was when bd hit, funny that !

Sd
X

[Mermaid]

Hi SD!
It's an interesting point... our Rs do change us, but I still wonder why we chose that R in the first place...?  As I've said on other posts, we choose our partners because of the way they complete our inner needs/ perceptions.

One theory is that we build our expectations based on our (subconscious) shadow self, that is, our inner idea of masculinity to complete our femininity. This masculine ideal (animus) is a composite learned from our key male relationships earlier in life, and it completes our own inner anima (and the opposite for males). So we look for relationships that seem to fit, but they are essentially a projection of our desires.  It's not by chance that we find our partner has characteristics of other important males, as well as ideas of what they should be. The idea of being complete in ourselves is to find our inner animus. We can improve our external relationships by realising that they don't complete us, but they can be mutually supporting.

The other interesting point is that our changing behaviour can trigger their crisis... as we don't play their game, the relationship balance is changed.

In my case, I often refused to play his game, meaning we were often fighting as I refused to accept his dominance/ unfairness. But I think what triggered H was not my behaviour, but external stress. He was suffering from burnout syndrome, and that led him to question everything, looking for meaning.

[superdog]

Great response mermaid, makes perfect sense.

If my h took the same test and was willing to answer honestly, he would score very highly for codependency. My change and growth over the years must have panicked him and nearly losing me altogether after the children's birth tipped that dependence and showed his weaknesses full on to him.

I have analysed this in the past 5 years and every stressful event was always followed by some push me away behaviour. He had EA at 25 right after we moved in together and we had a personal issue to deal with. He blamed me then too. Hmm a little pattern emerging.

I do no think that I am co dependent as a person, I don't recognise myself in the descriptions, but I agree that one or two of the things on the list are me, but due to my personality type.

It's all very interesting to have a good old poke around at yourself isn't it.

Sd
X

[Mermaid]

It's all very interesting to have a good old poke around at yourself isn't it.

You're very good at it, very honest, not unkind with yourself.... And make the changes. IMHO. 

[scooby]

Very interesting conversation. It is good that we are all learning to better ourselves.

[superdog]

Why thank you Mermaid. 

Sd
X