[Albatross]

I think what RCR says is that and MLCer can show signs of disorders, not that they suffer from any (except depression that is a mood disorder).

Agree, that is written in that my long post. They look like have PD because of long and in time acute depression which become psychoneurosis, then psychosis and if they go out MLC then gradually that start to diminish.

Depression is not, IMO, a reaction. Depression, coupled with stress, is the cause of MLC.

If You carefully read my post You can see that I wrote same. Their persona does not work anymore with outer world. Means coping mechanisms which they use does not work anymore. So, they going into depression. Then they try to get out of depression changing something, unfortunately they start to use maladaptive coping mechanisms instead changing self. That leads in deeper depression, psychoneurosis and how they sink in time they can hit psychosis and their look at the world change FOG, they start to regress = use more primitive defense mechanisms. They are in long chronic depression, which finally hit acute depression. So, then escape and avoid start because they did not solve inner problems which are since childhood, they cannot change, they wanna world accommodate to them.

MLCers external life works fine. Or, at least, several of them can lead what outsiders would consider a normal external life. It is just that they go and live that life with someone else.

I can't agree with that, MLCers 4 pillars are God, Body, Spouse, Job. My wife align with all 4. They just must function, but under persona - mask. They are under covert depression. They wanna change all 4 pillars but they haven't energy and will to do it that make them even more angrier. Ie means, Body = plastic surgery, running, gym, teenager cloths. God, stop to be religious and accuse God for their misery. They get fired from job because they cannot function well in it. My wife change 4 jobs since she go in MLC. Lost interest, low motivation, stubbornness and so on. Spouse is to blame because their life sux and who to blame = SO. My W in beginning blame self = Antihero. When we start to fight about her EA, then she blame me.

So, they are miserable in all 4 pillars, but they have to work and function in life under mask, but they are covertly depressed.

[PatienceGalore]

If they seek therapy, us that a sign they acknowledge their depression or that they acknowledge the spouse is not responsible for their turmoil, they are? Is that how they start their journey out of MLC?

[Albatross]

If they seek therapy, us that a sign they acknowledge their depression or that they acknowledge the spouse is not responsible for their turmoil, they are? Is that how they start their journey out of MLC?

My personal opinion is that depression is just consequence of MLC, and antidepressants can help (more clarity) but also can prolong MLC because antidepressants cure consequences nor real cause. But that is just me.

[PatienceGalore]

He is not taking medication and I know he won't...he hates medicine, the most he will do is take vitamins!!! I trust in this process, and I really hope this man can get into my H's brain and start clearing the cobwebs of his childhood. He is so messed up, we can all see it, and I think he may just be starting to see that himself...that is why I have hope my marriage may eventually come back, but as always, there is no certainty and I have to let him do all on his own...knowing him, he will not ask me to participate in this, but I am interested to see changes....

[rosemary129]

I can't agree with that, MLCers 4 pillars are God, Body, Spouse, Job. My wife align with all 4. They just must function, but under persona - mask. They are under covert depression. They wanna change all 4 pillars but they haven't energy and will to do it that make them even more angrier. Ie means, Body = plastic surgery, running, gym, teenager cloths. God, stop to be religious and accuse God for their misery. They get fired from job because they cannot function well in it. My wife change 4 jobs since she go in MLC. Lost interest, low motivation, stubbornness and so on. Spouse is to blame because their life sux and who to blame = SO. My W in beginning blame self = Antihero. When we start to fight about her EA, then she blame me.

So, they are miserable in all 4 pillars, but they have to work and function in life under mask, but they are covertly depressed.

That's interesting! My H was highly developed in the Job area , but he spend so little time in God, Body & Spouse in the past 10 years . He secured his identity in his job, found personal satisfaction through position & success. But when he found that his company had a possibility to lay off , he was so scared & started all the maladaptive copings: dating, exercises , sex .... . He once told me that he can't see his future , he had no true friends , he didn't have a sense of belonging in our family. He said he was thinking of finding a new woman to start again but he then questioned himself " What is the purpose of a family ? " " I don't know whether I still love you and the kids or not ? " It's just very hard to understand their way of thinking in the MLC tunnel . 

[Albatross]

That's interesting! My H was highly developed in the Job area , but he spend so little time in God, Body & Spouse in the past 10 years . He secured his identity in his job, found personal satisfaction through position & success. But when he found that his company had a possibility to lay off , he was so scared & started all the maladaptive copings: dating, exercises , sex .... . He once told me that he can't see his future , he had no true friends , he didn't have a sense of belonging in our family. He said he was thinking of finding a new woman to start again but he then questioned himself " What is the purpose of a family ? " " I don't know whether I still love you and the kids or not ? " It's just very hard to understand their way of thinking in the MLC tunnel .

Yea, they often become workaholic and on that way keep persona identifying self trough job. To your spouse left only one pillar and when it collapse that MLC take full blown.

Mine first reject God and Body or reversal and then jobs, several of them, then spouse, then finally current job. She is now in full blown REPLAY, but seems that not help anymore, hopefully she will end soon bloody replay.

[PatienceGalore]

I hope so for you too! M H is a total workaholic and said he found that he was in control and felt worthwhile when in work, whereas when not in work he felt he was not! Is that Replay???

[rosemary129]

For my own midlife transition, I tried to readjust the time for job , taking care of children & myself . In my heart , I knew I was not happy ,depressive also in my 35.   I finally quit a full time stressful job & changed to a part-time one, I have a more balanced life . I slowed down my life & lived a more simplified life . Of course , I need to sacrificed a very prosperous job and high position, but it's worthy of the choice .
So MLC may be good if they can pass through & make positive changes but they just go to the wrong ways & try to run away from the path. 

[PatienceGalore]

Was there anything that could have been said to you to make it easier and for you to realise that damage was being caused? Not trying to say that that was your situation, but I'm trying to project to my H, and see if something could be said to help? I know he is on his journey, but I am interested to hear if he could be helped?

[Breakingthecycle]

H has always worked hard, I think that comes from being self-employed, but he is now saying that he is going to work all the hours he can for the next three years.  He has also created more work fixing up an old truck and rebuilding the engine for his 'spare' non driving time. 

Last year he was going to work all week and ride his bike at weekends but OW has decided not to ride much now so I think the lure for bike riding isn't quite as strong!

Can they actually work themselves into the ground?