[Searching4Answers]

If MLC is about regressing for some old issues from childhood, how do ow/OM figure? Have all these mlcers had something that happened that makes them think they need someone new? They all pick someone who is much younger than they are. Is there any to help them progress through the tunnel, as to help them realize they are adults and not a 25 year old looking for a lost love.

Dreamer,

I believe that the MLCer needs the OW/OM because they are new, there is no history. A new relationship is typically non-judgemental which is what the MLCer needs: not to be judged. The MLCer can try out their new self without fear because the new OW/OM doesn't know the difference. I also don't believe that they are looking for love maybe a do over to right a wrong but love doesn't have anything to do with it. 

[31andcounting]

Searching4~ you might very well be right!!    My H left 25 years ago..walked out on myself and our 2 babies.  I feel it may have been a 1/4 life crisis that stemmed from child hood issues.  But long story short, now this MLC has been going on for 3 years BD  a few years prior and we are reconnecting and probably reconciling now ( still hard:) )  Anyway we had a "blip" over the weekend and what came out of his mouth was monster and H stated he feels so guilty and has felt so guilty for so long! i answered with "probably for at least 25 years (indicating the time he left) and he answered YES!  The last OW(#2 or #3 or who knows) he had EA with was going through marital issues and her H left and they were divorcing.  I feel he was trying to step in and save her and her babies...she is the same age we were during the time he left me.........  He was trying to make up for walking away all those years ago (in his own mind)  No way of really knowing for sure I guess.
31

[Breakingthecycle]

Wow! that explains why this takes so loooonnnng! My h does refuse to change anything, and believes he has gotten to the bottom of the issues between he and I and there is no point in changing anything....doesn't even believe what I have done as changes is for real....Yep, that would fit. But my point, is if they don't reach that point, then they can stay there for ever? my H comes from a stubborn family anyway, and they are not self aware, and now he says he does not need to see the therapist anymore...hence my chances of him coming back seem to be getting smaller!!!

You said something interesting here.  Your H doesn't believe that your changes are real.....the odd thing is that one thing they have to believe is that our changes are real.  They have to learn to trust us.  In their sickened mind they believe and are hurt by what they believe is our betrayal of them and they don't trust us.  That is why they don't trust our changes especially if recent.  The only thing that can help with that is TIME.  Once they start believing our changes are real they do slowly look at themselves.  It isn't fair but they are the perceived "victims", its why they put the blame on us.  It isn't logical or anything but it is very real to them.  I think that is why as we focus on our self improvement, we become more self aware we radiate those vibes.  As we let go of them, the pressure to keep their defenses up comes off and they become more open and trusting towards us.  Its why the illogical step of letting go is so very effective with them.  Besides letting go allows us to heal.

This struck a cord with me.  I know I have changed a great deal in the past year or so.  I am getting out and doing things that I have never done.  H repeatedly says he can see that I have changed but he doesn't know if I have changed because I want to or because I feel I have to.  I realise that only time will show him (arghh, that time thing again!), but I need to work on the detaching and letting go.

[PatienceGalore]

Continuing on with the trust issue....it came back to me recently that H told me that he had seen changes and appreciated them, but he said it was not right I was changing for HIM. I did reply it was for ME (though early on it was def for him, I tried to be what he wanted out of blind fear and panic).
It is my MIL who reported to me that H said he did not believe or trust any change was for real and that things would go back to the way they were...well that was like a red flag to a bul....I tend to rise to challenges, especially when my MIL is concerned!!!
So I listed all the tings H said about me: control, pursue, fixer, initiator, not listening, blablabla..some are valid and I decided: change, for me, because if it's H or someone else or even my children, I can improve and stop certain habits.
My problem, is H, is no longer here, so how do MLCers see changes when they are not there....any views on that?

[Snowdrop]

PG  When I saw H the time before last, I was in tears as he left, and I can picture him walking through the front door and I was sobbing.

When I saw him last week, we smiled , we hugged , and I walked away to go and wait while he ate with the kids.  When they were done, I didn't go back to see him in the restaurant, I met the kids and even though he was inside, I didn't go, nor did I text him or call.  We left and went home, all relieved it was done, and there he was, left sitting alone in the restaurant, and we were on our way as if he didn't even exist.

As well, I used to email him once in a while about needing money for bills.  I don't even do that now as I was sick of begging.  There is zero communication now, even with children, and mainly because he doesn't want to pay a penny, but mostly, he has zero interest.  That being said, I do not contact him, and how funny that when he left and became Mr. Silent, that is exactly how we are treating him now as we've had so much pain, but we are moving forward bit by bit, and we have nothing to do with him.

[PatienceGalore]

But do you want him back?

[Snowdrop]

PG - Nope!  Not as he is, that's for sure.  He is not the man we cried for and missed after he left.  That man has gone.  Who he will become, who knows, and if he will want to come home, who knows that either.  If and when that happens, I will see then, but until that time, I will live my life and take care of our children.

I would rather be alone that with the man he has become.  As well, I'm tired of it being about him, and helping him, and fixing him, and worrying about him.  Enough.

[FindingJoJo]

But do you want him back?

PG - do you want him back the way he is or do you want the complete man back?  I want my spouse back but I want the better version that will emerge when he has finished baking.  Until then I want a better me so I focus on letting him bake, knowing he is in MLC and making me who I want to be.  I do know that broken me and broken him won't a healthy relationship make.  We have to heal and become strong enough to withstand the drama that will come when they realize they messed up and come home, because they won't be fully baked.  But if we become all we can be we are ready for that time and we will decide if it is right for us to have them back or not.

[Albatross]

Albatross -
your post prompted me to look up the definition of neurosis.  Jung's theory and Horney's theory are listed here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurosis.  Interesting. 

To summarize in my own words, it is the idealistic view of self and circumstances, etc and pursuit thereof via compulsion / impulse in contrast to a realistic perception of the same.  Is that close?

You summarized it great IMO.

Karen Horney summarize it in this sentence:
"In essence, neurosis is a distorted way of looking at the world and at oneself, determined by compulsive needs rather than by a genuine interest in the world as it is."

Bold words are heavy. They see subjectively a way different world from objective. Also have distorter view of self. Yea they have needs = what they think to make them happy. Like addicts, they need fuel to operate.

[Albatross]

Why MLCers feel EMPTY ? Because their persona was TICK and rest of ego deflated. So, releasing bigger part of own ego as worthless is some kind of suicide. Such kind of people strongly identify with persona = like whole Self, which is not true. So, he experience somehow as own death, emptiness. He have now tick persona which is worthless and deflated weak rest of ego. Imagine that ? Also usually with tick persona goes bigger distance between persona and rest of ego in therm of thinking. ie one thinks that he is persona, ego interface to the world.

One thinks that he is Self = Ego. Persona is tick, greater then rest of Ego. People who have small differences persona - rest of Ego and they are aware of Shadow and living in balance Shadow - Light, ie. Ego - Subconsciousness they are fully realized people. They show feelings, they are genuine, unique, appear to others more alive, spontaneous, assertive even charismatic. In other hand people who have low self esteem, conflict avoiders, people who does not express feelings, co-dependent and so on, have big difference between Persona and rest of Ego. So, we can talk about true self = Rest of Ego and false self = Persona. So, they actually live double life, showing trough Persona false self. And they aren't happy about self, they avoid confrontations because of fear of abandoning or other issues, means they have all the time negative feelings which then goes to the Shadow. Suppressing bad emotions, on that way build up negative energy in Shadow.
So, You have total imbalance, big Shadow, weak rest of the Ego depleted - tiny, false tick Persona. Such people identify Self with rest of Ego. Painful ? Yes. They have a lot repressed bad feelings, bad memories.

That can operate when You are younger, You have more life energy (psychic energy - Libido), also Shadow is lower in beginnings, but in time Shadow build up. And after dissolution of persona bigger part of Ego died, one lost identity, feel empty. They do not know who they are anymore. They believe that they are Ego minus Persona. That is small depleted, weak. Very scary. It is like You have two conciseness, two very different conciseness people in one. After dissolution of persona, remain weak one with low self esteem, pathetic one, scared one.

From one side You have big Shadow and form another side phoney Persona = Mask. Tiny weak rest of Ego is in the middle and one believe that part is HE. He is between hammer and anvil...