[toomanytearss]

We are all different so our responses and communication will be different.  I'm not good at truth darts.  I've tried, but it seems others are much more talented than me.

The standard "I'm sorry you feel that way" is what I use when I want to rip his face off.  Keeps me under control and lets him have to think.

But for me, which I know is not the right way, I tend to be a bit more to the point with my h.  Just here and there when the opportunity presents itself.  I make it very quick, dart right in there, say it or ask it and then quick let it go and move on.  Not really a truth dart, just a question I want answered.  H gets annoyed but it's so quick that he doesn't monster.  He does pout though.  LOL

It's hard for me to be any other way.  And sometimes it works, but the pouting can last a long time.  Depends on what the subject matter was. 

[superdog]

I have put up with my mlcer for 5 years now and all I can say is that in that time I have tried every communication approach known to man.

NOTHING works!!! Because that's what we want, for something to WORK.  What that actually means is that we are still trying to fix, to help, to be involved.  All that has to stop.

I have stopped communicating anything with my h now because nothing works. I tell him what I have to and that's that. I say good morning and hello and that's that. He tells me nothing either. He doesn't share, neither do I, that's how it works.

When he is ready to behave like an adult I will listen, not before.

Just leave them to it.

Sd
X

[Songanddance]

Just leave them to it.

Absolutely SD and as Stayed would say - "get the hell out of their way; they are bats**t crazy!"

However it's always useful to have an arsenal of words and neutral comments as well as truth darts - just in case.

But for me, which I know is not the right way, I tend to be a bit more to the point with my h.  Just here and there when the opportunity presents itself.  I make it very quick, dart right in there, say it or ask it and then quick let it go and move on.  Not really a truth dart, just a question I want answered. 

TMT - truth darts are pointed comments applicable to that particular moment in time and like every thing else you learn here - you develop your own darts.  You are probably doing it without realising it.  A truth dart is a shot across the MLCers bows to just remind him that he is the one who has created this mess and he will have to face up to the consequences.  Truth darts give them thinky time. Truth darts are the truth of the situation not  clever comments to prove that you are right and he is wrong. Truth darts are more effective delivered in a neutral tone too.

This is part of your growth BTW TMT, you have to grow too, as well as your MLCer.

[LearningIamOk]

The dialogue, in my opinion, is not to get them to behave in a certain way. Instead, I was hoping to see things along the line of making a point that would stop whatever behavior they were presenting at the moment. A comeback of some sort so that the nonsense they spew is cut short. Or a statement about how something affects the LBS without directly blaming the MLCer.

Anjae, I used H&F's comment because I thought it was a unique approach to one facet of MLC. As I stated, I don't think that it will be helpful to all cases, but it seemed effective for her and I just wanted to put it out there for anyone else to use. I agree with you that sometimes not communicating is the way to go, but if you are, I wanted some "jewels" at the ready. Kind of like a dictionary for MLC speak. When MLCer says______, you thumb thru the "dictionary" for a diplomatic response.

[limitless]

Learning,

I know that you already know this.....I've spent more than a few years trying to think of some words....something to say....that would make ANY difference.

I came up with goose eggs. 

I think the best response....is not to respond.

I guess time will tell if my "strategy" works?  (It isn't a strategy, by the way.  Just a way for me to keep my sanity....and that is to opt out and leave him to figure out his own life.

Situations are different and some (a few?) MLCers may be able to be reached by the right words.  I just think for the one that is deep, deep, deep in his MLC?  There isn't a thing the LBS can say that will make the difference.

JMHO,

L

[Anjae]

Instead, I was hoping to see things along the line of making a point that would stop whatever behavior they were presenting at the moment. A comeback of some sort so that the nonsense they spew is cut short. Or a statement about how something affects the LBS without directly blaming the MLCer.

I have not been around any direct behaviour of my MLCer since May 2007. From BD, October 2006, to May 2007 I was in shock mode, everything was a mess, I had no idea what I was dealing with. Had none clever thing to say or do at that point.

Then there were many years when we did not speak at all (just an email if necessary). In 2011 I needed to speak on the phone with Mr J (lagal/finances. He was mad monster. 2012 I spoke with him several times on the phone (same reasons), but this time told him I was tired because of looking after my grandmother. He did not monsters and listened. Did it change a thing? No.

He is still in Replay, he is still running to court with his silly cases. He is one of those who is too deep in the tunnel to really listen, but, at least he has not repeated the being monster or rude on the phone. I have nor speak with him in well over a year or a year and a half. I have nothing to say.

[adult condor]

Hi all, I am still relatively new here but here are the things that seem to be working or have been helpful.

Very early, when I first found out about OG/W just after BD, I said "she must be something really special" H has said multiple times that that really cut deep because I would "win" on just about every point. It was helpful for me to assess where H was at, in that he doesn't seem to feel like he deserves me and has affaired down as a way of seeking equity in his personal relationship. Of course, we all know that this is kooky logic and only brings him further into the abyss.

Another thing that seemed to shift his negative actions was to use something from our past, during the days of courting, we used to write each other lovely packaged cryptic letters. I chose to write one to him, it was very positive and focused on his quality attributes as well as a few impressionable moments from our relationship. This was definitely a dodgy move. My H is very broken and his self esteem is totally down the toilette. In other cases I don't think this would be helpful, but for us it helped to pull him out of a blaming mindset and started to remind him that I am not the enemy and that we did share a beautiful past. I slipped it into a book of his and he got to read it on the metro while traveling to work (where he would likely see the OG/W which was intentional). He said later that it really hit a nerve.

Generally, it seems to help my H to not put any pressure on him. The more I act in opposition to what he expects or thinks he deserves the closer he steps towards reconciliation. Again, I am still very early in this so I am likely up for some much rougher water. Time will tell.

[superdog]

My h openly admits to not em embedding anything good about me or us. He said to me that he has forgotten everything. I would reckon that all that went during the detachment phased where he told me detaching was easy, all you had to do was think about all the bad things 

One truth dart I used which stung like a bee, was " when you have been habitually lied to by one person like I have, then it would be a very tall order for them to get me to believe a single word that came out their mouth". I didn't say the word YOU, but he said what chance I have got then. I answered none right now actually.

Sd
X

[LearningIamOk]

I think my point is still being missed here. I don't want dialogue that wakes the MLCer up. I want dialogue that shuts the MLCer down when they are making us crazy.

Limitless, you are completely correct that nothing we say or do will change them or their minds. I want to see suggestions, phrases, that will stop them dead in their tracks, leave them with their mouths wide open with nothing coming out. They say such idiotic nonsense, the LBS needs to have at the ready things to say that will put a cork in it.

[in it]

IMHO As weird as this might sound? I think if there might be any chance of saving the marriage or a relationship NC needs to be implemented immediately.

They are looking to gut somebody like a fish and guess who gets it?

It protects you from any abuse and trying to either make sense of what they are saying or listening to the $h!te they spew. Then you haven't got MORE to get passed even though it may take time.

And they (if they remember half of it) don't have to lament about all the horrible things they said. Their behavior is bad enough....

So in essence the relationship is being protected WE have to be the ones to stick to NC.