[Dagolark]

My stepfather was a mlcer who turned to heroin instead of an ow... so I enjoyed the double perks of the depression spiral with all the'warning' behaviour and later the addict behaviour (which is truly very similar to other mlcers).
Do I win a badge? Achievement unlocked:mlc+junkie  combo?

[kikki]

Kikki, pointing out the behaviour may make the MLCer to be less monster, but in my experience it will no change anything. Not until they are ready to own their responsibility. The MLCer will deny and deny and deny they are using the tactics they are.

But if they are using tactics, and aware of it, that leaves us with the problem that they know what they are doing. And if they know exactly what they are doing, there really is no excuse whatsoever for their behaviour.

This if often a matter of debate here in the board, is the MLCer fully aware or is it not? How aware, and how capable of stopping their behaviour is an addict? If we see MLC similar to addiction, do we go for they can stop it whenever they want, or for only when they are capable of owning it and deal with the responsibility?

I still don't know which lean for. For me they clearly suffered some hormonal/brain alteration but how much do they carry on with their behaviour simply because they can afford it in every way? Really do not know.

How effective is dialogue with an addict? Zero? Or do some things stick and are latter processed?

No idea what the answer to all of this is. 
I obviously struck my MLCer on a 'softer' day - and whether it was synchronicity or whether it was pointing out his manipulation tactics today (which he vehemently denied) but coincided with him talking to me on the phone for an hour today about business things that we needed to discuss and which he had been avoiding discussing for months.

My MLCer obviously wanted to cling today, and we also had a bevy of emails back and forth, after our telephone conversation.

I don't expect any of this to change the course of his crisis, he's still very deluded - whether that is deliberate, or something else, I just don't know - but it helped me today in getting him to communicate when he had been running for the hills.

[nah]

Due to my MLCer being mostly on the vanisher side of the spectrum, I only have stories of others-

"P" (the mlcer) and "T" (the lbs) were married for about 10-12 years and had a small son.  "P" decided that she was unhappy, moved out and divorced "T".  It happened quick due to "P" worked for a divorce lawyer and basically gave "T" everything so she could escape fast.  (Of course, my H was furious and called her all kinds of names.)

At the final divorce hearing "T" gave "P" a letter saying, "This is your time.  Nothing is holding you back from doing great things.  I just want you to be happy".  "P" told me that she went home that day and cried her eyes out.  It took about 18 months after that when she started having second thoughts.

They are now remarried.

She told me she just couldn't shake the words in that letter.  She still gets choked up at how unselfish and caring her H was during her worse times.

[Dagolark]

All these people are definitely better than me... lol. When I think of a possible confrontation with my X, it's mostly full of me being ice cold showering him with disdain and despisement.

[Thunder]

I've, occasionally, thrown a truth dart.

One I remember was, we were watching a movie where a couple were taking their vows, my X (kiddingly) said..."There's the problem..you never said "obey."

I came back with.."What difference does it make, you promised til death us do part?"

He never said another word.  : )

[toomanytearss]

Oh Thunder - How I wish I was as quick witted as you.  I only things of these things afterward.  So annoying.

[Thunder]

Oh I'm not quick TMT.  It always think about what I should say afterwards.  It was just one good shot.  lol

I had a few other times but I can't remember them now.  I'll have to think back.  : )

I know so often my X would make some silly remarks like..."Boy, your bf must be very patient to allow you to see me so often."  (fishing?)
At first I would say things like..."Nope, no bf here"....now I just say.."Yes, he is very patient."

Let him wonder.  o: )

[Anjae]

Kikki, that type of communication, like a business one, or requesting Mr J for something, like two years ago for the invoice of my original mobile (that come with the sim card), works. Or at times it works. He did went looking for the invoice, contacted the accountant, asked SIL if she had a case with documents that were ours, then texted me back.

However it is not fluid, it does not always works. In the past I had asked him to look for some of my books. He did, found them, send the ones I was after at the time. They were a couple. Later I asked for the bulk plus my family belongings. He never send them and his answer for my family things was “in due time”. I asked him if almost 8 years were not enough time and told him my grandmother does not have time, I want the things she gave me.

What happened? Nothing. He just changed from I have nothing that is ours to “in due time”. To be fair, I think mine is one of those that if I had divorced him right after BD his crisis would had been shorter. No more need for him to keep trying to nag me. Or maybe given the world he got himself into the crisis would be as longer. But my life would have been very different, especially money wise, if I had divorced him on the spot. The biggest mistake of my life was to think OW1 was a brief affair and not run into a lawyer as soon as she was made public.

[Songanddance]

know so often my X would make some silly remarks like..."Boy, your bf must be very patient to allow you to see me so often."  (fishing?)

Oh how I recognise that comment. Almost playground mentality. I too used to brush it off with a don't be silly - you're my BF . Now I just say UHUH!  Perfectly non committal>

[Anjae]

The boyfriend/girfriend thing is the MLCer fishing.  UHUH! is the perfect reply to that.