[paradigmshift]

Today he has no regrets.  He is on very good terms with his XW and her partner as well as his daughters.  He has found someone else to share his life with, someone more suited to the path he is taking as a practicing Buddhist.

This is the reason why I have decided to move on with my life. If he comes back before I have then we'll see if we can get past the hurt, but I am excited to move on to a new life with perhaps a new man. I never knew if my relationship with my ex is how a relationship should be. I had nothing to compare it with. As my friend once told me, she thought her first boyfriend was good to her until she met the second one.

[a]

Hi All

Just to elaborate J has no regrets because of who he has become and believes this path led him to a life filled with joy and peace.  Of course he is very sorry for the pain he caused his wife and daughters.  He has made a heartfelt apology to his family and he acknowledges if he had been aware of his actions at the time he certainly would not have chosen this path. 

As a Buddhist he has taken the path of do no harm which entails right thinking and right doing.  However this is a path he arrived at, after having caused a lot of damage - he is very aware of this and what he is responsible for.  By the same token he has made peace with his XW and daughter's, this family is healed and they seem to have moved past the anger that we still hold on to.  I think its because J has made every effort to apologise and make right his wrongs.

This is a unique situation and not typical of most MLCers - I think. That's why I said that J has a courageousness I do not see in most people including myself.  I do not think my XH will ever apologise for what he has done, the fact that he has been unwilling to face me since BD shows his lack of remorse and his need to create the illusion that all is well and that he didn't cause that much damage or if he is aware of the damage he has soften the idea by believing that it was the best for all concerned.

I have absolutely no expectations that XH will ever face me and apologise.  He has moved on with his life and OW is his new life even though in the beginning he cheated on her like J did to his OW.  I do not believe XH is no longer cheating on OW today - I think fear of being alone may be the reason or maybe this is not a MLC and XH found someone better suited to who he is.  I will never know the truth and I realise that J's experiences are not necessarily my XH's experience.

J has really taught me a lot about acceptance and that my life has value and that one day I will be in a place where I can love XH without expectation and truly wish him well.  J says the day I reach that point I will have finally found acceptance and the ultimate freedom - peace.

So may we all find that elusive state of forgiveness that still seems to evade us as we vacillate between compassion and anger for our XH's.

take care
moment

[kikki]

As a Buddhist he has taken the path of do no harm which entails right thinking and right doing.  However this is a path he arrived at, after having caused a lot of damage - he is very aware of this and what he is responsible for.  By the same token he has made peace with his XW and daughter's, this family is healed and they seem to have moved past the anger that we still hold on to.  I think its because J has made every effort to apologise and make right his wrongs.

Thanks for coming back to clarify, moment.
I think that would be hugely different.  If any of our MLCers also made every effort to apologise and right their wrongs, I am sure it would shift something in us.
It must be one of the hardest things in the world to do, without that. 
Although we all know we need to aim for that place, for our own sakes.

[paradigmshift]

I have forgiven my ex but the hurt still remains. I am still on antidepressants. I am trying to work on the business where he left off, but that is proving to be extremely difficult as it is not in my field of expertise and he never allowed me to get involved so I hardly know anything about it. I just want to make sure that he has fewer regrets when he comes out of the crisis (he let the business go to $hit and fired all the employees and ruined relationships with some clients).

I understand that those whose marriage had been wonderful would want to stand 100%, but there were incompatibility issues between my ex and I. I want the best for him despite what he had done and if he finds someone which makes the relationship a vacation instead of an ongoing battle because they are more equally yoked, I would be very very happy for him. I know he loved me very very much and so did I, maybe a little too much. He wanted to give up on the relationship so many times it is impossible to count, but I held on like armageddon. I want to be kinder to myself now, to not wait for him faithfully when he might not ever return. But if he does, at least something, if not someone, would still be waiting for him.

[serenity]

I really believe it doesn't matter what we do or how we behave towards our H's.

I tried to stop my H's behaviour and stop him wrecking our life. He moved out quickly and got a new home. He's been gone over 4 years. He's mostly been a boomerang, at times clinging and now we've entered yet another new phase mostly at my instigation as I told him I no longer wished to hear from him as he's worse than ever at this present time!

I've tried to be understanding, compassionate and help him. He's stayed with me every w/e for the last year BUT none of it makes any difference or changes anything. He STILL blames me and still can't forgive me!!!

X

[stayed]

Nodding here, too.  And I would love to be enlightened enough to say that I love my husband so much, that if this is what it takes for his "spiritual journey" - the sacrifice of everything I hold dear - I would gladly give it for him to be whole.  But frankly, it just makes me want to gag.  If this guy is on some Buddhist retreat blowing about how he wouldn't trade back every one night stand just for one day of the 6 years he missed with his daughters, because it made him some sort of great man now, then to hell with that.  Ego still fully engaged!  I hope part two has something acknowledging his wife's struggle.  Because honestly - it still sounds his remorse over the loss of his family is all about him.  Do they every FULLY get it?!  Of are we, in the end, just so worn down, there's no fight left in us? 

I know it seems somehow wonderful to see this man, in the end, choose his wife as his healer.  But what has she gone through in the meantime?  What had to be destroyed to make her the woman who had 'moved on'?  I'm just really questioning it all.  And I still have no doubt that his tipping point, besides the chemical effects of the depression all of those life events put him in, was probably treatable low T given his age.  But he DID make choices.  This isn't an amnesia fog.  It really makes me think about what and who exactly I'm standing for, even in the best case scenario.

Just about shook my head off while nodding to EVERY SINGLE WORD OF THIS!  I too want to hear his wife and daughter's story. I think children and spouses that move on, do forgive, quite easily.  Once the pain has stopped, why not forgive, especially if you found somebody to share your life quite happily with. 

I'm really glad he has been able to "forgive" himself, accept the pain he dished out and now "seemingly" enjoys his new found "spirituality" and life. 

As for boundaries.  Anything that prevents the LBS from constantly picking the scab off their wound and revving up their EXPECTATION LEVELS... is a good thing.  Every LBS has mentioned that when they WITHDRAW from their MLCer, he/she starts pursing, even you have noticed that Xyz.  Why do you think that is?  Our MLCer's are used to our unconditional love, attention and support, when we withdraw that... THEY NOTICE! 

Now this isn't some game (although it could easily become that if we were to allow it).  Allowing yourself to hurt and hurt and hurt, cannot be a good thing. LEARNT HELPLESSNESS, springs to mind!  You might say, "you can't help it", I beg to differ, YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE who can help it.  If you were in pain, physical pain, you would go to your doctor and find out what was causing it.  You would do whatever you had to do to rid yourself of that pain... such as a knee or hip replacement/physio/painkillers.  Unless, you (LBS) suffers from depression/bi-polar/mental disorder, then you can control your mental outlook.   

Boundaries are for ourselves.  If they help in ANYWAY to bring the MLCer out of the crisis... great... BONUS even!!!  The truth is, it doesn't matter as the LBS heals faster and better when they take control over their personal WELL BEING!

Anjae, we don't know what you did or didn't do.  Your h hardly ever comes near you, not sure what boundaries you could impose, perhaps just get that divorce you keep talking about and be done with him.  What I don't understand is why you are still in so much pain.  What are you doing for yourself to over come and get on with your life. To me, you are hurting just as much as the first time I read your post.  Are you suffering from depression? 

I am not trying to be argumentative and quarrelsome.  This information is extremely helpful and confirms what we all thought we knew about MLC, BUT, what does it changer for the LBSer, if anything?  What I take from this mans disclosures is more "proof" that the LBS, has to get on with their life.  If the MLCer exits the crisis, wonderful.  Great.  His wife got the "closure" many of us claim we are looking for.  To know that the MLCer truly REGRETS tossing the spouse and family out the window and pursue a life of raging hormones and debauchery.   Nice to know, we weren't as "worthless" as we felt, at the time. 

I wonder how much satisfaction that "apology/recognition" from the MLCer, really provides the LBSer?  Again, I would love to hear from this man's wife and daughters.  That would be some interesting reading, at least for me it would be.  Somehow, we have once again, made this ALL ABOUT THE MLCer!!!  Only one side of the story.  Mmmmmmmmm, story of our lives eh?

Hugs Stayed

[Albatross]

Really loving unconditionally self, other people, wold, nature, life haven't nothing with enabling, neither expectations in my opinion. One should reach inner balance, internal happiness, peace with self and world which is not so easy to achieve. If and when one come to that place state of mind nothing matters anymore because ones libido flow from soul to the world or if You like it, one become full of love which then radiate to the space, people, nature.

We all know that You can't make someone to be different, neither self. Whatever LBS do or not do, I strongly believe will not have any impact on MLCer crisis, neither prolonging, shortening. If they fall you can't save them, only they can do if they have knowledge, wisdom, life energy and so on.

Their path is their own, after all we all are born alone, live alone and will die alone it is natural.

[a]

Hi Ready2transform and Stayed

There is nothing I can say about J that would move you past your pain and anger.  You seem to be angry that J has moved on and that his XW and daughters are holding onto pain but that is your perception.  I have met J's XW and we had a long chat.  In short I remember one of the things she said was that when J had come out of his crisis and started his journey of healing he desperately wanted to reconcile, but she had moved on - it was her choice not to reconcile, because in spite of the pain and the hurt she experienced, she also fell in love with someone else, someone that her daughter's adore. They have been together now for 7+ years and from what J says it is a healthy loving relationship and his daughters have the best of both world a loving mom and two dads that spoil them.

She also said and I am paraphrasing something like - she was able to truly forgive J because of who he was trying to become - she could see he had become a much better human being than he was when they were married. 

I truly believe that J's XW is happy she has moved past the pain of what has happened and maybe this is what we need to do before we can truly forgive not "forgive". Which lets face it to "forgive" lacks sincerity and maybe is done with a hidden agenda.

Whatever we do I have come to realise must be done with integrity.  I know when I was still in contact with XH I would be kind and express compassion but it was not sincere because after every contact I would feel the pain and the anger once again.  I was being kind because I so desperately wanted H back I was using kindness as a tool of manipulation. 

Today I have no contact with XH, it was at my request about a year ago because I knew that until I could relate to XH with sincerity I was simply hurting myself by denying what I truly felt.  Which in most circumstances was anger and a deep desire to take my revenge (I have evidence I could have sent OW of XH cheating) plus I have crude photo's OW used to entice XH away from our marriage.  I thought of many scenarios were I could use this information to exact my revenge to hurt XH and OW as much as possible.  I never did but boy did I come close on several occasions. 

It was J that made me feel it was okay to express this dark side of myself.  No-one was expecting me to be the epitome of grace when I felt the opposite.  It was a pressure I was placing on myself for various reasons one of which was because I wanted XH to see what a good person I was and maybe that would encourage him to come back.

At the end of the day until we have processed our darkest thoughts and feelings we are still bound to the MLCer, we are the ones making it all about the MLCer.  J's XW may actually have done the right thing.  She did not at the time read up on MLC as she was not as concerned as we are trying to figure out the why's, she simply mourned the loss of her H, processed her pain and went into counselling.  She made herself the focus, she accepted Xh's decision that the M was over.  She also did not spend a lot of time hoping for reconciliation and made every effort to GAL which she did.

Maybe we need to look at how we are processing things maybe in our search for answers and guarantees we are making our journey that much longer.

I hope this has not offended anyone - it is said with the best of intentions.

take care
moment

[stayed]

Good points there moment!  Lot's of food for thought and I am certainly more then willing to examine my reaction to this story.  I am pleased that the entire family all ended up happier then they probably would have been if they had stayed together.  His xw if a very generous woman, for sure.  I can only assume that if you are fortunate enough to run across a new partner that makes you happier then you ever were, then that would help as well.  I think though, it should be noted that J's Xw and new partner have ONLY been together 7 years, most of us were still very happily married at that point in our marriages to our MLCer's.

I will read again what you have written and give it more thought. Thank you for posting this.

Yours Stayed

[Thunder]

This whole discussion is so helpful.  So many good points brought up.

It made me wonder if what I'm doing is delaying my X's exit from the tunnel.
I see him all the time and we do a lot together.  I only went nc once in all this.  It lasted a couple of weeks, then he contacted me and we've been together ever since.

I guess it has a lot to do with him not having an ow and he has almost had no Monster at all.
If there would have been either I doubt we would be seeing each other.

I do see him very slowly coming out of this but still has not, that I can tell, done any inner work on himself.
He has occasionally said he was sorry for something, but no big apology for breaking my heart and divorcing me.
I seriously don't think he feels the hurt he caused me.  If he does he covers it up pretty good.
Even his depression is more about him.

He does show more concern for me and will actively help with a problem I am having.  He will do small things like buy me something when he's shopping.  It will be something thoughtful so I know he made an effort when buying it.
But then there is still the selfishness there, too.

His flirting is gone.  I used to feel awful when I was with him and he would blatantly smile, chat or stare at some woman.  He no longer does that. 

Anyway I guess what I'm trying to say is maybe I shouldn't have continued seeing him.  Maybe I should have left him to himself.  Made him figure things out without me around.  I don't know.
Instead I remained in his life.

You guys are giving me food for thought.

As far as a heartfelt apology?  I think any one of us would welcome that.  It would make healing so much easier.
Even if your friends W did find someone else it must have felt good to her to know he was sincerely sorry.