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Author Topic: Interacting with Your MLCer No Contact II

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Interacting with Your MLCer Re: No Contact II
#20: February 02, 2015, 06:12:02 AM
I must admit the lack of acknowledgeing anything by the ex..Valentines Day, birthdays anniversaires, and Christmas really helped me to get passed any of the holidays.

How can you miss what you never had?

You have to look at it this way. If he proposes to her what is she getting?
More than likely they deserve each other.

YOU deserve better than that! :)
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact II
#21: February 02, 2015, 06:23:54 AM
You're right, she'd be getting a bad-tempered lying cheat!  :) They do deserve each other, I even told my H that OW had done me a favour. Now I need to start believing that statement all of the time. I'm still quite new to this but NC has saved me.  And I do deserve better, you're right. Thank you :)
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Together 23 years, Married 18 years at BD
M 49, H 49
D17
D14
1st BD April 2014 (EA probably PA) left OW May 2014, came back home June 2014, 2nd BD August 2014. Lived with OW1 for 2 years, now with OW2 (half his age).

M
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Re: No Contact II
#22: February 02, 2015, 06:40:12 AM
I hate to change the focus but my concern is the opposite. My wife's OM matches your description of your husband. Very charming initially but after a while people get the sense that something is off. Divorced twice. He had a child from each marriage living with him because ex-wives "didn't want them" but when things were uncomfortable between his 13yo daughter and my wife he sent his daughter off to live with her mother 60 miles away. He's been demoted twice at work but apparently they can't get rid of him because he's the union president. What happens when the OP is a narcissist? Any thoughts?
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Re: No Contact II
#23: February 02, 2015, 07:25:12 AM
Yep.

 If your W or H is dealing with a narssisist (or sociopath) YOU simply ignore the drama and games. Focus on you and get healthy.

 What they will expeirence will more than likely be a discard.

The narssistic cycle is..

win them (their "high")..

put them on a pedestal.( "idealize")..

devalue stage (might take a while..has to get very abusive in some cases)

then discard.

They tend to do this with ANY relationship.

Narccists bring about exactly what they fear most which is abandonment.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact II
#24: February 02, 2015, 07:57:46 AM
And more than likely the postion his ex wives were in were the same as I am.

 He kept his daughter away from the ex by brainwashing her. CONTROL is everything to them. Or it was a money issue so he wouldn't have to pay support.

I'm more than sure it wasn't because their mothers didn't want them.

Now when the 13 year old is no longer convenient? He gets rid of her....he discarded his daughter.

 I hope her mother understand's what she is and was dealing with.
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« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 08:05:41 AM by in it »
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact II
#25: February 02, 2015, 08:13:43 AM
I think this guy is a real piece of work. As you say, he discarded his daughter in order to have a relationship with a married woman. I suspect he wanted his daughter for both of the reasons you mentioned, control and money, plus it's an ego boost because it makes him look like the good dad. I believe he's with my wife because she will be well off financially if we divorce and I've been told he is broke.  I hope my wife figures out what she is dealing with. It sounds like they can inflict a lot of emotional damage and my wife has always been very open and trusting.
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Re: No Contact II
#26: February 02, 2015, 09:14:10 AM
Yep they sure can and that is pretty much ALL any of these OP's are after is money..they know there is going to be a divorce and a settlement.

 Or even if the divorce doesn't happen they will get the high off being the possible cause of it.

Yep makes him look like a "good dad" when that couldn't be further from the truth.

 A healthy person would encourage a relationship between the other parent with a child. Not work on the children to alienate the other parent.

And that's what happened to me before second BD I was too COMPASSIONATE open and trusting. I was wiped out financally and discarded then assualted. And belive it or not it took a lot for me to walk away from it. ::)

That's why everyone says they come back broken ..they go right out there get involved with someone else and they are so sure the person they are with isn't capable of taking advantage of them. They are vulnerable and do not realize it.

That's why LBS'S spending time alone is so important. You cannot just let them back in your life and "fix" it for them. No saving, no enabling. DO NOT FEEL SORRY FOR THEM.

You cannot tell them anything. They have to learn the lesson on their own for them to accept it.
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« Last Edit: February 02, 2015, 09:35:59 AM by in it »
There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact II
#27: February 02, 2015, 01:39:49 PM
Although most may argue the H's or W's are not sociopaths most everyone might be able to relate their current behavior as such.

Found online:


DO NOT BREAK NO CONTACT

WHY BREAKING THE NO CONTACT RULE IS A VERY BAD IDEA AFTER AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP!

I admit, it can be tempting. That pull in your stomach to just speak to your former partner. You want the pain in your heart to go away. You reason with yourself, that if you could just have contact one more time, you can resolve things and the pain will go away. Or perhaps you want to tell the sociopath exactly what you think of him/her.

As tempting as this might be, breaching no contact is not a good idea. The No Contact rule is there for a reason. It is there to allow you space to think and space to grow and heal.  You almost certainly wouldn’t have had space to think whilst in the relationship.

Benefits of No Contact

You retain dignity
You do NOT give your abuser any further information about you (as any information that you do give – can later be manipulated)

You are feeding the addiction to the abuser. You are therefore lengthing your pain.

When you break no contact, even if the contact was good, all that this does, is to start the cycle again. By keeping to No Contact you move forward rather than round in a circle.

The sociopath is NOT your saviour. If you look back, can you not see that they destroyed you and your life? Why give them an opportunity to do this to you again?

You give yourself space to heal, grow and recover

You are weaning yourself off of the deliberate addiction and dependency created by the sociopath

You are forced to focus on you. On recovering your life.

Without the sociopath you will reach out to others.

It hurts – but you will move out of the fog of confusion

YOU ARE FREE!!!

You avoid the pain of the sociopath hurting you some more and prevent them from telling you either how great their new life is without you, or allow them to put you down, or threaten you.

You send a clear message to the sociopath – they no longer have a hold or control over you

What do you expect to achieve by breaking the No Contact rule?

 If you make contact, if you are telling them how you really feel about them, do you think that they will feel bad? They won’t. Instead it will likely inflate their ego how another partner was so ‘in love’ with them, how great they must be that you are still pining after them. It will reinforce in their mind, why you are the one at fault. How their own actions are justified.

Alternative: Keep a journal, or write an email and press save to draft. The outcome is the same for you, in that you get your feelings out. The damage to you, is limited.



Remember that you have been emotionally abused. Your brain has been manipulated and controlled. Yes it can feel slightly ‘weird’ and ‘empty’, after all this person has likely removed you from your own world. Your own life. Your life is still there, it is just that you need to reach out to it. Feel that pain inside and use this to make you determined to rebuild your life for you. Be determined to make your own life better. The sociopath will not make your life better. You know this (or you wouldn’t be reading this site).

What happens when I break No Contact?

When you break no contact, the outcome is really dependent on your abuser. How they are feeling (remember it is all about them). They might be delighted to hear from you, hurray you are prepared to be used some more.

They might even give you false empty promises or play victim so that you feel sorry for them. They might falsely accuse you, or deflect blame towards you. Alternatively they might take glee in ignoring your calls or texts and giving you the silent treatment
.

Whether the response is good or bad. The outcome is always bad. This is about you remember? Making contact with your abuser allows one thing, you give them permission to abuse you some more. Is this what you want?

Whilst your body might be screaming and crying out for the addiction fix of the sociopath. What does having a quick fix when you are dependent achieve? It merely continues the dependency.

You need to see that the sociopath deliberately creates dependency to them, and this in turn creates an addiction to the sociopath…. when the sociopath leaves you feels an affliction to the addiction. There is no need to make contact with them, unless you want more of the same treatment.

The sociopath will not change. Their behaviour patterns are so similar, readers of this site can identify with the complex behaviour of another readers partner as if it were their own. Remember that sociopaths are also compulsive pathological liars and will say anything to get what they want. Literally anything. They do not have a conscience, they do not think how it will affect you. What is important to them is:

Being in control
Winning


Making contact with the sociopath, will only empower them to feel that they are both winning and in control. Is this what you want? As this is how they will see it. They will see it that you cannot live without them, and that no matter how badly they treat you, you will still come back for more. At this, they think one thing ‘SUCKER’…..

Breaking the no contact rule will only serve to cause you further pain and heartache. Once again the sociopath will be centre stage. Your focus will be back to them and not on you and your own life. Sure they might tell you how they are changing, how they are being a great person now and that the next person will benefit from all that you taught them?

This is just another manipulative ruse from the sociopath. It isn’t true. They might think it is, but the reality is that they repeat patterns of behaviour. They will time and time again. If not with you, they will with someone else.

It is time for you to start loving YOU. You’re worth it. You are beautiful in your own right. Contact people who really do love you. Contact people who help you to grow and to shine, not the one who makes you feel small and insignificant. The people who truly love you, probably miss you and would love to hear from you.

If you have less people in your life at the end of the relationship, than you did in the beginning, this is a huge warning sign. Have you not lost enough? How much more do you want to lose?

Also remember that to the sociopath, life is a game. Other people are merely players in the game. If you make contact, you are agreeing to play the game further. Is this what you want?

Stick to No Contact and focus the energy on loving you!!!
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact II
#28: February 03, 2015, 07:33:57 PM
A bit of the humorous side of implementing no contact..found online


Doing the Monkey Dance


You already know by now that the narcissist is unbeatable at their own game—which is to win at all costs. You’ve hired attorneys, you’ve tried to reason with them, you’ve given them what you think they want and nothing works. They keep coming back, keep being jerks and a**wipes and they keep wearing you down.

You think you have no options. I’ve heard other victims say they have contemplated killing the narcissist or killing themself to make the madness stop. Let me assure you, violence is NOT a solution or an answer, but ignoring them is.

In the wild when animals face off against each other they dance, huff, growl, scream and get all worked up, biologists call it “a monkey dance.” Monkeys are particularly vocal and animated when they’re angry and their angry monkey dance can be very intimidating to other monkeys.

When drunken men do this same thing, scream, threaten, jump around, and throw things in bars, police officers also call it “doing the monkey dance.”  Whether it’s in nature, or as a result of the male or female ego trying to impress or intimidate, it’s still a “monkey dance.”

The monkey dance is usually an orchestrated series of screams, arm waving, drama, threatening words, jumping up and down and all around and throwing stuff. At first glance it’s intimidating and frightening and viewers, especially targets of the dance, feel threatened, scared and want to run. Good. That’s what the monkey dance is supposed to evoke in an opponent—fear and flight. It keeps people and animals from getting injured. But it’s a bluff!

 Researchers have learned that the monkey dance is just that—a dance designed to intimidate and frighten those around them so they’ll flee and the monkey won’t have to fight. Because in a real fight? The monkey usually loses.

I want you to sit for a minute and visualize yourself behind bullet proof glass, watching an angry monkey on the other side. They’re acting like two-year olds in a rage (and indeed many of them may have suffered their emotional wounding at that age). See the monkey throwing its own feces, screaming, running around the room, punching holes in the wall, throwing things, waving its arms. Keep watching. Remember the bullet proof glass. They can’t hurt you.Their actions are all bluff and threats.

As your mind begins to see that the dancing, raging monkey can’t hurt you, you begin to relax. You stop feeling threatened and begin to feel curious. What will he do next? Keep watching. Eventually you start to see patterns.

He steps in his own poop, then throws it. He windmills his arms, then hops up and down. Eventually you start to laugh because you finally see what he’s doing—pitching a fit. At about the same time you see him as a non-threat and a joke, he senses a change in you because he sees your posture change.

You’re leaning forward, not back. You’re not afraid of eye contact. You’re laughing. The monkey begins to feel uneasy. That’s not how his dance is suppose to end. You’re supposed to run away, to see him as some sort of all-knowing, all dangerous threat. But you don’t. He changes his tactics. He beats on the glass. You may be startled for a minute, but you laugh, knowing he can’t break through.

Eventually you get bored with the feces throwing, fit pitching monkey and YOU TURN YOUR BACK ON HIM. You have other things to do, and you quit watching, responding or caring that mr. monkey is still dancing behind you. You have finally learned how to ignore the monkey.

Narcissists are a lot like angry monkeys doing their  monkey dance. When a narcissist goes into a rage, 99 times out of 100 that’s all it is—a glorified, poop throwing, pissing, stomping temper tantrum. And because we’re such co-dependents and generally so hooked into pleasing the narcissist, we fall for it. We respond just like they want us to. They get what they want, and we’re left feeling frustration, anger and fear while they go on their merry way.

 But we have a weapon they can’t defeat—IGNORING THEM.

 The ONE thing the narcissist wants, and gets, with this stupid dance, is our attention. Remember—narcissistic supply. They need our attention, negative or positive, to breathe. They literally cannot survive without our attention. So ignore them. When they start to pass out from lack of supply they are literally forced to go elsewhere to seek it.

I know. Ignoring them is VERY HARD. You’ve got a thousand reasons why you tell yourself you NEED to pay attention, to watch what they’re doing, to worry and obsess over them and their pissy little dance.  Unless you’re living with the narcissist, or have custody issues, or work with them, or they’ve been physically violent in the past, totally ignoring them is your best path to salvation. When you hold the ONE thing they can’t get? They want it. If you waiver just a bit and give in, you have to start over because you’ve just taught them that persistence wears you down and it then becomes a game they want to win. Don’t let them.

The bulletproof wall is in your faith, your mind, your self-control. It takes a little longer to learn that ignoring them is the best way to deal with them, but you can.
Spotting the Monkey Dance

It’s not hard to spot the monkey dance. It happens any time you disagree with, confront, ignore or inadvertently shame or confuse a narcissist. Narcissists are hard-wired to monkey dance anytime they’re not sleeping, sucking up or looking for new victims. It’s who they are. What’s more important is learning how to DEAL with the monkey dance.

Dealing with the Monkey Dance


Monkey dances come in various forms: cell phone calls, text messages, postings on FaceBook or in social media groups you belong to and so on. You may see the monkey dance if you live, work with or encounter a narcissist anywhere they deem it okay to dance. What’s important is to BLOCK your viewing of the dance.

Emails are digital monkey dances. Use filters on your email to ensure that whenever they email you, their email goes directly to a folder where you don’t know about it, you don’t see it, and you’re not tempted to read it.  If they’re planning legal action action you can’t stop it by reading an email because you can NOT reason with a narcissist.

 They don’t understand or care about you. They ONLY care about themselves. Don’t fall into the trap of thinking they’re reasonable people. They just want to suck you into their dance. You can’t DO anything until they act, so why get in a froth about their dancing. IF they file legal action you’ll get a certified letter in the mail. Then you can address the letter. 99% of what they threaten never comes to pass. For the 1% that does, attorneys are wonderful for dealing with them as long as you don’t get a narcissistic attorney.

Block their email on your cell phone. If your phone doesn’t have this function, call your provider. If they need a court order to block the person or number, then get it. Don’t answer their call. Don’t listen to their voice mail. 99% of what they’re threatening won’t happen and all it does is upset you. IGNORE THEM. IGNORE THEIR MESSAGES. [/b]They are not worth your time.

YOU have something to offer society and friends, they do not. You wouldn’t offer your friends turds for treats would you? Then stop interacting with the narcissist because their negative energy infuses your own and makes you miserable, which makes your friend’s miserable. And you NEED your friends.

Hire an attorney. Attorneys can cost thousands of dollars, or not. Take your time looking. Make sure they’re not a narcissist by interviewing them and looking for tell-tale signs. I’ve found an attorney who charges me flat rates for services and offers me a very low rate for being the person the narcissist must deal with if they want to dance. A cease and desist letter can cost as little as $25.

 The follow up with criminal charges for stalking and pursing other legal action is about the same.  If you’re worried about your monkey, then find an attorney the first time the monkey starts dancing. Explain your situation, get your letters and start the legal process rolling. Most monkeys don’t like jail, which is where they could be headed once you document their abuse and their contacting you after an attorney has told them to “cease and desist.” There are laws in many states that prohibit emailing and phone calls and online harassment.

Avoid Dance Floors. Meaning, don’t go where the narcissist likes to dance. If you’re working with, involved with or otherwise forced to deal with the narcissist they’re going to dance no matter what you do or say. It’s THEIR pathology, not you.

When they launch into their screaming, offer them a banana, or you can leave the room, the office, the house or go stand by a friend of yours so they can watch the dance too.

Monkeys can be shy (unless they’re celebrity monkeys who love the attention) but the average monkey dancer doesn’t want their other sources of narcissistic supply to see them in a rage. If you belong to a social media group, stop posting. Unfriend and unfollow. Don’t stick around to watch the train wreck or get tempted to react to something they say. IGNORE. IGNORE. IGNORE.

If that’s still hard to do, buy a plastic banana or dancing sock monkey and write your narcissist’s name on it. Every time you feel tempted to respond, react or engage with them, even in your mind remind yourself they’re a dancing monkey.

If you’re a generous, kind person, which you are because a narcissist was attracted to you, you may think this is cruel and insensitive and painful. And to do it to a NORMAL person would be, but narcissists aren’t normal. They’re unable to feel, sense or appreciate feelings, compassion or other people’s needs and boundaries. Where you’re worried about them and not yourself, they’re ONLY concerned with themselves and wringing every last ounce of attention (good or bad) out of you, before dumping you and moving on to their next victim. The better you are at ignoring them, the faster they’ll move on.

DO NOT FALL INTO THE TRAP of TRYING TO REDEEM, CHANGE, RESCUE OR SAVE THEM. It can’t happen.

Anyone who tells you it’s possible is thinking of the 1% of the .0000005 % that might have changed. Now, go find ways to ignore your narcissist and remember, every minute you let them sit in your thoughts YOU lose.
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

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Re: No Contact II
#29: February 04, 2015, 06:25:42 AM
Found online:



No Contact

Definition

No Contact (NC) - Going "No Contact" means cutting off all forms of correspondence, communication and personal contact with a person who suffers from a personality disorder in order to protect yourself from recurring abuse.

Description

There aren't many long term solutions for dealing with a person with a personality disorder. Going No Contact (NC) is a solution that is sometimes necessary to prevent recurring abuse.

Going No Contact (NC) is an example of setting Boundaries. NC is generally considered to be the boundary of last resort for a Non in trying to protect themselves from dysfunctional or abusive behavior.

Going No Contact is often a painful decision to make - as you may have to let go of the persistent hope that a loved-one will get "better".

Going No Contact is not an attempt to change a person or to teach them a lesson. If it were it wouldn't be "No Contact" but a bluff and an ill-advised one at that. Going No Contact is more about protecting yourself and letting go of the need or desire to change another person.

If you are experiencing recurring abuse as an adult you need to take responsibility that you may be 'enabling' or 'allowing' the abuse to recur to some extent. If the person with the personality disorder doesn't have the self control or capacity to stop abusing you, the only way to make it stop is to go NC. If you have grown up as a child of a personality disordered individual, it may always have been that way and that may have become a way of life for you. You may not realize that you have to make the choice to not be abused.

Going No Contact is a touchy subject. Some people don't feel comfortable with the idea of cutting off a family member for life and facing the consequences of what they or others might think of you. Making the decision to go NC is never easy and is more like choosing the lesser of two evils. It may feel like a death of sorts - the death of a relationship. You may find yourself grieving or mourning the loss of "what could have been". You may feel deeply depressed as a consequence of going NC.

Going No Contact is not necessarily a decision to stop loving the person. It is a decision to stop struggling with them and let them be who they are going to be while not letting their behavior hurt you any more.

People who go No Contact sometimes feel a great deal of Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG) about it:

Fear - They may fear the retribution or anger of the person whom they have cut off. People with personality disorders have an intense fear of abandonment or need to be admired and may react destructively, vengefully or even violently when faced with the humiliation of being shut out of a family member or former partner's life.

They may also fear the misunderstanding and anger of other family members, friends and acquaintances. Some of these third parties may feel like they are being left to "deal with it" and may express anger about that . They may also feel anger at their own situation while they don't have the nerve to take such a step.

Obligation - Many people will resist going No Contact out of a sense of loyalty to a relationship, marriage or family unit and out of a fear of being judged by others. People who leave a marriage or family are often misunderstood as being selfish, over-reacting, disloyal, unfaithful petty, shallow and weak.

Guilt - People who go No Contact are familiar with guilt. They will often be subject to hoovering by the person whom they have cut off which serves to play upon those feelings of guilt. They may be made to feel like they are the ones who destroyed a trust, broke the promise or threw in the towel. In reality, the promise was broken and the trust was destroyed by the person who behaved abusively before the relationship ended.

People who go No Contact are likely to face a campaign of hoovering, both by the person whom they have cut off and by other family members and friends. It can be easy right after someone hurts you to feel like No Contact is the right way to go. However, when they start heaping all sorts of kindness and sweetness on you it can take an iron will to resist the temptation to give them "one more chance".
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There are two ways of spreading light:
Be the candle; or the mirror that reflects it

Don't ask why someone is still hurting you; ask why you keep letting them.What you allow continues.

At some point you have to get sick of going through the same sh!t.

Women are NOT rehabilitation centers for badly raised men. It is not your job to fix ,parent, raise or change him.
You want a partner not a project.

 

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