[elray]

I agree with the double standard here, but I think we have to be careful not to fall into the alpha/ beta pit that I've seen a lot of the LBS brothers fall into.

Thundarr,

I'm not going to give you the "grow a pair" speech, but I would HIGHLY recommend Athol Kay's book -- Married Man's Sex Life Primer book -- in it, he very clearly highlights that alpha-beta gets it wrong -- just like you said.

His recommendation is to understand that as men, each of us have mix of these traits.  IE -- we have a hammer, and we have a scalpel, or we can dance ballet and play football. 

The secret is learning to be self aware and know which tool or which sport you tend to defer to, and be more conscious of choosing which to apply in any given situation.  He spends a great deal of time talking about finding the right mix.

So the concept of Alpha OR Beta as you proposed it is a bit of a strawman argument -- because "BOTH w/ skill and intelligence" is a viable option.

[Thundarr]

Thanks El.  I'm very familiar with Kay's stuff as he was a popular topic of discussion on a male-centric forum I used to frequent with BH.  I believe he was the one who proposed the "meta" designation for men as being the most successful.  My statement on alpha/ beta was to the effect that our spouses did not leave us because we were beta and they were looking for an alpha.  Perhaps some of us are more beta in some ways, but like you said we all have tendencies of each and what we display would vary depending on the setting.

[Mac49]

Elray

Thanks for the the heads up

53/2 + 7 - substantially opens up the playing field

Mac

[elray]

Hey Mac -- glad to help a brother out -- but that rules been around for at least a hundred years according to wikipedia...don't forget -- you must round up, just to be safe

 :-D

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=half-your-age-plus-seven

[Mad Hatter]

I agree with the double standard here, but I think we have to be careful not to fall into the alpha/ beta pit that I've seen a lot of the LBS brothers fall into.

Thundarr,

I'm not going to give you the "grow a pair" speech, but I would HIGHLY recommend Athol Kay's book -- Married Man's Sex Life Primer book -- in it, he very clearly highlights that alpha-beta gets it wrong -- just like you said.

His recommendation is to understand that as men, each of us have mix of these traits.  IE -- we have a hammer, and we have a scalpel, or we can dance ballet and play football. 

The secret is learning to be self aware and know which tool or which sport you tend to defer to, and be more conscious of choosing which to apply in any given situation.  He spends a great deal of time talking about finding the right mix.

So the concept of Alpha OR Beta as you proposed it is a bit of a strawman argument -- because "BOTH w/ skill and intelligence" is a viable option.

Kay's books are probably some of the best reading I personally experienced. Have read the MMSP 2011 and "How To Answer "Do These Pants Make My Ass Look Fat?" a couple times.

Reading Mindful Attraction Plan now which is essentially a GAL book in the context of marriage and relationships. He has other books/eBooks on his web site that are not offered on major book seller sites as well.

[OldPilot]

Yes, this is the male shaming that's thrown around a lot these days, it's nearly always taken to extreme examples to throw in the "Creepy" factor as well. Almost no men of 70 are going to be dating 20 somethings, which most people would find creepy, but men 40-50 something will be dating 20-30 somethings.

Fair enough -- I did apply a creep factor -- I've always heard it said that for older single men:  half your age plus seven is the bare minimum to avoid the social pressure of an implied creep factor. 

So for the 40 year old, keep them about 27+ (40/2 + 7), and for a 50 year old 32+ (50/2 =7).  Am I still telling you to lower your expectations?

Hmm with this age group I think you are setting yourself up to repeat history after a few years.
But then what would I know maybe you will be part of the lucky 25% that dont get divorced in the second time around.

[elray]

Op. I'm 42.  I have a youn case of mlc.  What age is "safe"?  As I look at it the next 10 years are risky bets.

[Braveheart]

Yes, this is the male shaming that's thrown around a lot these days, it's nearly always taken to extreme examples to throw in the "Creepy" factor as well. Almost no men of 70 are going to be dating 20 somethings, which most people would find creepy, but men 40-50 something will be dating 20-30 somethings.

Fair enough -- I did apply a creep factor -- I've always heard it said that for older single men:  half your age plus seven is the bare minimum to avoid the social pressure of an implied creep factor. 

So for the 40 year old, keep them about 27+ (40/2 + 7), and for a 50 year old 32+ (50/2 =7).  Am I still telling you to lower your expectations?

Not at that level, but you would not believe the flak I've taken from women when I even suggest I don't date women my own age. The ones female friends have tried to set me up with clearly have nothing in common with me , eg. I'm fit, exercise daily, cycle, hike canoe etc. and they try and hook me up women whose idea of exercise is watching "Dancing with the stars"

[Braveheart]

Yes, this is the male shaming that's thrown around a lot these days, it's nearly always taken to extreme examples to throw in the "Creepy" factor as well. Almost no men of 70 are going to be dating 20 somethings, which most people would find creepy, but men 40-50 something will be dating 20-30 somethings.

Fair enough -- I did apply a creep factor -- I've always heard it said that for older single men:  half your age plus seven is the bare minimum to avoid the social pressure of an implied creep factor. 

So for the 40 year old, keep them about 27+ (40/2 + 7), and for a 50 year old 32+ (50/2 =7).  Am I still telling you to lower your expectations?

Hmm with this age group I think you are setting yourself up to repeat history after a few years.
But then what would I know maybe you will be part of the lucky 25% that dont get divorced in the second time around.

It's the problem I run into all the time, hence my current "Monk Mode". A great many women I've run into 42-50 are someone else's MLC wife, either still married or separated/divorced. With rare exceptions most Women over 50 do not appeal to me at all.

[Dji76]

El, what I think is "safe" is managing your emotional investment in future relationships. Just my .02.