[patience.of.a.saint]

I can vouch for the fact that PCPs shouldn't be in charge of the meds for mental issues. My MLCer is on Adderall, which was originally prescribed by a psych doc, but is maintained by the PCP. When we were together, I went along and told the doc that it didn't seem to work that well and told him the issues...so he upped it to two extended release pills a day.

Well, guess what, gradually over a couple years, the problems got worse, so we talked to the PCP again and he upped it one more time, with the thought that my MLCer was just getting too accustomed to it. My MLCer was completely off the deep end six months later. His anxiety was through the roof and by that point we were after BD so I could have just let it go and let him figure it out for himself...or watch him end up in jail because nobody else would've ever guessed that it was those meds causing him to get the way he did. He screamed at me one last time and I yelled back that this was not me OR him. It was his Adderall doing this to him and if he didn't get it lowered, he'd likely end up killing someone for something stupid like clicking their pen!

I ended up writing a letter to the doctor about his behavior, with the request that if he was not asked to have the Adderall lowered, to please ask the right questions, based on my information, so that those meds got lowered. Next appointment, my MLCer did get them lowered and has been somewhat better ever since.

Personally, from doing some research on all the possible mental issues he may or may not have, I would bet that the Adderall should never have been prescribed in the first place. He got it about the time that adult ADD had just become "a thing" and told me he went in and said he couldn't concentrate and he forgets things, so they gave it to him. It was the miracle drug...a better morning buzz than a cup of coffee and combine the two for a really good buzz.

Now, he's addicted to it and thinks this is who he really is. No...it's not...but he can't see it at all. I knew him in high school and he was never like he is now. I would be willing to bet that had he not had those meds upped, our time together would've been different. His personality changed. He got more paranoid, had more anxiety, reacted with more and more anger the longer he was on the higher dose...and then it got upped by a doctor who did not know what he was doing. "It's not working, let's give him more!" That doctor NEVER questioned that perhaps he should be re-evaluated for why it was not "working."

It's frustrating to watch and I am very glad I at least spoke up and got it lowered. I knew I would never get him to quit it at that point, but at least with lowering it, he is a much lower level of crazy than he would be by now, had he kept taking the dose he was on.

I did not do it for me or with the hopes that it would change matters with us. I did it for his well being, because I care about him...and I did it for his son, who needed him to be somewhat sane for his high school graduation.

Granted, this isn't the same med or situation, but I don't see how another person should look away if they know someone is on something they should not be on. If you can make a difference in someone's quality of life, why not?

[Thunder]

The only thing wrong with your theory is usually bi-polar generally shows up by early adulthood.  Like early 20's.  If your W is Bi-polar she would have been diagnoses way before now.

I'm not disputing the fact that some of these drugs do cause some bad, and even dangerous, side effects in some people but I really don't think your W is one of them.  imo.  Remember the woman in the video was diagnosed with BP before she took the drug,  You W wasn't showing signs of BP, right?

When my H went into his crisis I thought he had a brain tumor.  Seriously.  I even talked to our doctor about it, I was that concerned.  But after joining this site I realized his huge personality change is common in MLCer's.

You said your W has gotten better with coming to games and paying more attention to the kids.  If that drug was the cause of her derailing why is she getting better?  It could just be she is slowly coming out of her tunnel.  Give it time.

[lawprofessor]

Thundarr, I get that point and would be thrilled to examine it and discuss it long term and thoroughly with you as there are interesting and promising things there.

HOWEVER, my point is that you quickly message her and advise her to stop taking the meds.  This is where the problem comes in for me. 

This is not a scientific approach.  It is a fixer approach complicated by your guilt for something that is only a possibility at the present time.  If you have guilt already how can you deal with the reality of her changes if it is true?

I agree with much of what you said in that post of late.  It is right in my backyard of research.  But I spoke of your actions in contacting and advising her, and how it feels to her as she is at this point in reality, coming from you with the back history.  She is just as likely to check with her prescriber who will have no idea what she is talking about and will tell her to keep taking the meds.  End result is you appear to be a controlling jerk who knows nothing and is wrong to her teenage mind.  What was the burning need to advise her of anything prior to doing a bit of behind the scenes work? ?

You were fixing and treating her on one side as a rational adult capable of making rational decisions while also treating her as a child.

BTW J never displayed signs of bipolar before his crisis and I have known him since he was a baby.  I posit it is long term damage to his brain from the crisis and the alcohol and drug abuse.  Simply he will never be the same man he was pre crisis.  A few months in to the crisis he showed a list of bipolar symptoms which over time have decreased in frequency and duration but only with medical treatment including prescriptions. 

[calamity]

Back to basics:  Rule of 3.  Wait 3 hours, days, weeks...okay in this case maybe years before you say anything. 

I've had several flashes of insight during this past few years [beware the ones that occur before, during, or after sleep].  All have fizzled out.  I do think there are bio-physical/chemical causes for ml depression.  That is a reason for me to detach not to barge in & 'cure' him [my fantasy is to creep up behind him & inject him with a shot of testosterone--maybe I'd just like to stick it to him --wow, there's a wealth of material for a shrink!] 

We don't know what causes mlc--I doubt that it is one factor or simple explanation.  Unfortunately.

[Thundarr]

POAS, I recently dealt with a child who has struggled with anxiety since an early age and his PCP was prescribing stimulants due to what the PCP viewed as ADHD symptoms FOR THE 15 MINUTES SHE MET WITH HIM!  Stimulants (including caffeine) and anxiety DO NOT go well together and it almost always makes it worse.  For months after BD I couldn't even drink a soda without it putting my anxiety into overdrive.  I couldn't imagine what something stronger might have done.

Thunder - My theory is that the person would never have developed Bipolar symptoms if not exposed to the mind-altering drug, just as many mental illnesses (including schizophrenia) can be unlocked by hallucinogens in people who would have never developed the disease otherwise.

LP, I see what you say about jumping the gun and probably should have held off until at least speaking to her in person.  I'm hoping she sees that I was concerned about her, but given her statement the other day about me being over-protective I can see why you would say she wouldn't.  A step back, perhaps, but hopefully the last one for quite some time.  Praying it doesn't slow her ascent from the tunnel at the very least....

Calamity - Very true, and now I wish I had remembered your mantra.  And I also don't think there is one cause for MLC, but I DO think that each case is different and MAY have a specific cause.  Hopefully one day we'll have the knowledge and technology to unlock those mysteries.

[LisaLives]

T, With all due respect, you're showing serious NARC behavior.  Is it your own MLC?  Are you okay?  I showed up here expecting to read some great new research you found, but no, it is you hypothesizing, diagnosing and fixing... everyone but yourself.  T, you need to STAND BACK.  Even if she is showing signs of wanting you, your clinging is not helping your case.  TBH, if you were always this way, I can see why she didn't want to be married to you...  Let her go, let her work on herself, let her see you become the independent person she wants to be and let her be attracted to that shining light.   

And why are you overlooking the one effect of anti-Ds we have ALWAYS known--that sometimes they work, and when they work, they make people feel better, sometimes a LOT better, really quickly, which can lead to short-term changes, like hyper-sexualization, and suicide--because for some people a lot better means they still feel like $h!te, but can finally get off the sofa and do something about it--like jump off a bridge.  But she seems to have leveled out.

WHY, in all your education have you not learned rule 1!  You can only own your own stuff.  Unless someone ASKS you for help, you can't and should not inflict your help.  We all have our own brand of crazy, and none of us will ever be totally fixed.  If I were your wife right now, I would be so pissed, and because we have kids together, I would say nothing, but you could bet your sweet patootie, there'd be a LOT of purposefully passive aggressive s@#$ flying your way in the short-term.  You think I'm crazy, I'll show you crazy... 

T, you care too much about trying to guess what everyone else is thinking and feeling and doing but yourself--you think they don't know that.  I bet even your little ones know how to play...  If we say sad stuff about Mom, Dad does what we want...  Even if it's not true...  Don't underestimate what your kids know and how mature they can be about feelings and manipulation...  You are not necessarily the smartest one in the room, not about how YOU behave and what others KNOW... 

I was hoping to stop in here and see you had grown, but dude you seem stuck (I took a quick look at your last thread)!  I wish you well, but you need to get a grip, ASAP, let her go, find yourself.  Many people know that too many therapists become therapists for reasons too personal and, in fact they are in no position to help you because the only perspective they have is their own...  Don't be that guy, love and light, ll

[wondering]

My point was that you gave your XW dangerous advise and that was to stop taking them right away and then go see a Dr.   It can be extremely dangerous to stop a antidepressant abruptly unless under the care of her Dr.

[patience.of.a.saint]

POAS, I recently dealt with a child who has struggled with anxiety since an early age and his PCP was prescribing stimulants due to what the PCP viewed as ADHD symptoms FOR THE 15 MINUTES SHE MET WITH HIM!  Stimulants (including caffeine) and anxiety DO NOT go well together and it almost always makes it worse.  For months after BD I couldn't even drink a soda without it putting my anxiety into overdrive.  I couldn't imagine what something stronger might have done.

His highest dose was 30mg XR 2x daily. That was up from 25mg XR 1x daily when we first started dating. Add to that at least two of the convenience store size Monster drinks, and a few mugs of coffee. He was plenty stimulated.  Now he is down to 20mg XR 2x daily and no idea how much caffeine, plus  added smoking and drinking. He'd be a different person without any of that.

He'd be a different person if PCP's were not allowed to play with mental drugs that they do not know the first thing about prescribing. Heck, around here, all it takes is a teacher to suggest ADHD and a kid can end up on meds.

[Thunder]

Wondering you are correct.

I was on them years ago when my kids were little.  I felt so much better I quit taking them after a few weeks.  After a few days I was nauseous and felt really sick.  When I called my doctor he was appalled I had just stopped my med.  He had me go back on them and slowly decrease the dosage until I was off them.

I'd never do THAT again.   

[Ready2Transform]

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2015/09/17/olympian-turned-escort-suzy-favor-hamiltonys-drug-mental-disorder-led-to/?intcmp=hpff

I read and watched this with three words in mind - Oh. My. God.  XW had started on Zoloft a few months before BD and for the first few months of 2011 would definitely fit the definition of hyper-sexualized as she wanted it multiple times every day and waited up for me to get home at night and then kept me up half the night.  We had fooled around about 8 times the day before I caught her at lawyer boy's office!  TMI, I know, but it totally fits with the side effects of taking Zoloft when someone has Bipolar Disorder.  I can't decide whether I needed this today or if it was the last thing that I needed, but I've already texted XW to ask if she is still taking it.  If so it's prescribed by a PCP and hopefully I can at least warn her about "possible health risks" enough that she gets evaluated by a psychiatrist.  Wow.  Just.....wow.

Hoss was on Serequel XR, then Celexa, then Lexapro. No mood stabilizer. First administered by his MD (actually the guy was an oncologist by specialization!), then the last two by his psychiatrist. Bipolar diagnosis. SSRIs are the worst thing you can give them. I know I'm a broken record around here about it, but between my own research and the professionals I've interviewed about it (pharmacists, PTSD-specializing psychologist, etc) this has been confirmed to me. "Rare and serious side effects" are real. But there was an underlying caused they were prescribed, too.

Update:  She just informed me that she is still taking it.  I advised her to stop until being evaluated by a psychiatrist due to "health risks." We'll see where this goes, if anywhere.  I have also found several accounts of Zoloft triggering manic episodes on various websites.

Nope nope nope gonna disagree with that advice. Quitting cold turkey and not tapering with the help of a doctor is BAD. She'll not only have side effects, psychological and physical, but it can ramp up the mania, and guaranteed she will not seek the advice of a psychiatrist. Not to be scary but Hoss did exactly this and monster entered the scene in a very big way at this point. I don't know what to tell you other than to let her manage her own health. It's a hard pill to swallow for people like us. I've done enough research for a PhD. None of it can help a man who doesn't want my help.