As always LawProfessor is the voice of reason.
Good Afternoon My3Girls,
In reference to your discussion thread:
By limiting or denying freedom of speech and expression, we take away a lot of potential. We take away thoughts and ideas before they even have the opportunity to hatch. We build a world around negatives - you can't say, think, or do this or that. Jill McCorkle
That is what I believe has happened on this forum all too often.
We can never be sure that the opinion we are endeavouring to stifle is a false opinion; and even if we were sure, stifling it would be an evil still. John Stuart Mill
Discussion is replaced or stifled by those that insist on:
-following a dogma without thought
-safety and ease of manageability
-protecting some from the things they don’t wish to read
Yet that is not conducive to progress and inquiry which is something we all want as to MLC. It is not the discussing that is dangerous but the lack of ability to openly discuss topics for fear that one will become involved in a slug fest.
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Ex would have been a clinger, but for me making him a Vanisher. Certainly he was a high energy replayer. (As well J was a high energy replayer, and clinger.) Ex wanted to have both me as his best friend and OW as his lover. J maintained the best friend status with his wife and had many lovers. J was gone 9 years on his path. Each time he was in contact with his wife, she assured him she was still where he left her. He only came out when he moved in with me and was introduced to consequences and working without a net.
I too went no contact early on. I was no contact for over two years, more nearly three, after surviving a divorce more akin to the English War of the Roses than most others that I know about. Notably he and I had several physical confrontations that culminated in my using a section of 2 x 4 to punctuate the message that he was never to hit me or to contact me again. He complied with that message until the past year or so when he began contacting me regularly.
As of this date, my ex H is begging me to allow him to come home. I have received flowers, candy, poetry, antiques, artwork, jewelry and more than one apology email. He is progressing nicely along his path at the present. It is me that has not wavered from the decision to not allow him to return home.
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There is virtually no proof as to anything related to MLC, beginning at the very base which is the question of whether such exists or not. No proof can be had unless one begins with discussion and inquiry. But if not allowed to or attacked for doing so, proof will never be had.
We are all well aware that the writings here state that NC should not be used except as a way to protect the LBS in extreme circumstances to paraphrase. As well, we are likely equally as clear that at some point, if one wishes to reconnect and perhaps reconcile, some degree of contact is necessary. What seems to not be as clear to some is the middle ground. No one said a person has to stay no contact forever unless they choose to but if that is there choice obviously they cannot hope to reconcile.
I, too, support a period of no contact of sorts. My reasons are as follows:
For me, love cannot exist without respect. In the MLC, these people have lost the ability to respect the LBS, so love is not possible on their part. Cheating, lying, name calling, acting as child, selfishness, financial misconduct, failure to assist with the children, failure to honor marital vows, failure to participate in marital life as a partner, etc are all acts of disrespect MLC spouses may participate in to some degree or another.
In the beginning, the LBS needs time to rebuild strength and confidence, to gain their footing under themselves, to begin building their lives. For many it may be easier to do that with no contact with the MLC spouse. It takes time to break cycles that include codependency and habits of acting in a more similar manner to his mother than to his partner as well. It takes time to begin to see the need for mirror work and for self growth.
At the same time the MLC person needs space to grow on their path, whatever that may be. If most could do this with us there, they would likely have had a transition rather than a crisis. For so many, the very presence of the spouse seems to constrain the inherent need of the MLC person to grow up in the sense that they need to establish their identity, learn lessons they missed in the past, and become healthy, perhaps because some sense the expectations of the LBS, some persist in cake eating knowing they will always be welcomed back so why not run and take huge risks if someone is always there to care for them. Why face the demons of their own dark side if they do not have to?
As well, the more the contact, the more debris that accumulates. They say something hurtful. We say something they find judgmental or hurtful. They are working on such a base level of feeling and reacting that anything can trigger guilt which often results in the need to run away. We get depressed or upset. They get depressed or upset. Too much debris is something that inhibits returns home in my experience.
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A function of the success stories here is ability of the LBS to get back on their feet, not the MLC spouse returning home. One of the building blocks is respect. Another is strength. Without those, no new relationship is possible in my opinion.
It matters not a bit to me what the motive is for going NC as long as the person is taking the time to heal and move forward. This is where the focus should be, here on the board, not on any type of paving the way as I believe that is a huge waste of time in the beginning, and only helpful late in the journey, something organic that may happen, not something to focus on manufacturing.
It is not the responsibility of the LBS to make it easy for these people to return home. I absolutely refused to make anything easy for J from his sobriety to working to paying bills to completing his journey. Had I done that, I would have taken away his sense of pride in his hard won accomplishments. That would have robbed him of his manhood. He had to value it enough to do it on his own. The lessons stuck and he is quite well today.
As to my ex, I have not and am not going to make it easy for him either. I don’t want a spouse who comes back because he sees returning to me as an easy move. I want him to respect me, my accomplishments, and my strength. If he cannot do that, there is no place for him to return to in my house as there is no basis for real love or true friendship.
As to speed, a car can drive faster on a smooth track with no obstacles, than on a street full of potholes, pedestrians, bicyclists and the like.
Not contacting them for a period is loving them enough to respect their need to follow their path without help or assistance, and using that time to follow our own path.
(Naturally all of the above is based on my opinion.)
And after all, is that not why we all originally came here, because we loved our spouses so very much?
Again, two more pieces of evidence for you.
LP
RCR Edited to put LawProfessor's whole name--sorry, I was confused since Law itself is a word and I don't usually recall who is what acronym. And since Anjae refers to her MLCer as Mr. J... I really got lost.
-You just can't make this s*it up.
-Not my circus, not my monkeys!
No Contact early on, what were your results?
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