[OldPilot]

Last thread
 http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8392.0

I'm just so sad!  Sad that I actually know a man that I spent hours during my crisis and his, talking on face book chat.  I cannot understand how he, the most gentle of men, could actually put a check mark next to that mans name.  I could see him voting for a republican congressman, republican senate... republican whatever... but I cannot understand how my dear friend OP could put a check mark next to Donald Trumps name. 

Sorry, I shouldn't make this so personal but of all the people I have met or know from this forum, OP is the very last person I would ever have expected to buy into a bunch of lies.  Even if every word that man said was true, the fact that he treats WOMAN the way he does, should have been enough to make it impossible for the man I know, to actually VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP.

I don't know of a single woman that has not been sexually violated at least once in their life.  Now that does not mean actual penetration, but having a kiss with tongue thrust down your throat, against your will, is assault.  Having someone put their hand up your skirt or on your breast, uninvited, unsolicited.  That's assault. 

In some ways the sexual assault is easier to take then the words.  I remember trying to watch his rallies and he would come in there, and he would start talking, diarrhea of the mouth.  He couldn't stay focused on his message because he was too busy responding to some of the WRONGS that he felt people were saying about him.  He just couldn't stop defending himself and accusing others for saying these things about him.  The lying media, the lies, lies, lies they were saying about him.  Yet he got more free media time then any other candidate ever.  He was calling they up, talking and talking.  Then would accuse them of misinterpreting him.  He would start people chanting... LOCK HER UP... in fact, towards the end of the voting around 2 am in the morning CNN went to his center and people were chanting LOCK HER UP... LOCK HER UP!  And THEY WERE WINNING!  What would they lock her up for, she has been found completely innocent of any crime.  If it wasn't her, he was mocking somebody else.  His voice would drone on and on... and the things he said, they were so hurtful, so crude... so rude... totally vulgar!
e
I wonder if your daughter has ever been sexually assaulted OP.  Had a tongue thrust down her throat or worse.  The chances are pretty likely, and you know the sad part, if you don't know and this has happened to her... then SHE DIDN'T TELL YOU!  How sad is that?  I never reported the guy that tried to rape me.  Never.  I just went home, threw up and NEVER gave any man unaccompanied a ride home, ever again.  Yep, that was my solution.  Sad eh? 

I'm a newz junkie and I have not watched the news since the night of the election. The last news I heard was the Trump camp, chanting... LOCK HER UP...LOCK HER UP!  I have resorted to reading my news, returned the old fashion way.  Need my fix.  I have read about the protests, I saw that Trump and Obama had lunch today and that Obama has graciously agreed to do everything he can to make the transition easier.  I read this, I skimmed over the picture of that man sitting next to Obama.  Obama looked so kindly, so dignified, so Barrack Obama. 

What have you done America?  What have you done? 
Stayed

Sorry you feel this way and yes you should not make this personal.

I have not attacked YOU for your personal or political views even though I do not agree with them.

In fact I respect you for all you have done here and feel you are just as misinformed about the US election and candidates.
Almost the same amount of people voted for TRUMP as Clinton so YES there seems to be a
huge distrust of something.

If you read the last thread I said it before but it is worth repeating,

Please keep the personal attacks off this thread.

This is a great observation that I agree with

Evas,

  I think you fail to see that what you said to OP about his wife leaving could easily be as offensive and hurtful to HIM as what Trump has said seems to be equally hurtful to you...

  I'm gonna get blasted for this, but hey..its the truth...that is how a lot of guys talk in private.  Sad, but brutally honest.  But you know what...some woman are equally as bad, if not WORSE.

  Note, I didn't say I like the guy or approve (he is a pig), but I think what is more important here is do you agree or disagree with his policy.  You can't control what HE says or does (except in this case through your vote), but you can control what you say and do.

I have to say, I am really disappointed.  We all talk about becoming "healed and healthy" which part of is RESPONDING not REACTING.

THIS is why I don't get into politics.  I figured this political thread *might* have a chance, being as we are all supposed to be grown, civil adults, but to be honest, am surprised it has lasted THIS long.

-T

I think to be honest that  we have all been played by the media
and TRUMP was correct when he calls them crooked.

He got elected by spending tremendously MUCH less than his OPPONENT.
He does not have any special interests that own him or control him.
He has denounced RUSSIAN  intervention in our election.

OH and Stayed watch the NEWS there is still lots happening to be concerned about.

[OldPilot]

Oh and I will add one more thing,

My GF = likely to be my next wife, respects me and agrees with me politically.
We both still love those people that voted for Clinton and do not hold that against them.

Please lets keep this civil.

Also STAYED FTR most former MILITARY people I know that are at least in my Academy class
also support TRUMP, along with hundreds of former admirals and generals.
So I hope you dont call them all the same things.

[OldPilot]

I must say I have enjoyed the discussion on this thread.

1.  It is fantastic to see people here taking an interest in something other than a depressive recounting of and singular focus on MLC.  To me that is a reminder that the world keeps moving forward even though Mlc has struck our homes.  Therefore, we must as well.  And yes there are bigger things going on in the world than Mlc, more important things as well. 

2.  This thread has also shown clearly that we are a diverse yet intelligent group of individuals with our own thoughts and opinions.  Some I agree with and some I don't. 

3.  The thread has also shown that there is an awful lot of work to be done still for getting messages to various groups of people.  Each now might want to consider how to adjust the presentation of their message so others may be more receptive.

4.  Part of that adjustment goes directly to a comment made by karmitsaghik concerning the Democratic party no longer being a party of the people to paraphrase.  I too believe that.  I'm a professor that holds 2 PhDs and a law degree.  I am also the first generation of children born in this country in my family. My father holds a PhD in Mathematics and worked a second job at night first loading box cars by hand and then promoted as a machine operator in the factory.  He is also a military veteran of 2 wars.  I worked in factories full time from the time I was 17 until 30.  As a professor it is easy to slip in to believing particular ideas and assuming others believe that way as well.  Its the white ivory castle on the hill syndrome.  Reality is not always so easy to swallow when it smacks us in the face.  At that point a re evaluation of the message and its delivery is called for in my mind.  This is an opportunity to do just that by many sides. 

5.  There are several important messages contained in these threads. 
A.  Americas decision have a huge impact on other countries, not just our own.  Being a Super Power carries with it privileges and responsibilities to ourselves, our neighbors, and to the world. 
B.  Many Americans don't know or understand the functioning of our own government. 
C.  There is still a huge gap between men and women as to what is considered appropriate and respectful behavior.  What are we modeling for our children and grandchildren?
D.  Each person has a duty to participate in the governmental process one way or another.  It is our duty as citizens not just of the US but all countries. 
E.  Withdrawing and ignoring, hiding our heads in the sand, being conflict avoidant is not productive.  Sometimes it may work but other times you end up with a President you find truly offensive and in conflict with all you believe.  If you've made no effort, you are simply making yourself a victim of other peoples whims and decisions.  Those who put in effort.  Don't complain if you chose not to make an effort.  Do better next time.
F.  Yes politics is often bloody and ugly.  From the time of the First Continental Congress, in the US, the Founding Fathers screamed, fist fought, dueled, and wrote strongly worded articles and letters.  Yes there were many personal attacks on each other as well.  That was one of the things that Jefferson, Adams, Franklin and Hancock said was a great strength of the US.  The ability to be able to fight for a position without risking censorship of the topic by an elite.  That was the beginning of the right of Free Speech. 
G.  Patriotism is not just agreeing with anything and everything the government and its supporters say.  It is not something to hide behind in an argument.  It is being involved and giving back to your country.  It is tough love as well, stating differences when you think your country is wrong, doing something below its high standards.  Yesterday I was flaming mad about a post related to patriotism.  Patriots can be both conservatives and liberals.  Who is this person to perhaps suggest that I, the wife of a career Marine, legal advisor to a division of the military, translator and contact worker to the DOD, was not patriotic simply because we differed in political party?  Then I screwed my head back on and actually read what was written and saw I was reacting not thinking.  And I put down my poison key pad.  She had a right to say or hint at what she said, even if I was reading in to it.  That was my problem.  Free speech is the right of all.  Even if it hurts my feelings. 
Lp

Great POST LP
I totally agree.

I am adding this link,  written by a CBS reporter who finally may be starting to GET IT.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/commentary-the-unbearable-smugness-of-the-press-presidential-election-2016/

[CallanG]

Why do we need these personal attacks on people ? In my view someone voting for  someone or something  that I might not have voted for is not a personal attack on me , it does not change who  that person is or the history I have with them or the fact that I love/like them .

Callan


 

[stayed]

I really am beginning to SEE, why we ended up in the situation we did.  We are nothing but a bunch of passive aggressive idiot.  We think everybody should respect every word out of every single persons mouth who speaks.  All opinions are not equal and I think we all know that. 

Those were not ATTACKS OP and it's sad that whenever anybody hears something they don't want to hear, they accuse others of ATTACKING THEM!  There was not one single thing that ATTACKED you as a person.  How sad?

If most of your ACADEMY graduates agree with Trump, then I am not at all surprised that America is in the mess they are.  To not be able to see the person you elected as anything less, then a buffoon, then your thinking has truly become skewed.

How condescendingly obnoxious of you OP.  So sweet and passive aggressive to try and sound above the fray and oh so charitable.  Was that similar to "sorry you feel that way"?  No wonder our MLCer's ground their teeth and snarled. 

Nothing to gain... you are so naive ! 

Stayed

[calamity]

Why do we need these personal attacks on people ? In my view someone voting for  someone or something  that I might not have voted for is not a personal attack on me , it does not change who  that person is or the history I have with them or the fact that I love/like them .

As someone said, the personal is political.  No this would not be true for many elections but this one, yes, it feels personal.  If you hear the American right wing media ie. Trump's people, it's personal.  Yes Callan it would change relationships for me.

Re:  Military.  The majority of the military votes right.  In the States,  Republican, here & UK, Conservative.

[limitless]

Wow Stayed!

I won't say that I am surprised by your reaction to the US election....as I know you....

I have been attempting to digest and understand what occurred here in the US on Tuesday night. 

Personally, I couldn't get myself to vote for either of the two major candidates.  (I wrote in my choice for President).  I am sure that there are or will be statistics on how many voters chose to leave the presidential vote unchecked.  I live in California.  One second after the polls closed, and prior to counting any ballots, California was awarded to the Democrats.  My vote truly wouldn't have mattered, regardless.  The commentator on the conservative radio talk show that I listen to on the way to work wrote in a vote for Harambe, the gorilla.  There are (false) news reports that a large number of people did the same thing.  A co-worker of mine, who had planned to vote for Mickey Mouse, changed her vote last minute to a vote for Trump.  (She despises Clinton that much)!

Looking back, the Democrats shouldn't have put all their effort and backing behind a candidate that was so very much disliked and (believed to be) dishonest.  I believe that just about any other Democrat (such as Bernie) would have won over Trump.  (But that is just Monday morning quarterbacking).  But, the Democrats had decided it was to be Clinton....and that is who they backed.

I spent much time talking about the election to others and, quite honestly, most people really couldn't stomach either candidate.

The results of the election (in my opinion) show that the American people are sick and tired of the status quo and career politicians.  I don't think it had anything to do with Clinton's gender.  I really don't.  I also think that the people dislike the media and how very slanted it is.  I switched back and forth between CNN and Fox on election night and the difference in what they said, showed, and predicted was astounding!  This also shows that the media and pollsters have absolutely no idea....whatsoever.

I am amazed at the number of women that chose to vote for Trump.  But, they did.

I have an ex Co-worker that was/is a huge Trump supporter.  He's been posting pro-Trump stuff on FB all year....and it makes me annoyed that his candidate won.  But, he did. 

Is the world going to come to an end because we have a reality star as our President for the next four (4) years.  I certainly don't think so....I certainly hope not.  We always talk about the red tape in Washington and how difficult it is and how long it takes to get things accomplished.  That is due to the balance of power (President, Senate, Congress).  I know that they are all under Republican control now.....but many/most Republicans are conservative.  I doubt that Trump's rash and ridiculous campaign promises will be supported.  I do worry about the social issues and what the Supreme Court will look like after the next four (4) years. 

Stayed....I can't understand how anyone could have voted for Trump.  But many people did.  I really can't understand how anyone could have voted for Clinton....but they did.  One of the two was going to win.  They were our only choices...which is just astounding. 

That said.  The election is over.  It's done.  Let's see what he does with it.  Maybe he will surprise everyone...and actually act Presidential.....who knows?  Hard to believe or fathom...but I guess we will see.

There are people here in the US who don't see Trump as a buffoon.  Obviously.  He was just elected President.  To say that their thinking is skewed is really not a fair statement.  The US was given two very poor choices.....I know...we chose those candidates, through our never ending election process.  It was truly a personal decision on which choice was the least trusted..., least liked, ....least dishonest.

You are being more than a bit combative.....I believe this is due to your very strong feelings on the situation.

I feel a bit differently.  I guess it is all part of acceptance.  The tribe has spoken...(Yes, a reality show line fits perfectly here)...Clinton was voted off the island.

L

[CallanG]

I am sorry Stayed but to me some one saying that they can see why OP's wife left him is personal and uncalled for.

As to your huge generalization about us being  a " bunch of passive aggressive idiots " and your views on "why we ended up in the situations we did " . I chose not to respect the words that you used but that does not mean I no longer respect you as a person .

Callan 

[CallanG]

Why do we need these personal attacks on people ? In my view someone voting for  someone or something  that I might not have voted for is not a personal attack on me , it does not change who  that person is or the history I have with them or the fact that I love/like them .

As someone said, the personal is political.  No this would not be true for many elections but this one, yes, it feels personal.  If you hear the American right wing media ie. Trump's people, it's personal.  Yes Callan it would change relationships for me.

Re:  Military.  The majority of the military votes right.  In the States,  Republican, here & UK, Conservative.

I know that some people felt the same about the Brexit vote . There was the same anger and protests . My parents voted out and so did some of my friends but to me they are the still the same people even though I thoroughly disagree with their vote .    As you say though politics is a very personal thing .

Callan

[Thunder]

Limited,

You have to understand, Hillary said for a long time she was not running for President, but the Democrats pushed her time and time again to run.  She was the most qualified person we had.

Bernie was very popular but honestly the Republicans would have ate him for dinner because of how very liberal he is.  No middle of the road with him.  Hillary was known to reach across party lines when she was in the Senate and was very well liked by both parties.
We needed a candidate who could bring in some Republicans and Independents.  Bernie, God love him, would never have gotten one Republican vote.

Anyway that was not what I came here to say.

I heard a very interesting conversation on the radio this morning. 
Everyone seems to be shocked that so many voters came out for Trump, but they really didn't.
In states like Florida and Michigan, the turn out for Trump was about the same as what Mitt Romney.. and the Democrat won.

The Democrats had a very low turn out in these states, for what ever reason, Bernie, dislike for Hillary, the email mess or they were just over confident Hillary would win (she was ahead in most of these states by the polling numbers) so they were comfortable sitting home.  But it was not because Trump had big turn outs, they just turned out and voted for the Republican like they always do.  Nothing was abnormal about it.

I can only hope this was a wake up call for all voters, who ever you vote for your vote does matter!!  Don't sit home, take a little bit of time to get out there and do your civic duty.  OP I may not agree with who you voted for but I'm proud you did your civic duty.

This election could have turned so much different.  Maybe these next 4 years will be..like we say here. consequences for your choices. 
Choose to vote next time.

The only thing I feel sad about is Hillary has spent her whole life working hard, as a public servant, towards this and in my opinion she should have won it.
So I do feel bad for her.