[Keep believing]

Hmmm i suppose thats the addiction part. You know you will lose your h if you dont give it up.  Just as an addict. They know if they dont give it up they will lose eveything. Eventual becoming homeless.  But for the some addicts/ mlc er always find somewhere to go if they havent burnt all bridges. So they keep going. And that thing " just one more time" . 

[denjef31]

You know Keep Believing, I watch that show on A&E Intervention. I started watching it a few years ago and took an extreme interest in it. Perhaps because I had a brother and a sister that were drug addicts. They have fully recovered but it was not without a high price. They both lost everything. My sister lost her job, her kids, her home, and went to jail for 2 years for shoplifting. My sister is so pretty, a college graduate and had everything going for her and lost it just like that. She couldn't resist the pull of the addiction. She lost it all went to jail and there got help and started to rebuild relationships with her kids and family, and let go of the people who enabled her to keep living that life.

Same thing with my brother, him and my sister would get high together. He also had to go to jail and it still took him years and I mean years to get clean and do something with his life. Both are drug free now, married and doing quite well. They had to hit their rock bottom and it happened for my sister much quicker than it did for my brother. So yes it is just like an addict refusing to give up the feeling from getting high. You know it is bad for you and hurting people but you just cant resist. We tell ourselves we will stop, we got it under control but we know it is not true. Just what we need to tell ourselves to make it okay to get another fix of OP.

[Butterfly777]

That is the interesting part . I am struggling with this part of MLC right now . The more I keep getting a life and working on myself the more he comes at me . Which is hard because I do just fine now by myself . I don't think of him often like I used to or I should say my every thought was consumed by him . But as soon as he enters the picture again and especially when he wants to be physical in the good sense.... It tugs at my heartstrings . I struggle with if I keep pushing him away will he eventually stop . In the same token the more I seem to push them away more determined he becomes . It's a vicious cycle ! There are days that I don't want him to stop by because it's just easier that way , emotionally . He's been opening up to me more and talking to me more yet he still goes back to live with OW . We've come to a strange area and this now relationship where I can see glimmers of my old H and he treats me kind and wants to make sure that my well-being is cared for but I guess he doesn't want to be married to me . From the very beginning because he is a recovering alcoholic I could see the triggers and the self sabotaging but I never in my wildest dreams thought it would've been an OW I thought it would've been a relapse . In the beginning I even said she was the new drug of choice . Any suggestions Denjef on how I should be handling this ?

[denjef31]

Just as you are Butterfly. You are doing all that you can do. It is so easy, but the most difficult thing to master. I see positives in what you have shared, keep your eyes on the goal and not about what is not happening today. MLC takes time, he wont jump back in to the marriage. You are being tested, he is checking the anchor, he is re-inserting you ever so slowly into his life he just doesn't know quite yet, where you fit in all of this. If you have it in you to see where this goes you just need to follow his lead and let him come to you. Let him continue to peak out of the tunnel and take these baby steps towards you.
 
Don't get frustrated stay the course Butterfly!!!! You can do this

[Butterfly777]

Thank you so much Denjef!! There are days I just question if I'm doing the right thing or not . I try my best to give it to God yet the last thing I want to do is make a mistake . No matter what I believe whatever the outcome to be as God's will . It's just when I see the glimmers of the old H it's hard not to have my heart touched. And then in my cycling , I think he must be up to something and he's just been kind because he so happy with OW . Thank you for your gracious support ! I will stay the course! God bless

[Christina13]

Thank you Denjef for responding to my question.
I do feel like h goes in circles. Now after months of me telling him that our children aren't ok he says they need counseling. It's insulting really. Because I kept telling him they weren't ok Snd he told me I was being dramatic. That when he sees them they are fine. That its me , etc.
now he has all of a sudden forced me out of coming to his family parties. My kids are hurt and confused. He has never even told them why or that he was moving out . He refuses to face them. They are hurt and confused. When asked why I wasn't coming to parties he told them it was my decision. He can't even be honest with the kids. No accountability.
 I'm wondering why now during the most family time of year that he doesn't want me to come. Enough that he'd hurt the kids.
 My h family is asking if I'm coming tomorrow to a party for our niece. I babysat her from the time she was a newborn.
My kids want me to go. But I feel so unwanted by h.
It's so painful, I feel like he just took scissors and cut me out.
Every time I think he can't hurt me more he does. I feel like the person who loved me the most can't stand me.
Did anyone else go through this with being cut out and know why.
Denjef , did you and your H continue going to functions together !
We have been since BD , but now he doesnt want me with his family. 

[Keep believing]

Den. Im curious as to what you feel and think about the om now? Do you think he is a jerk for being with you, married and all? How much of the memories you have together with him do you think of? Does it feel good at all or are you groosed out when you think of when you were with him?
Also im wondering if your h ever cut down your om. If so how did that make you feel? did you stick up for om? And if you did , did you feel bad for doing so ? Did you feel like you were betraying your h when you would do this?   Thank you for your input. I cant tell you how much better i feel because of your honesty about your crisis.

[Butterfly777]

I also am curious about your thoughts of OM.

[Anjae]

I am sorry, if I hurt you, denje. That was not my intention.

Anjae refers to some things that RCR has said and they DO have merit but, even RCR herself says that she is not a professional and her writings are based on HER experience. Stayed (and her H of the famous "Stayed's H's Letter") have yet a third perspective. It is the various bits of information that allow each of us to cherry-pick (if you'll pardon the term) the bits and pieces we feel fit our situation and discard the rest.

Yes, what Ursa said. My experience of MLC is very different from yours, RCR or Stayed. My MLCersis a nasty one that remains bitter and in replay more than ten years down the road and no approach has made a difference. He is also one of the, fortunately few, MLCers that has been physically abusive.

I had a short, mild crisis of my own, but it cannot be compared to Mr J's one. He is in another league.

There are more things I would like to debate and ask, but not now. I am tired, my grandmother is very ill and I do not have the head space to debate or for questions and thoughts a thread like this requires.   

[Still Half full]

From my own experience if you are mean, nasty, and no contact because of the hurt and pain they have caused you sometimes they will feel they have hurt you too deeply and you will never forgive them. That they can never get back to a happy place with you and so they will stay in their adulterous relationship. Totally abandon you and your kids feeling you are better off without them and you are strong so you will eventually move on and you and the kids will be happier without them.

Denjef, I have drafted so many questions to you but this quote is so relevant to what I've been trying to ask

He thinks I can never forgive him so he's keeping away. He says he loves me but hasn't got the strength to fight for me ( maybe because he doesn't want me enough ? ) and he sees the OW as the easy option, she is so desperate to be with him ( mainly because of his job ) that she will accept anything.  She has even told him that she doesn't care that he still loves me, she wants to be with him anyway.  I know he's incredibly ashamed but it seems to be a case of he thinks he's made his bed

He has never asked to come home, he has never asked anything really, he told me he wanted me to forgive him and I said we should spend time with each other to see where it went, so he left OW and lived locally, but separate, back in Nov 2015 and we tried to reconnect, but he was still drowning in shame and guilt and became defensive and blame shifting - I hadn't found this site at that time so I wanted begging and pleading and most importantly answers .  I learnt a lot from him and much of what he said is how you describe things.  He said he 'thought' he loved OW, but now knows he doesn't, he said had the choice of having one woman angry with him or two, that he cried every day and the favourite part of his day was when she went to work, so it certainly wasn't a happy relationship with OW.  After a few months of trying with me, I was so disappointed with his attitude that I told him I wasn't interested because he was too selfish and we stopped contact in April. I thought he was working on sorting himself out, but he went back to OW a few months later.  He has since told me he still loves me but he KNOWS I will never forgive him, but I've never said that

I still think he wants me to ask him to come back and just forget anything ever happened, but I don't think I'm strong enough to do that, I need him to ask, I need an apology, I need to be told he loves me enough to work through this

So now, it's polite business emails only  ( I work for his company ). I sent a personal message when I heard he was ill and he replied  politely but that's all.  I am GAL and he has told me how impressed he is with how I've coped with everything ( I also feel like he resents that a bit too ).

I don't think he feels like he's scared to lose me, I feel like he thinks he lost me a long time ago.  He doesn't seem to have heard any of the hopeful, positive things I've said since this blew up, he is  definitely depressed, I don't think there's much hope for us to reconcile. I would like to see if we could, but I'm getting confused about not chasing him ( I'm not ) and paving the way.  Do you think I should still not initiate any contact ?

I'm finding your posts so enlightening, thank you for taking so much time to help us all get an insight into what's going on with our MLCers.  I understand you're busy with studies, exams and your own roller coaster,  but if you have time I would be really grateful if you could give me your opinion and I'm so grateful for everything you've shared here 😊