[Watcher]

Hi Denjef,

I am 18 months post BD. We've had back and forth living arrangements. I said on an earlier post that I dropped the rope in Oct and so far 2 months NC, accept for 1 school function that was just unavoidable. We exchanged hello's and did not sit with each other. Her choice.

My MIL basically lives in our home because she has to play the traditional role of a parent for our 2 boys, primarily cooking/cleaning. She informs me that W is back in her bedroom ,all day again, straight from work since I left.

She has isolated herself and talks to no one. This is not the Master bedroom, she has her own makeshift room for the entire 18 months and she sleeps on a mattress on the floor.

This is the 3rd time now that she has gone into this isolation period. They usually last anywhere from 3-4 months.

I did tell her why I left in Oct due to her anger and abuse issues which is getting physical.

MIL and FIL both say she is still using the Watcher has not changed mantra. W also complained that I did not take enough photos in Church that school day and did not stay long enough at the after party. Hence, my not changing.

I did the scary math last night. In 18 months we have seen each other 38 days and that includes living together for 8 months. It's all depression and isolation for the most part. Any thoughts ? Thanks.

[Never say never]

Denjef,
Thank you for that answer to Strength.  i feel that that is where I stand.  I think I love H more than I love myself.  I didn't post a question, it's just a how/why can/did this happen? 

I feel Strength's pain so much also, my heart bleeds for her right now.  Although my H is still at home (barely) I just don't understand any of this.  My H is different in that he only comes home to shower and go to work.  He doesn't eat with us, sleep here, nothing.  He tells me he loves me, he kisses me good bye in the morning.  It is so frustrating.

He looks awful, seems so depressed, when he is here on his days off of work (he is in law enforcement so it's scattered days,) he does stay here during the day then and all he does is watch TV and cry and drink.  He is a total alcoholic (for the past four years since this started.)  He does nothing around the house.  He goes between being totally nasty to me and then saying how sorry he is and how he is going to change and how much he loves me.

When I tell him to please move out until he figures himself out, he won't go.  He says this is his house, there is no one else for him, it is utterly frustrating.  I went to OW's house twice, which I will never do again, and actually went up to the door and they were eating dinner together like an old married couple.  When I asked him in front of her to choose her or me, he said her.  OMG.  That was in the summer.  I packed his bags and he still wouldn't leave.  He said this is his house.

I went totally dim, as much as I could still living under the same roof, but it's hard sometimes.  D just graduated from firefighting school.  H said we'd go out last night to celebrate.  When D and I got home from shopping, H was gone.  That is when I went off on him this morning. 

Sorry so long:(

[MourningDove]

Denjef,
I know others have said this, but I too want to extend my gratitude for your posts. To bare your own painful experiences from both sides and still answer questions for so many is so kind and immensely helpful.

The pain that courses through this board is deeply felt by so many, but so do the words of encouragement and evidence of healing. Thanks for continuing to share your insight and may your H work through his tunnel as well.

[bluerose]

Denjef,

     Does it really help when you dont pursue the mlcer? I have not had much contact with him in the last year. We went 8 months without seeing each other, then out of the blue in august he insisted on a face face talk. He told me that he wanted to work things out and wasnt happy with the ow. I havent seen or heard from him since september 5.

[denjef31]

Watcher,

Oh do I really sympathize with what you are dealing with. I have read your thread as I find it particularly interesting that she has not done anything to come out of this depression. I will say that I did this for a long time BEFORE I was diagnosed by my doctor, psychiatrist, and counselor as depressed. At first they contributed everything to stress. My day would go like this. Wake up from only having maybe 2 or 3 hours of sleep as my mind raced and I couldn't escape the thoughts or chatter in my head. Go to work on half functioning capacity. Barely fulfilling the requirements of honest days work for pay. Make half empty smiles at work, decline to go to lunch with coworkers and pretty much withdrew from socializing at work. Watch the clock all day waiting for 5pm.

When I am finally released from prison/work I would pick the kids up McDonald's as I had given up on cooking and baking which I have always enjoyed. Said hello to the kids, then resigned to my room for the evening where I would pick back up where I left off this morning thinking and processing. Some days to lazy, unmotivated, and plain ol just didn't care to shower before going to work. My doctor and psychiatrist took me out of work several times for months at a time due to my depression. There were days I just refused to get out of bed and I just felt like let me die lord just tell me the kids will be okay. I went thru this period for approximately 2 years.

2 years of nothingness, then I decided to take it up a notch I decided my withdrawal from my H and the kids still had not brought me any happiness. That's when I started up with entertaining the attention of OM. Threatening my H with divorce, being argumentative, kicking H out the house, going on smear campaign to anybody that would listen how horrible my H is and why I should leave him. I appeared to be happier to everyone on the outside. Obviously I made the right choice and everybody was happy for me to finally have peace.

Only I wasn't getting peace. I turned my world upside down and I was miserable than ever. Somewhere around this time my psychiatrist wanted to know my thoughts about checking in to the mental institution for a few days. I knew then I had to make some changes, but I wasn't ready to make those changes so I decided to not be honest with my team of professionals as the more deeper depressed I came the likelihood of them involuntarily committing me was a real possibility.

I pretend to get better, to have a different outlook. It was all a lie as I was still going home crying all night, half functioning at work, having my poor me pity party but doing nothing to change anything. I do not know why I stayed in this limbo stage for so long. I had my periods of highs when I was with OM, but as soon as our time together ended the depression, the demons were waiting for me.

Your wife is simply stuck. She has not found her motivation to change yet. She blames you for not changing but that is just deflection. She is aware she has not lifted a finger to change and she is ashamed of it but lacks the strength, courage, or willpower to do anything more than what she is doing. Has your wife suffered depression before? Is she currently taking any type of antidepressants right now?

Watcher, you absolutely did the best thing you could was get out of her way and the toxic hell she is creating. This will end when she lifts her head up and stop being the victim. I am very concerned about what you are seeing and hearing. It is very hard to wait for someone you love to seek help, any help but she has to want the help Watcher or any intervention will not last and it will not work. Chatter and confusion exist and have taken over in her head. Do your FIL and MIL live with her?

[denjef31]

Never,

Wow you have a total monster on your hands. This is a classic example of why you never give an MLC an ultimatum of either her or me or else. They will never choose there spouse when they are deep in the fog.  What type of boundaries have you put in place to minimize the hurt and destruction he is causing??

What you have is a situation where you have been shelfed for a later time to decide who he wants to be with. It is so disrespectful and demeaning to you on so many levels. It has also given the OW a false sense of security that will come to bite her in the end. I don't do a whole lot of boundaries personally, but in this situation I would.

He is not cake eating he is just being a selfish a$$. He has some awareness of the amount of betrayal and hurt he is causing you, but he just doesn't care enough to stop right now. This could go on for quite some time unfortunately. Some things has to change for the worse for him to even begin to cognitively think about the choices he is making. Either OW lets her mask slip, something happens to knock him off his high horse of confidence, a tragedy happens, or he just start doing the work internally. I don't think he is ready yet to do anything but take the easy route for now which is have fun with floozy.

Not a lot you can do besides trying to minimize your exposure. He seems to have a pattern, he comes in the morning I would be gone for a jog, a walk, grab coffee, anything but be there to see him make a pit stop every morning from OW house. He wouldn't have a chance to tell me he loves as those words are just empty gibberish right now. Get busy, stay out of his way and unavailable. You do this until you are strong enough and are indifferent to this sort of behavior.

You may not say anything but we pick up on the fact that you are in pain, that you are sad and we enjoy it to some extent. It makes us feel good are about are miserable existence. Your pain makes us feel better, it makes us feel that we are doing the right thing. We feel vindicated in some evil twisted way. You self pity basically becomes a sign that you caused are misery, and you are the reason for everything negative, bad thing we were feeling and now that we have broken away from you we are finally happy and we see you for the real you. You are the one who is stuck and miserable and I am so much better from breaking away from you is what we think in our heads about hurting you.

Get out of this vicious cycle, it can go and on until one of the things I mentioned above happens, or you decide to get off the freaking nightmare rollercoaster. Time is a gift if you do the work on yourself. If you do not then time can be a bitter curse. What work do you need to do? You get to decide but your H is too far removed from you right now. Take the focus off of him so he can put the focus back on you.

Denjef31

[krathos]

Hi Denjef, I love all the advice you give everyone, I hate to add to the list but I am in need of some advice.
 My W is live with OM, just started taking meds for anxiety and depression. For the last month she texts me every work day and calls me on her way home, she is hiding this from him cause usually that is the only times I hear from her.
 Now she has reached out to me this week and through our talk has expressed an interest in spending family time together with D and I, but I think it is only because D refuses to see her, I hope I am wrong.
 I was interested in your take on this.
 Thanks.

[denjef31]

Krathos,

Of course she is hiding it from OM. It doesn't matter that she is hiding it from OM. What does matter is that despite whatever perceived problem she thinks it may cause she is still reaching out and communicating with you. As crazy as this may sound communication often is started/initiated in secret. Not too many will openly call their ex/spouse with their current OW/OM within earshot of them as they know they can't be authentic or say what they really want to say.

This is a great opportunity for you to be the lighthouse for her. Let her get comfortable reaching out to you, talking to you. Strive to rebuild that friendship with her Krathos. She already seems to be thinking about things. Not liking the amount of control she feels OM has on her. These small things will grow, the chains are already turning in motion. This will lead to rebellion on her part eventually, and the problems will grow between her and OM. You don't need to do anything but be kind and nice, the opposite of what is about to start happening if it hasn't already between her and OM.

It will start off very very slow and you will wonder if you misread her. If anything is happening, but growth is underneath and internally. Outward growth is always the last and that is the changes you will see visually. It takes many tries and there will be false starts, but your kindness can be her light to a path of change.


Denjef31

[denjef31]

Bluerose,

Absolutely!!!! I am speaking from personal experience and from reading other threads. When you pursue it inflates our ego. It is exhilarating to know someone loves and cares for you so much despite how you are treating them. It also reinforces behavior you don't want. The "dance" ensues. When I would verbally tell my H I loved him and I wanted to work on the marriage it was if I had 3 heads attached to my neck and was speaking greek. He ran, he wouldn't call me, he wouldn't come see me or the kids. He couldn't handle my feelings, he wasn't interested in my feelings either.

I thought if I truly showed him and told him he would see my love is real and would want to work on the marriage or at least see if there was potential to rebuild. I tried and tried this method for months of texting long snoopy love messages. Calling crying while confessing my love and desire to fix whatever was broken. All pathetic in his eyes and the more I did that the more I heard I love you but I think we are better off as friends. I got tired of this so I just stopped for my own good. The pain of rejection was a bitter blow to my own ego and heart.

I stopped calling, I stopped texting. I let some of his calls go unanswered, and text messages go unanswered unless they were about the kids. I got to a point where I said f it. He didn't notice at first or maybe he didn't care. It took weeks of me not reaching out. I was quiet not a word from me. Finally he started calling instead of texting me about silly things. It was always about the kids. I didn't pay attention at first as I thought it really was all he wanted was to keep the conversation about the kids and for me to move on. But this way his way of checking the anchor.

I would answer his question or reason for call and hang up. So he couldn't determine by that phone call what my thought process was at the time. He would wait a few days call for another reason again about the kids and I would do the same thing answer and hang up. He would pick up our son for FB practice if I looked nice, or maybe looked like I was anticipating seeing him he would back away a little like drop him off and not come in. He saw me earlier and I probably gave a vibe and he got his fix that was all he needed.

I then up the anty and I started taking it upon myself to drop our son off to practice so he wouldn't need to come to the house to pick him up, and I would offer to pick him up from practice or just go pick him up from practice if I hadn't heard from him. I decided to limit calling at all even if it was a valid reason. He of course notice that too and he would drop him off and come in the house. I would always look nice but I wouldn't pay him any attention and he would come over give me a hug and a kiss and leave quickly. I didn't let on that it affected me but it did.

I then started staying in my room and he would come up there to see me and speak. We did this dance for a little while. I went from pursuing and being rejected, to distancing myself and being pursued. Same thing for when I was depressed. He pursued and I distanced, I wanted nothing to do with his begging and pleading for another chance. He stopped I noticed, and I started pursuing.


Denjef31

[Roma]

Hi Denjef,

What type of MLCer were you and what is your H if you don't mind me asking? A Clinging booomerang? A Wallower? A off/ on?

I ask to get a good thought of where you are coing from to possibly ask you a question.