[Watcher]

Thanks Denjef,

Yes, I have realized that there was more than just MLC at play here. I did wonder how much her history with depression was contributing here. I had hoped that it was just MLC, but she did stop taking her meds at BD, so her clinical depression is also a factor I would think.

My MIL has reminded me that her daughter has always been sick. Her parents do view this as a continuation of her problems. They do not view this as an isolated incident. There's so much more that I can add but maybe it's better for me to save it for my thread.

Looking back she did exhibit a lot of this behavior throughout the marriage and for that matter even before the marriage, but things really exploded with the postpartum. So I have a major depressive disorder/clinically depressed W that is also having a MLC on top of it. My psychiatrist has always felt the same. I have some thinking to do as this does change the dynamic of our situation.

[Keep believing]

Den ,i find your description of different mlcers interseting but my h seems to be a little of both.
My son came home from australia today .h asked if he could stop by. I said ya. I have such a sick feeling looknig at him now. I did ask him 2 questions .he answered and wouldnt even look at me. He has always looked at me . Now im freaking out thinknig he is up to something. Like did he move in with ow. What is it up to now? Kinda thing. Im hiding in my room right now. I told him i didmnt want to see him and he wasnt allowed to come here. When it comes to the kids i suppose that is alright. I have no idea if he is going out of town tomorrow. So i let him over. I guess i could have sad no . Figure out another time to see him but i didnt. I have such a mean feeling toward him now. First time i have felt like this when i see him.  It is what it is !

[denjef31]

Watcher,

Yes you have a lot of thinking to do, as your main priority right now has got to be of yourself and most importantly those kids. Your wife deciding to not take her medication is very unfortunate as she can stay suspended in nothing land for quite some time. She really does need to be on a medication regimen determined by her doctor. What can you do if she wont take them? You are definitely in a precarious situation. Your wife's illness is not unique but it is something that is not talked about on this forum much if at all.

Even with medication your wife has a long haul ahead of her. I will be praying for you and your family. God has put this burden on you to bear for a reason. You sound like a very strong man, dedicated father, and husband. Somehow while the situation may seem bleak, something good will come out of this. My hope is that she will seek help and commit to getting better. Prayers to you!

[denjef31]

Keep Believing,

He possibly is up to something. They are always up to something in MLC. Understand that I recognize and understand why you are doing, feeling, and saying the things you are to your H. I want you to think for just one minute about why you told him to not come to the house anymore? Was that a boundary you set for yourself to minimize hurt or did you tell him that out of anger ?

If it's a boundary you feel you need to implement then say no more as sometimes you have to do that to protect yourself. If you did it out of anger it will backfire and the thing you are most worried about will definitely come to fruition. This is just my opinion and everybody got different ways to skin a cat. Do not push or force him out even out of anger then expect him to not run into the arms of the bimbo waiting in the wings pressuring him and inviting him into her bed full time.

Yes MLC'r can be a combination of what I described and they can also be monster/boomerang/vanisher etc 1 week and be all the way on the side of crazy the next. and that can change just as quickly. Nothing is off limits or certain. MLC is confusion...I love you I don't love you. I want you I don't want you. I want to work on our marriage to Its over we can never work out our marriage Im done! They leave for days no call no nothing, then they think about you and they come over pretending to be interested in fixing things around the house.

This is there way of keeping one foot in the door, making sure you don't move on. It causes utmost confusion for LBS, as we are told to not get our expectations up, and detach. Yet here my spouse is cutting grass, fixing that old plumbing problem we have had for months. Is he doing this because he misses me and wants to come home or is he doing this out of guilt and he wants to fix the place up so he can force me to sale the home? Cycling, Cycling, and more cycling.

The best thing you can do for yourself is zip your lips right now. Whatever you say its not going to alter his path. You will just get more frustrated by his lack of empathy or concern right now. Don't alienate him and make him feel like the contraption he is pursuing. It is very very hard to show love when you are not getting love in return. Not knowing if showing love will work, and we don't want to be made out to be or look like a fool. We want to maintain some dignity and some respect.

I get that I really do. I am not sure if you will get anything positive out of the course of action you have taken. Sometimes it is not about getting positive interaction with our spouse. Sometimes it is about controlling the bleeding and protecting our heart from further hurt. Whatever you do and decide just make sure it is for you and not to get a reaction out of him because it is not time for that yet. I will pm you tomorrow.

Den

[Keep believing]

My Course of action is to give him everything he wants
 His money his d and his freedom . I'm not going to have him hold these things over my head any more. He has controlled me with his money and this d . He knows I didn't want it so you all know how they play with that. If he wants it , I'm giving it to him. For me a d gives me there's son to let go of hope . I can't let go completely but for me a d wil help me heal . I didnt want it but he needs help
. He chose ow over me too many times . To me he made his decision . If I start a new relationship it might as well be with someone different than h then to have to feel the pain all over again to reconcile . I don't have that in me .

[Nas]

Our brain to some extent allows us to not absorb how devious and hurtful we truly are so that we are able to look in the mirror, get dressed and do it all over again the next day. When we start looking in the mirror not liking what we see, expressing our shame and guilt to you, drinking and drugging everyday that is a coping mechanism. At that point we are 100% totally aware of your level of pain, we are hurting just as much but we don't know how to fix it, where to begin. Life seems to us as if we would rather run off, move far away so we wont hurt you anymore.

This is precisely why I have gone dark on my H.  In May he was saying how he can't look in the mirror, how he knows I'll never believe he's sorry, how he's never felt "good enough," how he's not a good person.  Then he moved 1000 miles away.  I don't believe he moved far away so he wouldn't hurt me anymore.  I believe he moved 1000 miles away because he wanted to be with OW and didn't give a flying f**k if I hurt anymore as long as he doesn't have to see it.

Then, there are some men and women in MLC who felt miserable in the marriage, they cant see how things could change for the better. They made a decision to end the marriage, they are confident and they are not turning back. Even if OW/OM relationship doesn't work out, they still feel they are better off without you. They will try to start a new life, new friends, new career, new home. They are establishing themselves without you. For some it will work and there will be no chance to work things out. For some they will feel confident in the decision to leave but after months, years go by and they are still stuck in the same rut, even worse than before they will change their mind and wonder if it is possible that you are still interested? Do you still care for them? So much time has passed now, there is no more arguing, guilting, pleading, begging and crying from you. You have accepted that the marriage is over and done.

Again, this is why I let go and am not communicating with him anymore.  Initially he did say he was miserable in the marriage.  It's complete rubbish because he was not miserable until he experienced the deaths of his grandparents and the sudden death of an old high school friend and started showing all the signs of MLC. But he must believe it was the marriage because he is "establishing himself without me."  He's got a new career, new friends, a new home, new romantic partner...and so reading this makes me think that unless the new romantic partner turns into a crazy b*tch or he fails at his new career, he will never look back.  Like he left me under false pretenses but since the new life is working out okay, that's it, I just lose out anyway.  Which makes me think this whole MLC stuff is such complete bullsh*t and the only way an MLCer will ever turn back is if they fail in their new life or their affair partner dumps them.   

They wont even think about those things until they feel the shift of energy. Until you shift your focus. They are comfortable in the fog. They are neither here nor there. They half exist in the euphorism of the fog.
I've never felt my H was feeling "euphoric" because he has expressed anxiety and depression and when he moved to be with OW, he talked about fearing the move would "put him in the ground."  But he is where he is and seems to be set on staying.  I haven't pursued him in a long time.  I only contact him regarding legal questions.  I moved away to a new state to start a new life of my own.  His response was to have D papers drawn up and callously tell me that my beloved dog might not have much longer to live and insinuate that I don't care (even though he knows I've been hoping to have the dog come live with me).  He felt the shift of energy from me and as with every single other time during this where he might have turned back toward me, he's chosen the new life and the OW.  So I've chosen to live my life without contact with him, because there is nothing else I can do.

[Keep believing]

Correction.  Time to let go of hope

[Puzzled]

Hi Denjef,

I have another question for you about handling MLC H.  In my situation, H moved away 1000+ km in October 2015 and he comes to visit every 6-8 weeks, usually for a long weekend, to see D8.  This time, he will be here for 8 days.  When he is here (staying in my apartment), he usually prefers to do things as a family rather than with D8 alone.  He tells me that he cries often because he is away from D8 and makes it sound as if our relationship was just a casual dating relationship, over which I need to get.  He writes that he wants what's best for D8 but doesn't act like it at all (he moves away, breaks up our family, gets himself a pricey apartment and puts himself into a tough spot financially but now writes that he wants to visit more often, etc.).  It's all about him, lots of replay behavior (one or two OWs, possiby dating others in addition).  He sometimes says that he is sad about hurting me so much (but I don't feel it's really sincere) and that it must be tough for me to be a single parent (thanks, H, for making me one...).  Also, he feels uncomfortable to come visit, claiming that he cannot sleep a week prior to coming (although he hasn't slept well for several years now, for various reasons according to him).

He told me recently that he is going to make himself available to OWs (although he's dated/had an OW for possibly close to a year).

So, my plan is to treat him friendly during his visit and to also launch a few truth darts (about a marriage not being like a casual dating relationship), kids suffering from the break-up of their family (if the topic comes up), and possibly also about morals, lying and cheating.  I usually can deliver them quite calmly or slip them in during "normal" conversations.  Do you think that truth darts are beneficial?

Another question I have:  Since H and I have always liked doing about the same things, it's easy for me to come up with lots of activities that we could enjoy the three of us.  On the other hand, I feel that he doesn't deserve me putting in a lot of effort to make our times together nice (since he has been claiming that he is only coming for D8 anyways).  What is your take on that?

Looking forward to hearing from you when you get around to it.

[handpuppets]

It is very very hard to show love when you are not getting love in return. Not knowing if showing love will work, and we don't want to be made out to be or look like a fool. We want to maintain some dignity and some respect.

This is so right on the money, Denjef.

I keep asking myself: Do I want to be right or do I want to be happy? For me, it comes back to trust and time. Standing is a marathon. Here's to hoping I don't die on the hill at Mile 23.

[denjef31]

Nassau,

You are angry, and your hurting. I pray that all LBS's find some peace, get their life back. Do you really think he moved 1000 miles away to be with OW if this was not eating him alive? Let me just be completely clear, a man or woman who just doesn't want to be in the marriage, they are done, they don't feel sh%t for you they just leave never looking back. They can live 2 blocks away from you and not give a flip about it. They can see you in the mall, at the store, restaurant and be completely removed and feel nothing!

They are very capable of calling you up to make arrangements for the kids, they don't stall on the divorce, they don't have a problem with being around you, they aren't running from you. They haven't abandon their responsibilities as a dad. They are capable of co-parenting. They are not confused about what they want and who they want. They make a decision and stick with it.

Your spouse did move away to start a new life yes, but he didn't have to move away to do it. He moved away because he cant bear to see you. The hurt and pain on your face. The thing is no matter where he moves, he knows what he did and it is still eating him up. At night when he is lying down and no where else to run this is when his conscious and morals attack him. He may never express that to you, but it is happening. There is and will be no peace for him until he rights his wrongs. Your H may choose to remain out of sight for years. Its also very possible you could get a call at any given time with him sobbing asking for your forgiveness. Nothing is certain.

Yes, in MLC which is about a depressed person seeking happiness instead of working on themselves internally, they run run run. A person that is choosing to do drugs for the high it gives them, they initially think they are in control they can stop any time they choose to. Eventually after time passes they know they have an addiction problem and they continue to get high or drink because they don't want to stop. At some point the addiction over powers them and they are completely aware this is addiction and they cant live without it and when a loved one tries to intervene they run. They are not ready to face the real work that is involved with getting clean, staying off the drugs, getting a job, and being an adult. That is the same scenario most MLC'er face. Stop the addiction, go home, and try to fix their messed up life or keep drug seeking and running.

You may think MLC is a bunch of BS because you don't understand it, you have never experienced it and I hope you never do. I use to wonder why my sister couldn't just stop doing drugs before she lost her kids, her home, her job, her life, her freedom everything down the toilet and life in shambles. Why would anybody give up everything they have worked so hard for a few moments of getting high? Yet it happens. They lose their teeth, holes in their face, serious health issues, life threatening events and they still will go back out to get high not knowing if that will be the last and they lose their lives. Tell me why anyone would voluntarily do that if addiction is not real?

Addiction and depression are intertwined in MLC. You are thinking about this from your perspective of a betrayed hurt spouse and none of that will help you.