[Thunder]

kikki,

Thank God someone else said that out loud!

When I tell people about my H having hot flashes they look at me like I have 2 heads. 
He definately had them.   

I have also read they can get confusion, irritability, moodiness, bad concentration, sexual problems, forgetfulness and depression.
Mine ticked every one except the sexual (performance) problem.

He still has some concentration and confusion problems but they are much better.

[kikki]

When I tell people about my H having hot flashes they look at me like I have 2 heads. 
He definately had them.   

I have also read they can get confusion, irritability, moodiness, bad concentration, sexual problems, forgetfulness and depression.

Thunder, I saw hot flushes with my MLCer as well.  (amongst other things).
I suspect that a lot of people don't even visually register hot flushes in men, because they are not expecting to see them.

I remember being amazed as a nursing student, listening to a male lecturer who was informing us that PMT was nothing more than women being overly emotional.  Well, we can become overly emotional when our physical symptoms are denied 

For the medical profession to accept in recent years that hormones and hormonal changes and fluctuations have enormous effects on our bodies and minds, it really was a long time coming.
I guess we have to be a bit more patient, waiting for them all to catch up on the science that has been emerging regarding the effects on male bodies and minds.

[Anjae]

Sometimes a spouses MLC will even trigger the other spouse to go into a MLC.
Mysterious stuff.   

There is no mystery here. That was happened to me. It makes sense. All the stress of dealing with a spouse that is already in MLC we need to remember MLC stars before BD), coupled with other factors, is enough to trigger a crisis.

I don't know if menopause is always linked to female MLC. My crisis happened years before any peri-menopause signs showed. Now that I am heading towards menopause, I see no signs of MLC.

I have also read they can get confusion, irritability, moodiness, bad concentration, sexual problems, forgetfulness and depression.

This is what Jed Diamond calls Irritable Male Syndrome. Diamond has also written about male menopause. So, it is not such a secret. Maybe more a case of different names to the same thing.

It does matter what causes MLC. The way of approaching it for research is different if the causes are hormonal (or better chemical, since hormones are chemicals) and/or psychologic.

Doctors tend to be a few years behind scientists and it tends to take them a while to catch up and accept things that are already known on other fields.

[kikki]

I don't know if menopause is always linked to female MLC. My crisis happened years before any peri-menopause signs showed. Now that I am heading towards menopause, I see no signs of MLC.

Your crisis seems to have been a reaction to the stress and impact of your H's severe crisis.
Different catalyst, different age and therefore not mid life as such.

This is what Jed Diamond calls Irritable Male Syndrome. Diamond has also written about male menopause. So, it is not such a secret. Maybe more a case of different names to the same thing.

Not a secret to most of us, but Jed Diamond will be an unknown to most of the world. And most people with new thinking are disparaged by 'the establishment' which seems to have the current power and upper hand.  I don't understand that thinking, but seems to be how most of the world operates and has done so for a long time.

[Anjae]

Your crisis seems to have been a reaction to the stress and impact of your H's severe crisis.
Different catalyst, different age and therefore not mid life as such.

Fair enough, But, then, since he was 36 when he left, Mr J's crisis is also not a midlife one. The trigger for his one was the death of his paternal grandmother, late Spring or early Summer 2005, when he was still 35. At the time, I ddin't notice anything too strange. But as the months went by, he become more agitated, depressed and stressed.

So, what do we call the crisis of people in their early or mid 30's? A life crisis? A life crisis, that, in some cases, lasts well into midlife?

'The establishment' fears the new. Even if, often, the new is not so new. What Jed Diamond says is nothing new. Yet, it seems it is not yet reaching enough people. Maybe the many voices who have been speaking about male depression (and male menopause) will be at last heard.

GP's and other doctors should pay attention, but, they don't seem to be. Or most don't seem to.

In the meantime, we are all, LBS and MLCers, dealing with the consequences of these severe male depressions (regardless of the man's age and what caused it).

One thing I have noticed in Mr J is that, while in crisis, he went from being his normal, well kept self, to a scruffi man. Until mid 2009, he looked the same and had the same care with himself. From them on, it has been an up and down, mostly a down.

The other day, I was keeping paperwork and photos and I come across some Mr J photos (real photos, from before MLC). One of them is from one of his pre MLC depressions. Guess what, he looks the same, and his as ungroomed as he has been since he went downhill in MLC.

[Not Applicable]

kikki,

Thank you.  In the long run it really doesn't matter how or why.  It really doesn't.  Ot doesn't even matter what you call it.
It just happened and all we can really do is accept it and move on.   We can not help them or change anything.

Researching is good for us in the beginning so we learn what is going on and we learn it has nothing to do with it us, other than that all we are doing is needlessly wasting our time.  Putting the focus on them instead of us.

They are not putting time and energy into us.

In my case how does matter. Because my husband's midlife crisis had a specific trigger that was explicitly shared by him and discussed between us and he went into it believing that what he is doing is for OUR benefit because it could solve the perceived problem that triggered it, and I accepted what was happening because he convinced me it was for our benefit, and he went into it not wanting to hurt or humiliate me, this was while he still had some logic and stability in his mind. He believed me to be a kind and devoted wife who "never wronged" him, helped him with anything he asked me to help him with, and he never wanted to leave me. I was his best friend, he trusted me more than anyone. Yes, he said all this after the MLC started but before the replay started. None of this was new, I always knew he felt this way about me, but my point is that after he already knew what his issue was and what he was going to do about it, his feelings for me had NOT changed. He asked me for patience, asked me for space, but asked for it in a kind and polite way and still told me he would be with me forever. Even as he started to fall over the edge he still at one point said to me "WE need this" in a very imploring voice.

Then he just went down the rabbit hole, he won't even use the word WE anymore. A month after he was asking me for patience and space he would suddenly start shouting, "Leave, just leave."  He's become really horrible in his behavior toward me. Cold aloof, almost terrified of me. Very touch and go. Sometimes literally touch and go for a minute. I really don't think he expected he would behave like this with me and perhaps that is part of the reason he is seems so depressed now. He's not getting any highs out of this.

Either he fooled me like he never fooled me before (and believe me I could always tell when he was lying, it's in his eyes and his voice, and he wasn't lying) or his mind is not working properly. But if he really was fooling me, he would have done what he has done behind my back and then one day I would have woken up and he would have moved on with his life and I would be out in the street. Because he could probably have pulled it off, but instead he has been completely transparent in everything. Or the easiest thing for him to have done would be to divorce me, whenever I became too much of a pain in the ass. Divorce would be quite easy for him where we live and with regards to our circumstances. He'd lose nothing except what I might be able to help with in the future. So much easier than it would be for most of you where you live.

So yeah it does matter why. If he had plotted all this in a cold-blooded, methodical manner, do you think I would stay with him for a minute? Of course not. Financially I don't need him. We don't have children that I would want to stay just for them. He has nothing on my head to keep me against my will.

If something snapped in his mind chemically, and his behavior is due to something he can't control, then I am willing to be patient and give him the space he needs for as long as he needs it. But because I truly believe there is something medical underpinning his behavior, I will not leave him because of HIM. If I were to leave him in the future, it would be because I simply could not bear the situation anymore. It will be because of me, if it happens. Because I need to get away for my own health.

I'm here because I love him, I liked my life with him, and I believe once he works his way through this that we will actually have a better life. Yes, I am severely depressed and lonely right now, but the healthy man I used to know is worth it. His wacky behavior now is unacceptable, but I actually have seen some good changes in him as well and I believe they will stay, so who is not to say we will have a better future?

[kikki]

Fair enough, But, then, since he was 36 when he left, Mr J's crisis is also not a midlife one. The trigger for his one was the death of his paternal grandmother, late Spring or early Summer 2005, when he was still 35. At the time, I ddin't notice anything too strange. But as the months went by, he become more agitated, depressed and stressed.

So, what do we call the crisis of people in their early or mid 30's? A life crisis? A life crisis, that, in some cases, lasts well into midlife?

I don't know, but I would guess that the only difference is that whatever a life crisis is, most of our spouses needed the addition of those mid life hormonal changes to throw them completely off balance.  I presume that is the only variable here. We're all dealing with the same devastating effects, no matter their ages.

Changing4Ever.  It's entirely up to you what you choose to do, how you choose to do it, and for how long.  It's also entirely up to you to change your mind in the future as well.
We each have our own experiences and our own unique situations that we are dealing with.
Yes, it mattered a great deal to me too.  I married a good man.  We have a fantastic life together, and a lovely family.  But his extremely explosive crisis has destroyed that, and after 7 long years, I am walking as far away as possible.
You do what you need to do and what you feel is right.  You don't need anyone's blessing to do that.  Just yours.

[Roma]

Hi Anjae,

I would say if yours and Mr J's crisis were not in midlife, and had no childhood issues, it's sounds to me more of some sort of transition. Not a MLC.

Plus you said yours was short right?  Yours was definitely not a MLC.

I tried to write on this last night yet we have a really bad storm here.

You've been fortunate!

[Anjae]

Elegance, lenght does not determine MLC. RCR's husband has a short MLC (short is always short in MLC terms). So did the spouses of other HS members.

For me, chidlhood issues are not the reason for MLC, so the exitence, of not, of those, is not what makes a MLC.

[Thunder]

I believe stayed's H's MLC was pretty short too, wasn't it?  I don't think he had childhood issues either, that I remember.
Not sure what his was from.