[Anjae]

Only trouble is how do you prevent low testosterone?  Make men over 40 get tested every year?

If the problem is testosterone, the tests would have to begin earlier than at 40. Mr J and Hoss (Ready2's husband) were on their mid 30's.

I don't think the problem with all MLCers is testosterone, but see no problem in say, having men from 35 onwars being tested every year.

For me, MLC comes from excessive stress and all that it leads to, including depression. I also don't think MLCers are solving any issues while in MLC.

During my very mild crisis I don't recall solving any issues nor that the crisis has anything to do with issues. What I recall was that the pre Mr J BD months, Bd and the following months were extremely stressful.

I find it possible that a sudden, life altering event may lead a stressed and depressed person into crisis point. Depression does not allow to see things clear. Stress makes it even more confusing. Depressed people often feel there is no other way than to run.

Like Trustandlove I have also noticed that there is more awareness being drawn toward male depression.

[Roma]

The only way to cure this, is after the MLCer heals all their issues after they are emotionally ready to.

There is no magic pill or anything that can do that for them.

Or prevent it from happening in the first place.

[Thunder]

I agree Anjae, the T testing would need to start maybe in their 30's or even their 20's.

It would be a big study so it will probably never happen..in our live time anyway.  They first need to figure out MLC is real.   

[Thunder]

I agree El, some are triggers that start a MLC.  While some occur afterwards.  There are many reasons for an MLC to happen.

Sometimes a spouses MLC will even trigger the other spouse to go into a MLC.
Mysterious stuff.   

[Not Applicable]

I'm not convinced that the trigger and the manifestation are necessarily related.

For my husband, there is a clear and defined and explicit issue that is behind the actions he has taken. He made other excuses, but ultimately there is a specific issue. Of that I am 100% certain.

How he has manifested the MLC is very typical. But what I wonder is did the brain chemistry push him to look at this issue as something he had no choice but to solve. Or did the steps he took to solve this issue push his brain chemistry to be what it is?

I mean think of obsessive-compulsive disorder. OCD has a specific brain issue behind it, but in each person it manifests itself in different behaviors. So maybe my husband's brain chemistry changed and he found an issue to latch on to.

More questions than answers.

[kikki]

More questions than answers.

And that's our problem.  If you read back on any of the brain/research threads, there are many potential pieces of the puzzle, but it would be great if someone would research the big picture.  That's the enormous frustration. 

But you're right T&L, I too have noticed that here in NZ.  A big push in recent years to educated and destigmatise depression and suicide.  That is a very good thing.
Here's hoping it one day extends to the acting out behaviours that we have had to navigate all of these years.

Nearly 7 years into this now, I spend very little time trying to find answers these days.  I'm kind of at the acceptance of the mess phase.  But it took me a long, long time to get there.

[Thunder]

kikki,

Thank you.  In the long run it really doesn't matter how or why.  It really doesn't.  Ot doesn't even matter what you call it.
It just happened and all we can really do is accept it and move on.   We can not help them or change anything.

Researching is good for us in the beginning so we learn what is going on and we learn it has nothing to do with it us, other than that all we are doing is needlessly wasting our time.  Putting the focus on them instead of us.

They are not putting time and energy into us.

[Roma]

Exactly Thunder, I'm with you on the self focus part being what's best for us as the LBS.

We can drive ourselves silly as unscientific LBS's grabbing straws. It won't change a thing in the least or help us (or them) heal faster.

[Lost]

Depending on literature, testosterone levels peak at 25 to 35. So after a certain age levels in all men decline.
Only 20% of men over 60 however have levels considered as ´too low´.
However, there is no clear definition / quantity when levels are considered as ´too low`.

All this is still quite mushy however it is mostly like this with hormones.
Like for female menopause however acceptance is higher, and women know the symptoms and kind of ´expect´ them, knowing some women will suffer more than others also. But if at a certain age symptoms start, we know what to deal with, know the origin as being internal and due to hormones. A bit like with PMS - we still might be irritable and emotional too at certain days but at least with hindsight we ´know the culprit´ and don´t blame our partner. But due to women´s hormonal cycle we are usually more used to identify this, also with menopause (whereas teenage girls still need to learn this). Men are less used to listen to their bodies and the influence they have on their moods, male menopause is quite a new topic so it takes its time. Also women have internalised and accepted that what is most associated with menopause, i.e. no more being able to have children, it is less associated with lower sex drive (also this is also true for a certain percentage) whereas lower testosterone for men is so much linked to sexual performance it will be a difficult subject (even in times of viagra)...

Besides we don´t even yet have an ideal treatment for female menopause yet (hormone replacement might be linked to cancer later etc. ) so it will take quite some time to get a male menopause treatment, men knowing about it and readily and won´t help us LBS now. Except to maybe stabilise returned MLClers?

I do think testosterone plays a role (and for female MLClers maybe menopause) plus several other factors. And they all need to be treated - like if a MLC can be started or enhanced by testosterone, some men might take medication and that might be enough to keep them into transitioning over this difficult age, other more avoidant or more narcisstic personalities or somebody with more FOO (heavy abuse) might not be able to accept they have to take medication, or be more vulnerable and still react the same way.

[kikki]

I agree with you Lost.
Somewhere on these threads is a very informative podcast on hormones. 
I was intrigued to learn that something like 30-40% of men (don't quote me, it's a long time since I listened to it) get one or more of the classic 'female' symptoms of menopause - hot flushes, lack of sleep etc.  That percentage could be well under reported.

The other thing is the effect stress has on testosterone levels.  A sudden stressor, such as the death of a loved one, job loss etc reduces the testosterone levels suddenly and dramatically.  This apparently then has a sudden, negative affect on many body systems, including the brain, causing inflammation and depression and out of character behaviours and thinking (amongst other things - gut health changes etc).

Research has also shown that some but not all people are more susceptible to mental illnesses of all kinds and potentially have less effective coping mechanisms from childhood stress, than others.  Not all.  Some are able to sustain resilience throughout life (? genetics, they are not yet certain).  But in others, set off inflammatory processes and brain changes etc, that last a lifetime.

My sister in law who is both a GP and a jungian analyst said that they think one of the main differences is whether the child has one adult around them that is able to truly listen and empathise.