[1trouble]

Anjae

I agree

Firstly I don't think people in MLC are limerent.....they are two distinct things

AND
infatuation and limerence only lasts 2-3 years, as I don't believe, from conversations I had with my therapist and what I have read about cocaine and infatuation chemicals  that the brain is could cope with any long term sustainable high 

[barbiedoll]

Soo, let me jump into this conversation with great interest. I will say up front that I have the worst migraine ever and have not read thru everything with total focus ( but I will ) . I want to quickly share what my husband did/ said when I made him listen to Joe Beams "why Your Spouse Loves Another etc etc ": Here is his reaction:

1. That is all firetrucking bullsh$t... ! ( very agitated.. surprised me )

2. NEVER felt "limerance ".. never addicted feeling

3 . Over and over ... I felt NOTHING , ZERO, BLANK, NOTHING REGISTERRED, CARED ABOUT ZILCH , COULD NOT THINK , ZERO FORTHOUGHT OR ZERO-AFTER THOUGHT ...

4. if I give him anything to read or listen to about affairs ( he always listens or reads ) .. he will say " is this an ordinary typical affair or a MLC affair "... because they are 2 entirely different things to me " ( and his therapist )

5. his " affair" lasted 9 months ... and he was out of town 60 % of the time . So, as hard as it is to admit, he did not see her a lot , and did not move in with her . However , many weekends spent "together "

6. He says " I understand what happened to me ( 3 years in therapy ) and I did not have your typical affair ... no matter what you say Barbiedoll!. And I am not going to "tell you what YOU want to hear because of something you read ".  I had a complete and total breakdown .. total emotional, mental , physchological breakdown from crap and "programming " from my childhood . I am NOT your " typical firetrucking CHEATER !  ( gets highly worked up )

Lost my train of thought ... coming back to read this later ..

[Anjae]

Hi 1trouble,

Firstly I don't think people in MLC are limerent.....they are two distinct things

I also think they are two different things.

AND
infatuation and limerence only lasts 2-3 years, as I don't believe, from conversations I had with my therapist and what I have read about cocaine and infatuation chemicals  that the brain is could cope with any long term sustainable high

Yes, for Limerance/Infatuation only lasting 2-3 years. As for the brain not being able to sustain a long term high, I don't know.

Mr J and other very high energy MLCers keep looking for new things to provide them with a high. And they have been at it for many, many years (in Mr J's case more than 10 years),

It always amazes me how he manages to sustain his many MLCer high producers. For him, it is always getting into a new djing or similar project. He is always running around Europe, always finding new mates to partake in his MLC activities.

He does not rest, he barely sleeps. It is high, high, high, run, run, run. I get exhausted of write about him and his activities, he does not seem to suffer their consequences.

Well, of course he looks terrible, but he is still standing, and still diving into a new MLC project. His brain has been high for over a decade.

What do you think sustains such lifestyle and does the brain (and body) manage? At a point, logic would say that brain and body cannot cope with such effort. And, yet, here he still is. And Mr J is not the only MLCer who manages it.

Thank you for chime in, Barbie. Very interesting.

I want to quickly share what my husband did/ said when I made him listen to Joe Beams "why Your Spouse Loves Another etc etc ": Here is his reaction:

1. That is all firetrucking bullsh$t... ! ( very agitated.. surprised me )

Somehow, I happen to agree with your husband.

4. if I give him anything to read or listen to about affairs ( he always listens or reads ) .. he will say " is this an ordinary typical affair or a MLC affair "... because they are 2 entirely different things to me " ( and his therapist )

So are they to me. MLC affairs and typical affairs could not be more different.

Hope your migraine improves and you can came back and share/debate more with us.

[barbiedoll]

Just an after thought ... hmmmm

He has also said, she made him "FEEL"  ( see my problem already ), " admired, desired, accepted, validated, appreciated, respected ( puek ) and he "helped her " ( White Knight ... although he cannot remember doing anything for her )

So, how is that "not feeling anything ".   Now that is a good question right there . I shall be asking .

[Anjae]

I think the answers lies in "she made him feel". MLCers are dead inside. OW/OM will make them "feel" = have a high on their low = raise some chemical in their brain.

But it is something that just picks up from inside the depression. Not sure if I am making sense, but in Mr J's letters to OW1 he used those same words. When I read them, all I could see was a very deoresed and sleep deprived man getting his fix.

MLCers tend to be very insecure and OW/OM, MLC friends, etc, provides them with validation. MLCers feel empty, OW/OM, as well as MLC activities, seem to feel the void. It is all false, the MLCer remains as empty, sad and depressed as ever.

Will be looking forward to what your husband has to say about the matter. It is always interesting and good to know what a former MLCer has to say.

[sparklestar]

Barbie - nail on the head! I think MLC affairs are very different hence my questions about it. I don't doubt there are chemicals involved - there are chemicals involved in depression. But it's all about the numbness and the wanting to feel something. These affair partner make them feel something. And that's likely to address whatever it is inside they are lacking. My IC explained it and it makes sense. Someone who is feeling flat or numb inside will push to feel something in any way they can / my h developed a gym addiction and uses cocaine along with increased drinking and then this OW. He was desperate to escape the numbness and the ow totally fed his ego. So very different to a normal 'limerant' affair. My H can't even say ow's name he refers to her as 'that girl' and try's to distance himself from her in conversation it's really weird. He's almost denying it to himself yet he's blatantly with her and can only sheepishly admit that.... Barbie it's so like your H... I do believe however that ow IS limerant I suspect that many are.....

[MoreWillBeRevealed]

Sparklestar, I tried to find your thread but couldn't find it. I am just curious, was your H always an addict/alcoholic? Or, did he start the cocaine at MLC? My STBX has a history of crack addiction but when we meet and the duration of our marriage he was clean and did recovery 12 steps. STBX is dramatically thin and I am convinced using but no one believes me. Others only comment how bad and sickly he looks. STBX used crack the entire time he was with OW 10 years ago. She's supposedly been clean 10 years. It just infuriates me STBX won't admit using and others are cosigning his lies. OW was definitely a drug for him and probably still is.

[Not Applicable]

I think the answers lies in "she made him feel". MLCers are dead inside. OW/OM will make them "feel" = have a high on their low = raise some chemical in their brain.

I won't even go so far as to say it is a "high" but they want the feeling coming from the OW/OM. They don't return the feeling though. It is a one way street.

They may be dead to us in their feelings too now, but inside them somewhere they love us, love going in the direction from them to us, concern for us, caring about us. They aren't going to express it in the same way they used to, but at least in my case I see glimmers of it occasionally, where it is very clear there are no feelings for OW but there are for me.

[1trouble]

[I won't even go so far as to say it is a "high" but they want the feeling coming from the OW/OM. They don't return the feeling though. It is a one way street.

Actually Changing I disagree with this, this maybe your experience but it is not mine and its not what I have seen in a lot of the stories I have read.

Its well documented that my H  had a serious coke problem years ago and when he started getting involved with the OW (which I didn't know about at the time),  I thought he was back on coke because the way he was behaving was exactly the same.
He was hyper, not eating, not sleeping, manic sometimes even, his eyes were darting all over the place and he was high....that's why I coined the phrase OW was cocaine with a pulse.
Because in the beginning she was certainly giving him the same high.

Unlike some my H never articulated any sort of feelings for her, he never said he loved her and even when he left to go to her he called her 'some soppy cow from work'
but still said he 'had to go' because there was a pull toward her, which is similar to how coke was to him a long time ago....

He didn't want the 'feeling' he needed the 'high' and the reason he needed the 'high' was without it he was completely dead inside.
He told my sister the OW 'makes him feel good' that's about the only thing he has ever said about her..

OW has BP and if you know anything about the seduction of these types the relationship is all drama and they absolutely idealise, nothing is too much trouble and they do everything for the their AP's in the beginning and then when they think the AP is hooked the power game changes to everything being about them and when its not they 'withdraw' the attention, but to my H (who is also a people pleaser) he needed that attention so he would do anything to get the high back and her attention (at least in the beginning) and so in my case  within months of leaving, he had got a mortgage with her, got covered in tattoos of her name, stopped paying me any money or contacting me and his family and had started divorce ....

However, as RCR writes things change over time and last time he mentioned her (in November) he said 'I don't care about "that girl" and she doesn't care about me" but for now he is still there, though he is making more regular contact with me and when I saw him 2 weeks ago, he started to offer to do things round the house..   
They never go out anywhere, he still works very very long hours and has been since before he left.  She has no friends, doesnt even see her ow children.  H earns the money she spends it (or badges it away from him). On the rare occasions he does mention her, he says they have nothing in common, he hates the things she watches on TV, has no respect of interest in her and has told me throughout this he loves me but he still needs to be there for now anyway

So I don't believe its a one way street for these relationships and I definitely know its NOT love of any kind because they are not capable of feeling anything, but the AP has given them some sort of chemical boost or high which for a little while they (the MLC'er) see as the answer to everything and their numbness

[Not Applicable]

My husband did for a brief time seem to be seeking a high. a very brief time, but it wasn't his motivation from the beginning nor is it his motivation now. What he is seeking, he hasn't gotten yet and may never get it from her, in which case he will dump her and she even knows that. I am almost 100% certain that is true. Like your husband, I know he loves me and that our relationship is solid in the long run.

However, his feelings about her are exactly as you describe your husband's but he has to be there now too. I don't see that due to a high though. For my husband I think it was because he was desperate, he needed SOMEONE and thought NO ONE would be interested, but she was willing but she had her conditions, one of which was for him to keep a distance from me. His lack of self-worth as a partner allowed her to manipulate him in that regard as it was her or no one in his mind.