[Did your MLC'er suffer from childhood abuse (physically, emotionally or other)?]

Did your MLC'er suffer from childhood abuse (physically, emotionally or other)?

Yes

65 (70.7%)

No

17 (18.5%)

Don't Know

10 (10.9%)

Total Members Voted: 92

[Jackolar12]

Hi Brenross, the steroids make him feel good about himself and boosts the flagging ego. Exercise in general boosts serotonin  the feel good factor hormone. If he’s taking other substances like testosterone it may be an attempt to rectify his low testosterone levels.

The problem with steroids is the amount used and frequency of use and rest periods in between. Steroids taken in excess can weaken the heart.Testosterone and anabolic steroids also affect the central nervous system. The locations in the brain where they have effects are closely connected to the centers that adjust mood, sexuality and aggressiveness.

Around 20 to 30 percent of those who abuse testosterone and anabolic steroids have mood disorders that meet the criteria of psychiatric disease classification, such as depression, anxiety and decreases in cognitive abilities which many Mlcers display.

Around 30 percent who use excessive doses of testosterone and anabolic steroids are aggressive, hostile and irritated during the intake period. These hormones reduce impulse control and contribute to previously stable individuals becoming violent following hormone consumption which could be viewed as monstering in some.

Hope this helps
Jackolar 12

[Ready2Transform]

My gut instinct, and the evidence of my then h's behaviour, suggested to me that the SSRI he was on - bc his crippling depression and anxiety did make him go to see a psychiatrist initiallly - probably tamped the symptoms down enough to stop him killing himself. But it also left him an emotional zombie who was almost addicted to doing what his psychiatrist said and believing he would be on SSRIs for the rest of his life bc the psychiatrist said so.

My instinct after several months was that something was missing from the picture...and then boom, BD and off to the wacky races. Logic told me that he was still unrecognisable, still obviously broken if functional and still nothing like the person he had been before. That if he had lived well without medication for almost two decades, it was logical to assume that after a given period, he could do so again. That the psychiatrist had not known him before...it was very frustrating actually to see rationally from the outside that something about his treatment was obviously not working after more than a year, dang more than two years actually, to know that his behaviour was not normal or like him but no one would listen to me at all. Did the SSRI make it worse? Did he need a mood stabiliser? Was he lying to his psychiatrist? Did ow replace medication? Is he still medicated to the eyeballs? No idea.

I have no idea what the 'answer' was, or what was missing...just that rationally to me I saw him get more and more extreme and bonkers not less...so something wasn't right. But I had to accept that there was simply nothing at all that I could do about it, that as much as I wanted to support his recovery regardless of whether our m made it or not, everyone else including him saw my voice as irrelevant.

It was one of the most painful things to accept actually after being part of a loving team for almost two decades. That there was nothing I could do and that I was being judged poorly for even wanting to.

I don't think there's ever been a post I could relate so much to. I can still remember laying in a tub weeping in sheer terror that these drugs might have caused brain damage that could not be repaired. I still don't know the total depth of the role they played, but there's comfort in the acceptance of it all now that has replaced the fear. Big hugs to you Treasur for living through it too.

[Ready2Transform]

Several people have mentioned you can't study MLC because no MLCer would willingly submit to medical exams for it.

I think the way it might be eventually identified would be in some sort of longitudinal study where they follow kids from childhood to old age and have some sort of record of the abuse they suffered as children as part of that. And then they would notice higher divorce rates, mental issues, whatever, in middle age, in those children who suffered abuse. There may already be studies that show that but the only way it really think it is something you can't simply study in isolation AFTER it hits.

Even if you think the issue is hormones, you would need a before and after measurement of hormone levels in the individual to know if that really was a factor. Again, only in an ongoing longitudinal study are you going to get that kind of information as a byproduct.

I know there are a few studies like this in existence but who knows whether they have collected the kind of data that could be mined for this.

Nodding. And even if there was a way to by chance have the "before" hormone levels, from what I understand, "normal" is sort of a subjective range but will be specific to each individual. So what might be "low testosterone" in one person won't be a red flag in another. It would take a big swing to show any changes, and as you say, that's usually when they will probably shun doctors anyway. Ten or twenty years down the road, who knows, maybe the best evidence of anything will be the archives of our anecdotal stories, where more parallels can be drawn. We're the only willing test subjects!

[Anjae]

But since not all MLCers were abused and not all abused people have MLC, I am not sure that would lead to any conclusions.

Of course if the problem is hormones one would need a before, during and after measurement. However, for those who have been diagnosed with low (or high) hormonal levels, and that includes thyroid, it is a factor to have in consideration.

Treasur, if you husband had a psychiatrist and something was not working after one of two years the psychiatrist either wasn't very good or didn't had a clue. I think anti-anxiety meds work better for MLCers than SSRIs. Pretty much all the stories that involve a MLCer and SSRIs are identical, things got worst. I am talking before the MLCer hitting rock bottom/liminality.

[Jackolar12]

Modern technology that monitors the brain centres and activities such as the amygdala could be used to see the effect of hormones during normal menses and compared to brain activity during the perimenopause to give a baseline average among a group of mixed ages and ethnicities.

A thematic analysis could be carried out to identify commonalities and the group split into 3. Hormone treatment could be introduced to a control group, a placebo hormone to the next and the last group given educational knowledge and coaching surrounding the effects of menses and menopause.

After the experiment individual qualitative interviews could be taken from each participant and compared to the original thematic analysis to contrast and compare and look for changes among the groups. One theme I would predict is the amount of individuals who fear the menopause onset after dealing with the menses. It would be interesting to compare the percentages with fears to the percentages of MLC occurrences in women that we see on this board. As this might be a contributing factor leading to MLC in females

The males are going to be more problematic due to the absence of menses.

[strawberry]

There does seem to be some growing consensus about mid life transition, but even the books I’ve read on that dismiss the notion of full blown crisis, while describing the very same crisis and just calling it a rough transition.  They also seemed in favor of claiming the marriages destroyed weren’t all that good which leads me to believe they are taking the word of the one in crisis while they are in crisis.  That’s pretty faulty science.

[Anjae]

Most MLCers seem to be men and male MLCers seem to cause the most damage. Starting with man may make more sense for an hormonal test. But I am not found or people being guinea pigs and either having all their live monotorized or women to have to be monitorized for years on end.

There is a full blown crisis. We're dealing with it. Rough transition is a nicer name. The marriages destroyed weren't all that good. It does sound like they were listening to the MLCer.

But say some, or even, most marriages weren't that good. They were good enough until MLC come knocking on the door.

[Jackolar12]

Yes Anjae, I agree ethical approval may be difficult but there must have been studies related to the introduction of HRT. It’s how to package it for males to get a base line for somewhere to start. I did a survey on surveymonkey on the dark triad of personality disorders and infidelity. It took me over 6 months and many tweeks to get it past ethical approval and there was some significance to the results.

 Many Mlcers exhibit the dark triad personality, narcissism,histrionic and psychopathy. I was focusing on designing a security protocol to give advanced warning of dark triad ( predatory) characteristics in members to potential daters on dating sites.

My moneys on fluctuating hormones causing chemical imbalance  in people with weak self-esteem and poor coping methods to make the perfect storm for MLC. Foo issues may just be a regression during this storm to past events and coping strategies. Liminality could be when hormones are at the tipping point of settling down and the awakening occurs when the chemicals start to ebb away and the person starts to think like they used to.

If they come back half baked and yo-yo back and fore it’s because their still pumped up with hormones and can’t think straight. A lot like their on drugs. They don’t care for anyone but them selves, shun former commitments, upset everyone,steal to get their next fix and can’t be trusted.

[Anjae]

Wouldn't the low self esteem come from the hormonal situation and/pr? As for poor coping mechanisms that doesn't apply to many real life MLCers I know. On the other hand, there is no shortage of people with poor coping mechanisms that never have a MLC.

Bren question remains answared. We don't know why MLC is not recognised by the health/medical community and in society. Yet, everyone on HS is living, or lived, with its consequences. Therefore something exists. We didn't all imagine it.

I would say MLC is more bipolar/borderline than histrionic. However, MLCers, unless it was already present, do no have a personality disorder. It was not there before and it gone after MLC.

Hormones are chemicals. It they are unbalanced there is already chemical imbalance. If there are FOO issues at play most MCLers are not aware of it and certainly not during the deepth of the crisis.

Hormones at the tipping point of settling down bringing Liminality. Could be. But we don't know. And Liminality does not equal end of distress. It still exists in Rebirth.

I would bet on adrenaline and cortisol playing a large part in the mess for High Energy MLCers. Wallowers seem to lack adrenaline.

If the matter is hormonal, then it can be solved and there is no need for everyone to be going through this.

[Jackolar12]

Low self esteem might get worse or increase with hormone fluctuations but If it’s low it could add to their depression. There’s a resounding narcissistic theme of superiority in their actions when they completely bulldoze others without a backwards glance. Bipolar hyper sexuality could be in some but I bet there’s comorbidity running through the entire issue of MLC with other personality types. Borderlines are in general very loving but with a go away don’t leave me theme which could be boomeranging also they demonstrate histrionic behaviours and fantasise about their tru wuv.

They act out of character and their behaviour impacts others drastically in many cases, I would think this could be viewed as a disorder and could have been suppressed in the psyche or just symptomatic of their current mental health. Their disconnect and vanishing from a previously stable relationship could be viewed as psychotic. In short there are many explanations surrounding MLC which is why it hasn’t been acknowledged by the academics and so cannot be categorised.

All that we know for sure is they weren’t like this when we met them and their behaviours are out of character and socially unacceptable. I don’t think it’s down to alien interventions but I do think fluctuating hormones are major player with a vast majority of people in midlife and is a likely cause of some transitions that turn into crises.