[Mae]

Four times Stayed?  Yep as I said 'horrifying' and yet you persisted and here you are now helping out us newbies.

please just know that depressed people, be they are having an MLC or not....LIE!

I have NEVER had the sense that my H has ever lied to me in a depressive state or otherwise....in fact he has kind of been brutally honest in his depressive state over what he is feeling which has hurt no end to hear. That's the one thing I have always counted on (over 20 years of being married to the guy) that he will be honest with me. If I think I won't like the answer then I don't ask the question. His honesty has been the ONE constant through the depressive cycles and when he is NOT depressed.  I only now realize what a GIFT that is......I have so much to ask him if and when he comes through this cycle. Can he lie? Yes...he's admitted to doing it to get out of things, like ringing in sick when he's not, or making up an excuse to not attend an outing BUT never with me as far as I know or can recall.

[Mae]

Haven't updated my thread in a few days. I have been struggling with contact again with my H....having contact makes me want MORE and when there is little to no contact I tend to spiral down to the point where I had a really bad night on Friday.  We had a pleasant conversation on Wednesday or it might have even been Tuesday last week and then a single text on Friday followed by no contact over the weekend and a text contact on Monday. In between I don't know what he is doing or thinking. I let him control the contact but actually this is so not working for me, I either want absolutely no contact or a phone call every day, all or nothing.

Over the weekend once I got past Friday night I actually ended up having a good one. I expected H would make contact via text on Monday and he did. My response was very short. He sent me an email today forwarding me a household statement and put on it 'love you'....I didn't respond. He sent me another text....'hey, how r you?'.....it was a couple of hours later before I saw it and thought I would ask him to ring me so I could sort through this issue of sporadic contact from him. He called me before I could send it. I could tell in his voice that he was 'shaky' and 'emotional'. I told him I needed to discuss contact with him......and I could tell from his response he was preparing himself for 'no contact' from me.....I told him I needed either a phone call every day or if he preferred I could do 'no contact. He said he didn't contact me everyday because he thought I didn't want too much contact but that he would love to talk with me every day.

He was also at 'the love pad' his move-in date is tomorrow. He called me because he's scared and panicky.....and I tried to get to the source of his fear, was it his fear of being 'alone'? He tried to explain....but didn't quite have the words. I think from what I could discern is that the reality of the apartment makes the separation far more immediate in his mind (I guess sleeping on BF's couch for two months was somehow different?) Anyway it sounds as though he was close to a full blown panic attack on the eve of his moving in. He has to sort out a bed and a few other bits and pieces so he won't be moving in until the weekend when he has time. The stark reality of being fully alone and separated from his family hit him square in the heart....never mind that he chose this path.

I told him it's been two months....his response 'wow has it been that long?' to which I responded yes, yes it has. (Barely a drop in the ocean compared to others here I know who have been separated for months and years)....this is the longest he has ever been away.

He talked about getting a camp bed so S18 or D14 could stayover. Er....our son lives in a student residence in the same city as H...he has a bed....why would he want to stayover on a camp bed? D14 would never consider staying over with her dad.......I was loathe to dash his dreams about that one....so I just replied 'hmmmmm'. He suggested I come down and stay when I get back from my cruise.....an invitation I accepted. We didn't talk timelines but I am thinking maybe two-three months and he will look to come home....I'm not sure either of us will be ready and I've set myself a minimum of six months which takes us to September....will we be able to hold out for that long? Possibly if we take our time in reconnecting.

He also wanted to see us this weekend, I suggested he come down to watch D14's first netball game on Saturday, that way he could see both of us.

He is really missing us......that's dreadfully obvious and I am missing him.....I can't speak for D14...I know in my heart she doesn't miss him....she's closed her heart against him and really who could blame her. She was a vulnerable 11 year old when he left the first time and she's never forgiven him.

Although I am missing H....there are aspects to being alone that I really enjoy and I know many on here will get this. More closet and drawer space for one. I like being able to do almost anything I want, when I want without having to take anyone else into consideration. I like how I am much more 'open' and 'receptive' to people in general....before I was very closed off to friendships in general because I just didn't feel I had the time, H was always my priority. When I talk to people I really listen to them, I smile more at them and now I look for opportunities to engage with people around me. I feel as though I am blossoming in many ways. I hardly cook anymore.....sorry D14....(I'm a great mama in all other respects!)

I know in many ways that contact with H is possibly hindering my own healing and discovery of Mae but I feel I'm still making progress in that area. In this crappy situation can I have the best of both worlds?

[LearningIamOk]

Mae, I am following along. I am not feeling well tonight, but I wanted you to know that I am still with you. I like that you are seeing the benefits of being by yourself and you are not giving in to the needs of others. Also sorry to D14.  Keep putting yourself first and things will settle down.

[Mae]

Learning....I hope you get better soon and thanks for dropping in on me.

[Mae]

We had the first of the daily check-in phone calls today.

My H is struggling with moving into his rental apartment, he says all he wants to do is give his notice and come home. He is missing home and his family very much. He said he is going to give notice in two weeks, which would make it five weeks.....way too soon for me. I said we could talk about it when he gets back from his short trip away at the end of May. He sounds good....he sounds normal. He sounds like his head is better. We'll see though, it was not that long ago when being with us for two hours was too much contact and he started having some sort of anxiety attack. It was not that long ago when he said he couldn't envisage being married for the next 30 years. It was not that long ago when he said he wasn't in love with me....what the heck does that mean anyway. I think I need to start a discussion thread asking this very question. It wasn't that long ago when he told me he just wanted to be alone.....you guys know the script.

I'm not going to be caught out again though. I want to take this slowly plus I still need to do a whole lot of work on me and now I feel the pressure of time again.

I have done this whole routine three times now.......and I have learnt a few things over that time.

[LearningIamOk]

Mae, don't relent. If you are uncomfortable having him return, don't do it. There are consequences to actions. He is learning things the hard way. How many times can you do this to someone and EXPECT  that they will take you right back at your request?

I think all of your misgivings are extremely valid. You need more than his word on this. He doesn't seem to know his own mind. What an understatement by me about an MLCer. 

[Mae]

I hear you LIAOK!

Do I really want to be going through all this again in another years time?

So peeps I really need help here. If we can't rely on their words......(and I know I can't....it's not lying per say for me, it's just as you said Learning, they don't know their own minds or their minds are changing from day to day, week to week) what ACTIONS should I be looking for that demonstrate he may be ready to come home?

Two actions he is doing are:

1. Counselling
2. Meds

Although these two do not demonstrate he may be ready to reconcile, they are an indication he is seeking to address his depression.

Perhaps I am looking at this all wrong as well......perhaps I should be looking at it from the point of view of when I feel ready to have him home? I don't think I've grasped who Mae is yet.....she is darn elusive. Now I feel as though I'm the one in the oven simmering away and not done yet. I owe it to myself and to my future relationship with H to keep working on me and this is much better done when H is not around.

Why is it that I feel as though this 'gift' of time has suddenly been repealed and now I feel pressure? I don't think I have used the time I had unwisely.....just that I now seem to be on a 'time limit'.

Learning I think you are right, he needs to feel more consequences. He hasn't even moved into the rental and he is asking to come back.

Ok I have said to myself six months....two months of that has gone. So I have four months left. We are going to have a fuller discussion when I get back from my short holiday. Holiday is good......it will give me some time and space to think about what actions I need for him to show me he is ready to come home. Unfortunately I won't have the support of the board while I am away.

My cruise holiday is nearly here. I have a ton of things to do before that and packing is the last thing. I need to get the house all sorted and tidied and the outside as well. It's Thursday today which means I need to have a huge cleaning spree over the next few days.

[LearningIamOk]

Mae, no need to feel pressure. If you are feeling pressured, then maybe 6 months is too soon for a definite return. Why not decide that at 6 months you will revisit the issues and then decide if you need more time. You are in the driver's seat now. It is YOU who holds the power whether or not he returns.

As far as signs that he is ready to return, you will have to do that all on your own. You know your H, and you know your limits and wants. Trust your gut. Put your Ruby slippers on and know that you have had the power all along.

[Mae]

Mae, no need to feel pressure. If you are feeling pressured, then maybe 6 months is too soon for a definite return. Why not decide that at 6 months you will revisit the issues and then decide if you need more time. You are in the driver's seat now. It is YOU who holds the power whether or not he returns.

As far as signs that he is ready to return, you will have to do that all on your own. You know your H, and you know your limits and wants. Trust your gut. Put your Ruby slippers on and know that you have had the power all along.

I think I am putting pressure on ME....mirror work is hard and for me some of the best mirror work is done when I'm not even looking or trying to do it....it just comes as I go about living my life independently, so when I start putting the time frame around it I get anxious that it's not going to happen.

If I am honest with myself I could not hold out for six months and then revisit the issue. I'll go off and enjoy my holiday and think about putting together a plan of the changes I want to see in H and how I envisage our future relationship before I allow H to return home.....it's funny how NOW I have the power. At BD I pretzeled myself so much I could have applied for contortionist of the year so that my H wouldn't leave. He did anyway....couldn't get out of there fast enough.....and now he wants a fast-track home again.....I don't think so. I remember his business like very short emails to me after BD.....brisk, no emotion, telling me he knew his emails were like that but that he didn't have anything else to say....now he wants me to talk to him for ages over the phone. Just his anxiety over moving into the apartment shows me clearly he is not ready to come home, if he can spend two months sharing his life with some other family while we are abandoned he can damn well spend at least two months on his own stewing in his own juice.

[LearningIamOk]

If I am honest with myself I could not hold out for six months and then revisit the issue.

There, see? You already know partly how to deal with this.

Just his anxiety over moving into the apartment shows me clearly he is not ready to come home, if he can spend two months sharing his life with some other family while we are abandoned he can damn well spend at least two months on his own stewing in his own juice.

Again, you know your H. You understand that he is not ready to return. And letting him feel the consequences of his actions is a very good thing. If we keep putting out that pillow for them to land safely on, they learn nothing.