[Songanddance]

The statistics on any MLCer's return are sketchy and this forum is one of the few where evidence to support any statistics are available.

It isn't true that Ws are more likely to return but there seems to be increasing suggestions that the tunnel may be a little shorter for Ws rather than Hs.    The problem is that we have no idea where they are in the tunnel and for how long until they are well and truly out of it.

RCR is clear that the liminality phase is where the MLCer does most reflecting and makes the decision to return or leave the marriage/relationship assuming that there has been no divorce up to that point.  Liminality can take years to arrive at.  Not only that the LBSer may not want the MLCer back. 

It is a crap shoot - but no relationship or marriage can truly begin to work again until both the MLCer and LBS are healed - no matter how long it takes.

[Keep believing]

I thought the fact that if you are d or not it doesnt much matter If they decide to return .

[Thunder]

Serenity, I believe a lot of these MLCer's have low T.  I think that is exactly what my H's problem was.
I told you, mine even had hot flashes.  Medication can be very helpful but most of them don't take it.  Nothing wrong with them, ya know.   

As far as the test for low T, from what I've read there is a specific test to find out, but the problem is most doctors just do the general testing, which shows they are in the normal range.  I can't remember what they called it but it is not just the routine test.

Gman, from everything I've read over the years I was under the same understanding, that women come back less ofter then men.

Now please no 2x4 guys know I love and respect every single one of you, but I do feel women generally can make single work better than men.  I don't know if it's the fact that the majority of them have been the caregivers and more able to take care of themselves.  In an emotional way, plus they tend to have a bigger support group with other women.  It does seem like men need women more than women need men.  Sorry, guys I just do believe that.
Plus out of the 4 groups of people it has been reported that the 2 happiest groups of people are single women and married men.  Not my test.  ha ha

KB, yes I think the spouse can come back even after a D.

[serenity]

I personally know a female MLCer who returned but she was mostly a clinger!

But I also know one that didn't so it really varies. I don't believe a D makes any difference as to whether they return or not.

I did send the information about low testosterone to my H and he said he'd been looking into things for himself but didn't think that was 'his' problem. He told me he looks at my photographs everyday so he thinks he's fine! We are just over 7 years since BD!!

X

[gman242]

Thunder, see, I think it'd be the other way around.. Guys would have more enablers around that would keep them out in lala land and support their single lives. IMH experience, there are always more "bro" types around that want to get you out for a beer because "it's what you need" then women. The "girls night out" types are a smaller group then the "bro" types, at least I think so.

But at the same time, wouldn't a wife feel like she had done everything for everyone and turn around not want to abandon the kids they put so much time and effort into?

But if nobody comes back, they aren't in a MLC.. right? They're a WAS. Or they bounced around for a while and went to another track.

I know my W isn't typical.. she was the controller, the fixer, but .. she's also the male in the relationship and I'm the female. I'm the one with the big support network. My closest friend is my old boss from my last job and she's been nothing but support. My mom, my sister, the lady I am going to see tonight, I used to rent a room from and I'm good friends with her and her husband. All my good, close friends are women. I have guy friends, but I don't enjoy the relationships as deeply as I do with my women friends. Platonic friendships work for me because I end up being just another "girl friend".

W? she has no one.. especially not after what she did, the lies etc. I'd think too the LBS has more of a support group rather than the MLC spouse. I could see a WAW having a support group, but not an MLC one.. people are bound to see through the lies, the destruction etc.

I'm not disagreeing thunder.. maybe there are more WAWs than MLC Ws than WAH vs MLC hs.. in reality..

[1phoenix]

Gman,

Sorry to say (guess having a bad day here), but does it matter?  If you have love for them, you will be there, more than likely, to pick up the pieces when they return. If you harden your heart, that door is closed.

So if they are a MLCer or an abandoner or an adulterer or just an a$$hat, does it matter?  They are yours. They are yours to decide if you want them home. No one else.

And even if there is no return, that does not negate the love you have, if you have it. Love does not just disappear if it is real and true.

[gman242]

1phoneix, I don't disagree with you at all..

I just wanted to discuss what I saw as a contradiction in what I've seen on various forums about the return rates of women. As I mention, some people think they get through it faster and are more likely to return home than men and some see it the other way around.

The LBS wasn't a factor here. Even the discussion between Thunder and I shows how much of a disparity there is in viewpoints.

I think for all of us, the LBS will always love their spouse and they will be here to pick up the pieces. Or even if they aren't, they will offer help and support. But sometimes too much damage is done and despite the love the LBS has, they have to protect themselves from abuse.

But no, love never disappears, we suddenly don't hate our spouses. We were married for a reason, we stayed married for a reason. People who don't want to be together aren't. I think maybe it's a question of how close we will allow them to come to us, for our own protection, but that's based on the MLCs intentions and behavior, not the feelings of the LBS.

[1phoenix]

Gman,

Bad day here.  Having a statistics can show whatever you want moment.  SORRY. 

Enjoy the discussion.

[gman242]

I've taken three stats classes along with an entire course in generating tests, questionnaires and surveys. The biggest issue here is what many people have noted.. it's all anecdotal evidence and that's already a form of bias in itself, it's completely voluntary, as is with taking or filling out any kind of survey. Most people who volunteer are biased, simply because they feel strongly enough to answer. So that automatically biases the responses to  being bi modal or having a heavy skew towards outliers. Reason being, the only people who reported on how their relationship turned out are those who felt strongly enough to come back and tell us. There's also no accounting for people like rose or never say never who are stuck in the middle currently.

I get stats  If you wanted to look at it from the perspective, that's what we see on the forum. They come back or they don't. We simply don't have enough data to increase the reliability of the results. Not to mention it's a simple yes no question and we aren't accounting for other variables / situations. So yes, a skewed or bi modal curve is what I would expect from such a large amount of bias. 

Sorry you're having a bad day! I don't disagree with you at all! And stats aren't perfect, there is also researcher bias and at the end of the day, it's just a best guess..

[nah]

We will never get real statistics that mean anything.

People who have been through it and done rarely want to keep rehashing the past.