[Which LBS Stage do you think you are mostly at now? (pick main one)]

Which LBS Stage do you think you are mostly at now? (pick main one)

Denial (shock, confusion)

1 (1.7%)

Bargaining (trying to figure out why, planning, adjusting)

1 (1.7%)

Anger (fear, resentment)

3 (5.1%)

Depression (despair, exhaustion)

13 (22%)

Acceptance (detachment, calm, control)

33 (55.9%)

Renewal

8 (13.6%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Voting closed: October 27, 2017, 04:41:15 AM

[Songanddance]

If you read HB carefully, you will see where she repeatedly talks about our role in helping them to grow up

There is no denying the usefulness of HB's posts and past threads.  However I advise caution against using her comments as gospel.  HB is accurate in many ways but I find her comments about LBS's helping the MLCer to " grow up" as singularly unhelpful and patronising.

No expectations is referred to communication with the MLCer especially if OW is in play. It means that every time an MLCer contacts the LBS and is "nice" or "normal" it helps the LBSer to stay detached and to not read too much into any form of communication as far as their mindset or relationship is concerned and when they are in replay especially.

It does not mean that you never have any expectations - that is impossible but by learning not to expect things that would be "difficult" for an MLCer - that way lies detachment.
For example most if not, all MLCers who return admittedly return "half cooked"  The "no expectations" rule helps the LBSer not to treat the R as though all is now well and place normal conventional expectations upon them.  It is important if reconnection is to follow its course to reconciliation that the LBS still stands back, places no unrealistic expectations upon the MLCer and gives them the space to make the choice to return to the marriage and to learn that they have to do the work.
If the LBSer is not detached when the MLCer returns home (assuming half cooked) then expectations become an over-riding control mechanism and the MLCer either runs again or runs for good!

This is what is meant by no expectations. 

Of course if the MLCer really wants back in and starts to do the work then the LBS is perfectly entitled to set the boundaries and expectations.  The LBS hopefully by then is whole enough to both live with and without the MLCer.

[Treasur]

I'm not a fan of the idea that the LBS plays a part in the MLCer 'growing up" either - sounds like a fixer alert to me and the exact opposite of the idea that it is their process. I get the principle that MLC is a process of maturation, of evolving to address 'unfinished' business in the MLCer's emotional development though.

On expectations, maybe it would be more accurate to say 'none of the old expectations' apply in MLC! And there is a risk of being hurt or confused if you either apply the old familiar ones or try to guess MLC script ones in advance either because our spouses can cycle so much. Of course in any normal healthy relationship, especially a long-standing one, we have expectations of each other and as individuals we have our own boundaries.

[Not Applicable]

HB for me has been the best source of advice, hands down.

In reflection, I let my H act too childish throughout our marriage. I live with my MIL now for two years, and I know how my FIL treated him and her. She will try to stop his more extreme behavior but she doesn't expect him to act like a respectful adult either in his day-to-day interactions and frankly that is where she failed him and I really have developed a bad opinion of her parenting through all this.

I'm not mothering him, but I take a timeout from him and refuse to interact with him when he is behaving badly, whether it is toward me or anyone else. I should have done this years ago. He did learn how to act adult but it took a long time over the years and the MLC has been a relapse.

[Treasur]

The underpinning of this forum and the DB one is based on Solution-Focused Therapy. Because in my day job I'm an executive coach, I've taken a look to see how it might help me. More info here https://www.sagepub.com/sites/default/files/upm-binaries/41972_9780857028907.pdf

The first thing that struck me is about defining the 'problem', or just picking one to work on. I think most of us start with 'I want MLC to go away' or 'I want my spouse back to normal' or 'I want my spouse to do x'. But of course we can't 'fix' something not in our control, so we're on a hiding to nothing with that and it feeds our fear and feelings of helplessness.

The second thing is that the problem, or the priority problem, often changes as we work through the LBS stages and as we need to respond to new events.

So, as an experiment - if you want to play - I'm going to ask you WHAT IS YOUR BIGGEST PROBLEM RIGHT NOW that you want to find a solution for? And remember, it is about a problem that your action can change in some way, things you can control. So, I can't make my STBXH talk to me, but I could decide that I have things I need to voice and figure out how/who/where/when will make that better for me.

Try and ignore why - just aim for a short factual sentence that says 'Right now, my biggest problem I'd like to tackle is.....'

I'll have a think too and come back and post mine, and maybe we can learn Solution-Focused Action together? Who wants to join in?

[Treasur]

Right now, my biggest problem is..... how to build a different life when I liked a lot of the old one.

[waiting4]

Right Now My Biggest Problem Is......Keeping a positive outlook with my situation ..

[Anjae]

No expectations is referred to communication with the MLCer especially if OW is in play. It means that every time an MLCer contacts the LBS and is "nice" or "normal" it helps the LBSer to stay detached and to not read too much into any form of communication as far as their mindset or relationship is concerned and when they are in replay especially.

This is the real meaning of No Expectations, but it is not how it is often, if not most times, used around here. No Expectations is used to pretty much anything, pre, during and after MLC.

We can't help the MLCer to "grow up". The MLCer has to do that alone.

Right now, my biggest problem is.....  Nothing.

[Thunder]

No Goner, it's not mothering him.  Mothering them is treating them like a child.  They are adults.
It's about setting person boundaries that RCR talks about.

If you don't like how their acting, what ever that action is, you set the boundary that you will not interact with them.
It's up to you to let them know what you will accept and what you won't. 

If this helps them grow up, fine.  If not well at least you don't have to tolerate their unpleasant actions.
Walk away and ignore them.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

I started seeing a therapist a few months after BD because I needed help figuring out how to survive my wife's MLC. My goal hasn't changed. I've learned along the way that Little MBIB doesn't share that goal. So I guess you might say part of my goal is persuading Little MBIB to share my goal. That's what I'm working on now with my therapist.

[Treasur]

Anyone else want to play before I pose the next question to help us unpick the 'big' problem?